Can't Eat Oysters Or Liver?

[wealthofwisdom]

Can you do canned smoked oysters? I find those taste pretty good.

I'm with you on liver though. I've tried for literally a decade with every single recommended recipe and I gag every time. I just accepted that I cannot eat liver. I will not go near it again. People are wrong when they tell you that they have a recipe that hides the flavor. Just accept that you can't eat it. Resorting to liver pills is probably a more realistic option.

Well I think most people think most seafood taste pretty good. I am an anomaly here. It has nothing to do with it actually tasting good. I think lobster fresh out of the Atlantic ocean in Maine probably tastes delicious, but I couldn't swallow even a pill-size bite of it (had to spit it immediately back out on my plate). This has nothing to do with anything actually tasting good. I'm sure it's all delicious. My brain is just really weird with seafood.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I wonder how much a psychological (or other adapted/inherited) barrier(s) plays a role in cuisine or food choices in people. Perhaps the possible focus on the grossness or "exotic" aspect of eating some things at the source rather than hoping for a shortcut to the same end result is a better approach -- but if you can't get yourself to eat it you probably should not stressfully force yourself to do so in an unproductive way.

Simply I hear people scoff or diss foods because "it is so and so" or "this food" and that is it -- won't it eat/can't eat it for that reason or because it is "X" thing with no other reasoning.

People sometimes even convince themselves things are bad without even knowing much of the things they actually are against.

When I first tried liver I was not squeamish over it -- usually do not have preconceptions over what I eat being "this" or "that." I did not gag and have never really had an offensive response to meats or most "natural" foods this way (wine would be the only one of few things that make me get to this point which I know is likely not psychological in my case). Pretty sure that some foods -- like organ meats for example -- are considered more "gross" than muscle meats usually. But beyond a psychological measure I don't know how much there'd really be a gag reflex against something solely on the basis of it being from a certain part of an animal or etc. unless some artificial taste or flavoring is factored in to a certain degree/extent. Some things probably have repulsive taste to some and not others I suppose, but not sure how "natural" the dissing or innate rejecting of one thing and/or favoring of another by developed habit can be.

Maybe we underestimate psychological or "conditioning" effects are regarding food choices and eating itself overall through generations, presumptions, experiences and even health status/other individuality factors.

In my case I think it's 95-99% psychological. Because I don't actually think seafood is bad for me. So there's no logical reason for my body to reject it. That said, I've been this way my whole life...so it's a born psychosis. Actually i should ask my parents if I ate fish as a baby.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

B vitamins and copper which are particularly high in liver can be easily gotten in foods in more balanced quantities. Liver has a boat load of copper and that can be too much easily, it is very imbalanced mineral wise. 2-3mg a day of copper at most is what most people need on a long term basis, maybe 4mg if you exercise a lot (since it is a cofactor for catecholamines noradrenaline and adrenaline which you are going need for exercise).

Meat, dairy, eggs, fruits, starches, vegetables provide more than enough B vitamins and copper. As for the high vitamin A content of liver, I dont think its helpful when dairy and eggs, and fruits/vegetables will provide decent amounts of vitamin A and carotene. My point is liver is a perfectly fine food in small quantities, but everything in liver can be obtained other ways that don't such an imbalanced mineral profile. So there is no sense in forcing yourself to eat liver or take extra measures to help swallow it.

As for oysters, they are a very mineral rich food (especially zinc) and are perfect for women trying to reverse hair shedding. If you don't want to eat them and have extreme aversion to it like you do liver, oysters are not the only way to get minerals.

First thing any woman should look at when they have excess hair shedding is low iron and zinc. You may have low copper, selenium, manganese, etc as well. Red meats as ground beef provided a decent amount of iron and much more zinc then most steaks so you get more zinc with less food. But steaks are completely fine if you want to have those as well.

And the iron itself of course beneficial just keep in mind and look into iron status as this is very vital for women to get right which can in part explain fatigue, hair loss. Vitamin C is important for iron metabolism as well, so fruit is your friend. Other thing to look at is keep protein high enough as well as zinc.

So liver is really just for the vitamin A?

I guess I should probably just bite the bullet and get a blood analysis. It can check things like zinc, iron, vit A, other key levels, correct?

I do eat quite a lot of beef (almost daily). However, what I suspect might be one issue is low calorie intake. Like so far today I calculate I've eaten about 1000 calories (it's 9:13pm). I think the meal I'm about to make will probably be around 150-200 calories (Brussels sprouts and bacon). I eat when I'm hungry and and I eat to satiety, but I often skip meals (out of distraction/being busy) and I think my body has adapted to running on fewer calories. I probably just need more of all macro nutrients. I'm a bit trepidatious about doing that (It's really cheap and easy to be an undereater, lol)

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Don't say "people are wrong", because I had the opposite experience. Don't extrapolate your personal experience into universal claims. You don't like it, fine, it's not bound to be the same for everyone.

I hated it until I learned how to cook and prepare it properly. Occasionally, I'll get a batch of frozen (beef) liver which doesn't taste as good to me, but most of the time, it's delicious.

I reiterate my claim about using chicken liver, which is milder, and making it into a pate. I bet you'll find it very tasty. You could not, but based on my life experience, most people who hate liver, really enjoy a good chicken liver pate.

And regarding the oyster stew, it doesn't taste like you think it does. If you're not willing to try it, somebody else on this forum, I think @jamies33 , has made a liver AND oyster pate, and he says its delicious.

Liver is in a different category than fish for me. As a child I quite liked liver. Then just a year or so ago I ordered it in a restaurant and could not eat even a bite of it. It wasn't the thought of it, it was just simply that strong flavor. However I do think I could do things with liver to disguise the flavor, as it isn't the immediate rejection like I have with seafood.

I do think there are levels of "hating" food. Liver I think I could hide the flavor some how. Fish, no. Nothing will hide that flavor from me. No how no way. So, at least for me, it really depends. As for the oyster stew not tasting how I think it does, again, I don't think you understand how finely tuned my taste buds are to the smallest HINT of seafood flavor. When I go to Asian restaurants and I forget to tell them not to put fish sauce in the dish (which most people swear tastes just like soy sauce) I can't eat the meal. So...completely bypassing the tongue is what I would have to do for anything seafood related.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

If you see oysters only as a vehicle for zinc then according to the Perfect Health Diet you can take per week 50mg Zn instead of 6 oysters per week.

I actually have been taking the liquid zinc drops off and on over the past year. But I'm starting to suspect I need to be supplementing more via my diet than via supplements.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Can you do canned smoked oysters? I find those taste pretty good.

I'm with you on liver though. I've tried for literally a decade with every single recommended recipe and I gag every time. I just accepted that I cannot eat liver. I will not go near it again. People are wrong when they tell you that they have a recipe that hides the flavor. Just accept that you can't eat it. Resorting to liver pills is probably a more realistic option.

honestly that sounds easier. I am not a foodie. I've often said that if I could, I would take pills instead of food, since preparing food takes so much time. In terms of liver I would only be eating it for the vitamins, nothing else. So why not just treat it like a vitamin.

 

[jmojo]

honestly that sounds easier. I am not a foodie. I've often said that if I could, I would take pills instead of food, since preparing food takes so much time. In terms of liver I would only be eating it for the vitamins, nothing else. So why not just treat it like a vitamin.

Aside from liver pills being very common, there is also OysterMax which is a supplement.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Aside from liver pills being very common, there is also OysterMax which is a supplement.

Thanks that looks great. Even better than frozen pellets. But sadly I can only find it on amazon.co.uk, not amazon.com. :-/

 

[Jennifer]

I do eat quite a lot of beef (almost daily). However, what I suspect might be one issue is low calorie intake. Like so far today I calculate I've eaten about 1000 calories (it's 9:13pm). I think the meal I'm about to make will probably be around 150-200 calories (Brussels sprouts and bacon). I eat when I'm hungry and and I eat to satiety, but I often skip meals (out of distraction/being busy) and I think my body has adapted to running on fewer calories. I probably just need more of all macro nutrients. I'm a bit trepidatious about doing that (It's really cheap and easy to be an undereater, lol)

Yeah, I'd say if you typically eat so few calories daily, that could very well be the source of your hair shedding and low energy. I'm not big into tracking my food routinely, but will log a day or two of food in cronometer when I make changes to my diet just to make sure I'm not lacking anything and maybe it would help you to do the same? You can play around with different foods and see which ones meet your nutritional needs without the need for liver or seafood. I have a strong gag reflex also when it comes to certain animal proteins but despite this, I haven't had a problem meeting my nutritional needs. If you like dairy, eggs, meat, fruit and veggies, basically what redsun said, you shouldn't have a problem constructing a diet that gets you everything you need. Ray has talked about the importance of enjoying what we eat and its positive effect on digestion so it's probably counterproductive to force-feed yourself foods you don't like.

 

[mayweatherking]

leave liver in milk overnight in fridge it takes away the taste, i used to do it as well when i couldnt eat liver also, but overtime i got used to it i dont have to do that anymore

 

[tara]

However, what I suspect might be one issue is low calorie intake. Like so far today I calculate I've eaten about 1000 calories (it's 9:13pm). I think the meal I'm about to make will probably be around 150-200 calories (Brussels sprouts and bacon).

That does sound like not enough, if it's typical.

If it were me I wouldn't push the oysters or other seafood if you are strongly averse. (I actually love oysters, so this doesn't apply to me. I cook them because I don't want to risk infectious pathogens. )

Liver, I'd suggest trying whatever pate you can buy in your local shops to see if you can find one you like. Eg on crackers with tomato and cucumber or something. Then if you find a tasty one, see if you can recreate the key flavours - eg spices etc. If you get a good recipe, you can freeze serving sized slices.

A m I the only one who finds the taste of plain, salted, fried liver quite good?

Me too, when I'm craving it. But only if it's fresh, and not too much.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

That does sound like not enough, if it's typical.

it's very typical for me to eat less than 1200 calories /day. I find it really hard to eat more than that. although recently over the past week or so I've been eating multiple chocolate icecream "mochi" balls every day, which I think is getting my calories up. Just not sure how I feel about using "quick and dirty" calorie increasers like ice cream. (still not 100% onboard the sugar train yet)

If it were me I wouldn't push the oysters or other seafood if you are strongly averse. (I actually love oysters, so this doesn't apply to me. I cook them because I don't want to risk infectious pathogens. )

Honestly it's just the flavor/smell. I don't actually think my body reacts to them adversely in any way. That's why I think it's pretty much all psychological. So if I could swallow raw frozen oyster bits whole, then I would be ok.

That said - is it a good idea to swallow any food whole? Would I even be digesting it correctly? That's another doubt I have.

Liver, I'd suggest trying whatever pate you can buy in your local shops to see if you can find one you like. Eg on crackers with tomato and cucumber or something. Then if you find a tasty one, see if you can recreate the key flavours - eg spices etc. If you get a good recipe, you can freeze serving sized slices.

I actually just purchased frozen calf liver. I would have purchasd oysters too, but they didn't have any. I am thinking of just swallowing little raw frozen pieces whole...but again, is swallowing any food whole a good idea? Hmm..

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Yeah, I'd say if you typically eat so few calories daily, that could very well be the source of your hair shedding and low energy. I'm not big into tracking my food routinely, but will log a day or two of food in cronometer when I make changes to my diet just to make sure I'm not lacking anything and maybe it would help you to do the same? You can play around with different foods and see which ones meet your nutritional needs without the need for liver or seafood. I have a strong gag reflex also when it comes to certain animal proteins but despite this, I haven't had a problem meeting my nutritional needs. If you like dairy, eggs, meat, fruit and veggies, basically what redsun said, you shouldn't have a problem constructing a diet that gets you everything you need. Ray has talked about the importance of enjoying what we eat and its positive effect on digestion so it's probably counterproductive to force-feed yourself foods you don't like.

Thanks, these are all great points.

I think my biggest obstacle is probably just preparation. When I don't prepare my food ahead of time I get lazy and just grab whatever is closest (apples and cheeze, hard boiled egg) and eat until I'm not hungry (which doesn't take long). So I don't make a concerted effort to eat at specific times or any specific amounts. I probably should be planning and cooking my meals on sunday and then making sure to eat them regularly.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks, these are all great points.

I think my biggest obstacle is probably just preparation. When I don't prepare my food ahead of time I get lazy and just grab whatever is closest (apples and cheeze, hard boiled egg) and eat until I'm not hungry (which doesn't take long). So I don't make a concerted effort to eat at specific times or any specific amounts. I probably should be planning and cooking my meals on sunday and then making sure to eat them regularly.

I think part of the reason Ray talks about milk and OJ is because it requires no preparation, is available everywhere and you can drink it regularly, straight out of the fridge. I don't drink much OJ myself because there isn't any good kind where I live but I do drink a lot of good apple juice and milk throughout the day. On its own that gives you loads of protein, calcium, fructose, potassium etc.

You have to find a way to make it easy on yourself. Making a gelatinous chicken soup on Sundays, and having a bowl everyday which you don't have to prepare, along with some milk, maybe buy a block of cheese, cut up some fruits and always have some in the fridge. Make it as convenient as possible. I totally relate to not being a foodie. I've grown to enjoy food a bit more but at the core I like it when it's super convenient and I hate preparing meals on a daily basis.

For me, coffee with milk along with some fruits is something that can sustain me for many hours. When I can be bothered preparing fruits, I just eat some store-bought applesauce. I like to add egg yolks to soup when I warm up a bowl instead of cooking an meal of eggs. A can of smoked oysters (I have a very good source) and a few sticks of cheese is a meal for me. Dried fruits like figs can be dessert with some tea.

Bottomline, there are ways to get really good nutrition simply with not too much preparation.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks, these are all great points.

I think my biggest obstacle is probably just preparation. When I don't prepare my food ahead of time I get lazy and just grab whatever is closest (apples and cheeze, hard boiled egg) and eat until I'm not hungry (which doesn't take long). So I don't make a concerted effort to eat at specific times or any specific amounts. I probably should be planning and cooking my meals on sunday and then making sure to eat them regularly.

You're welcome! :)

I can understand that. I'm lazy too when it comes to eating. I enjoy cooking for others, but not for myself so my meals are mainly grab and go like maple sweetened yogurt, soft boiled eggs (prepared in large batches ahead of time), young coconut meat and fruit, usually ripe melon, or I'll make shakes by blending up some milk or yogurt, dates, vanilla bean powder and collagen. For dinner, I'll quickly sear up some scallops or make egg salad or crab salad with some coconut mayo and spices, and have it with some pre-made soup, homemade or canned, and a glass of milk or juice. Really simple.

I like to add egg yolks to soup when I warm up a bowl instead of cooking an meal of eggs.

Ooh...that's a great idea! I'm going to try that in my soup tomorrow. Thanks for sharing! :)

 

[mrchibbs]

You're welcome! :)

I can understand that. I'm lazy too with my eating habits. I enjoy cooking for others, but not for myself so my meals are mainly grab and go like maple sweetened yogurt, soft boiled eggs (prepared in large batches ahead of time), young coconut meat and fruit, usually ripe melon, or I'll make shakes by blending up some milk or yogurt, dates, vanilla bean powder and collagen. For dinner, I'll quickly sear up some scallops or make egg salad or crab salad with some coconut mayo and spices, and have it with some pre-made soup, homemade or canned, and a glass of milk or juice. Really simple.


Ooh...that's a great idea! I'm going to try that in my soup tomorrow. Thanks for sharing! :)

Just remember to mix the egg yolk with some of the soup broth on the side so that mixes fully instead of cooking in the soup.

 

[Jennifer]

Just remember to mix the egg yolk with some of the soup broth on the side so that mixes fully instead of cooking in the soup.

Will do! Thank you for the tip. :)

 

[tara]

it's very typical for me to eat less than 1200 calories /day. I find it really hard to eat more than that. although recently over the past week or so I've been eating multiple chocolate icecream "mochi" balls every day, which I think is getting my calories up. Just not sure how I feel about using "quick and dirty" calorie increasers like ice cream. (still not 100% onboard the sugar train yet)

If you haven't come across it yet, there's some commentary in this thread related to undereating:
Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia

According to Gwyneth Olwyn, the average mature non-dieting woman eats on average about 2500 calories/day. Eating way below that for an extended time creates a chronic energy deficit. The body can compensate by various methods, amongst others, reducing non-essential movement, deferring repair and maintenance, losing lean mass, reducing base metabolism and reducing production of some hormones.

If you can eat foods that have much of their minerals, vitamins and proteins with them, I expect that's generally preferable to too much pure refined sucrose etc. But there might be room in there for a bit of icecream along with other good foods, if it suits you.

I'm in favour of planning and preparing food ahead of when you need it.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

That's interesting. 2500 calories / day. Wow. That seems like quite a lot to me. I wonder what a good amount of calories would be for me. I'm guessing around 1500/day. I do eat 3 times a day, usually. I just don't eat large quantities. I try to eat nutrient & caloric dense foods like cheese, butter, sour cream, and coconut oil since I know I don't eat large quantities. I just eat until I'm no longer hungry. "Under eating" does seem like a strong term to me, but just from loose calculations it does seem like I eat 1200 or under every day. Thing is, if i didn't know that 1200 wasn't a lot, I would feel like I eat enough food, lol. I never go "hungry", except for when I'm distracted - I can easily ignore hunger pangs for hours if I"m in the middle of trying to finish something. But that doesn't happen on a daily basis. I usually feel quite well fed. The only signs that I'm not eating enough are people telling me that the "normal" amount of calories is supposedly way more than what I eat, and symptoms like hair shedding and periodic low energy.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I've also always been this way. My mom said that when I was a child she would have to trick me into finishing meals. I just was always distracted with other things, and also always got very full quickly. I wonder if there really is one set amount of calories that every woman/person should eat. I feel like it must be a sliding scale.