Can't Eat Oysters Or Liver?

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Hi everybody! This is my very first post. (Forgive me if I'm not following a protocol correctly)

I have a myriad of questions, but rather than ask them all in one post, I'll separate them topic by topic so they will be easier for others to find in the future.

My first question is about oysters and liver. I see they are two staples in a Ray Peat inspired diet. I have a very hard time eating liver (last time I tried was 2 years ago and I couldn't eat more than one bite) and pretty much an impossible time eating any seafood (I've tried my entire life to eat any kind of seafood but it always triggers a gag reflex in me. I literally cannot swallow it). I have a strong gag reflex and find it almost impossible to swallow things that trigger it, which liver and oysters both do. So...

Is there an alternate way to eat these things without having to chew and swallow them? Or another way to get the nutrients that they have? Thank you

Background about me: I'm a female who is mainly looking for less hair shedding / thicker hair, and more energy (have on-again, off-again symptoms of adrenal fatigue). Other than hair and energy/mood, I am pretty healthy in most other regards.
 

mrchibbs

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Hi everybody! This is my very first post. (Forgive me if I'm not following a protocol correctly)

I have a myriad of questions, but rather than ask them all in one post, I'll separate them topic by topic so they will be easier for others to find in the future.

My first question is about oysters and liver. I see they are two staples in a Ray Peat inspired diet. I have a very hard time eating liver (last time I tried was 2 years ago and I couldn't eat more than one bite) and pretty much an impossible time eating any seafood (I've tried my entire life to eat any kind of seafood but it always triggers a gag reflex in me. I literally cannot swallow it). I have a strong gag reflex and find it almost impossible to swallow things that trigger it, which liver and oysters both do. So...

Is there an alternate way to eat these things without having to chew and swallow them? Or another way to get the nutrients that they have? Thank you

Background about me: I'm a female who is mainly looking for less hair shedding / thicker hair, and more energy (have on-again, off-again symptoms of adrenal fatigue). Other than hair and energy/mood, I am pretty healthy in most other regards.

It's relatively normal. Liver and oyster (and other shellfish) were typically prepared in a certain way.

I would recommend learning a good liver and fried onion pate recipe. You can even add bacon. Chicken liver is easier to start with than beef. If you get good at it, you'll find it tastes delicious on bread or crackers with a glass of wine/alcohol.

For the oysters, the best thing to do is learn how to make an oyster stew, you can add whole milk, herbs, egg yolks etc. Check out recipe
 

Peatful

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You take fresh frozen calf or beef liver.
It’s frozen- so while frozen you cut it into capsule size pieces. The size of a large tablet.
You put the pieces into a air tight freezable container- and you start by taking one - swallowed whole and frozen- every third day - like a pill.

You can also eat liverwurst one or twice a week.
 
OP
wealthofwisdom
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It's relatively normal. Liver and oyster (and other shellfish) were typically prepared in a certain way.

I would recommend learning a good liver and fried onion pate recipe. You can even add bacon. Chicken liver is easier to start with than beef. If you get good at it, you'll find it tastes delicious on bread or crackers with a glass of wine/alcohol.

For the oysters, the best thing to do is learn how to make an oyster stew, you can add whole milk, herbs, egg yolks etc. Check out recipe

Thank you Mr Chibbs...but I don't think you understand the extreme to which I cannot eat oysters. An oyster stew? I honestly would NEVER get through it. I can't swallow a single minuscule bite of oyster. I have a very strong gag reflex. One bite would make me gag (and possibly vomit :-( )

As for pate...I can try it. It may or may not be possible. I have a feeling it might not be...
 
OP
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You take fresh frozen calf or beef liver.
It’s frozen- so while frozen you cut it into capsule size pieces. The size of a large tablet.
You put the pieces into a air tight freezable container- and you start by taking one - swallowed whole and frozen- every third day - like a pill.

You can also eat liverwurst one or twice a week.

This sounds way more doable for me. Freezing them and then swallowing them whole like a pill. Can you do that with oysters too?
 
OP
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If I freeze oysters and liver to then eat them like frozen foot vitamins, is it better to cook them first, or eat them raw?
 

AdoTintor

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If you see oysters only as a vehicle for zinc then according to the Perfect Health Diet you can take per week 50mg Zn instead of 6 oysters per week.
 

Peatful

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Never tried with oysters.
My guess is yes, it’ll work the same.

Raw. Not cooked.

It’s not eating. It’s swallowing.

Lastly, I’ll add that I’m glad to see you supplementing with food, not supplements.
Whole food is by far superior.
 
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Kratos

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Maybe you are gagging because you are overloaded with copper, try shrimp and see how it goes.
 
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I wonder how much a psychological (or other adapted/inherited) barrier(s) plays a role in cuisine or food choices in people. Perhaps the possible focus on the grossness or "exotic" aspect of eating some things at the source rather than hoping for a shortcut to the same end result is a better approach -- but if you can't get yourself to eat it you probably should not stressfully force yourself to do so in an unproductive way.

Simply I hear people scoff or diss foods because "it is so and so" or "this food" and that is it -- won't it eat/can't eat it for that reason or because it is "X" thing with no other reasoning.

People sometimes even convince themselves things are bad without even knowing much of the things they actually are against.

When I first tried liver I was not squeamish over it -- usually do not have preconceptions over what I eat being "this" or "that." I did not gag and have never really had an offensive response to meats or most "natural" foods this way (wine would be the only one of few things that make me get to this point which I know is likely not psychological in my case). Pretty sure that some foods -- like organ meats for example -- are considered more "gross" than muscle meats usually. But beyond a psychological measure I don't know how much there'd really be a gag reflex against something solely on the basis of it being from a certain part of an animal or etc. unless some artificial taste or flavoring is factored in to a certain degree/extent. Some things probably have repulsive taste to some and not others I suppose, but not sure how "natural" the dissing or innate rejecting of one thing and/or favoring of another by developed habit can be.

Maybe we underestimate psychological or "conditioning" effects are regarding food choices and eating itself overall through generations, presumptions, experiences and even health status/other individuality factors.
 
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jmojo

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Can you do canned smoked oysters? I find those taste pretty good.

I'm with you on liver though. I've tried for literally a decade with every single recommended recipe and I gag every time. I just accepted that I cannot eat liver. I will not go near it again. People are wrong when they tell you that they have a recipe that hides the flavor. Just accept that you can't eat it. Resorting to liver pills is probably a more realistic option.
 

mrchibbs

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Can you do canned smoked oysters? I find those taste pretty good.

I'm with you on liver though. I've tried for literally a decade with every single recommended recipe and I gag every time. I just accepted that I cannot eat liver. I will not go near it again. People are wrong when they tell you that they have a recipe that hides the flavor. Just accept that you can't eat it. Resorting to liver pills is probably a more realistic option.

Don't say "people are wrong", because I had the opposite experience. Don't extrapolate your personal experience into universal claims. You don't like it, fine, it's not bound to be the same for everyone.

I hated it until I learned how to cook and prepare it properly. Occasionally, I'll get a batch of frozen (beef) liver which doesn't taste as good to me, but most of the time, it's delicious.

I reiterate my claim about using chicken liver, which is milder, and making it into a pate. I bet you'll find it very tasty. You could not, but based on my life experience, most people who hate liver, really enjoy a good chicken liver pate.

And regarding the oyster stew, it doesn't taste like you think it does. If you're not willing to try it, somebody else on this forum, I think @jamies33 , has made a liver AND oyster pate, and he says its delicious.
 

YourUniverse

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Don't say "people are wrong", because I had the opposite experience. Don't extrapolate your personal experience into universal claims. You don't like it, fine, it's not bound to be the same for everyone.

I hated it until I learned how to cook and prepare it properly. Occasionally, I'll get a batch of frozen (beef) liver which doesn't taste as good to me, but most of the time, it's delicious.

I reiterate my claim about using chicken liver, which is milder, and making it into a pate. I bet you'll find it very tasty. You could not, but based on my life experience, most people who hate liver, really enjoy a good chicken liver pate.

And regarding the oyster stew, it doesn't taste like you think it does. If you're not willing to try it, somebody else on this forum, I think @jamies33 , has made a liver AND oyster pate, and he says its delicious.
Yes, sir. Ive had it every morning since. It's probably better with more coconut oil and less butter.
Does Anyone Make Pate?
 

mrchibbs

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Yes, sir. Ive had it every morning since. It's probably better with more coconut oil and less butter.
Does Anyone Make Pate?

Great to hear! I too think coconut oil is key to making pate, it makes it "gel" and take on the ideal texture.
 

Ableton

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I found an amazing eco supplier of beef liver pate in germany. there is probably only around 20% actual liver inside (the rest being mostly other beef meats, and potato) but better then nothing. I have like 2 tsps/day

Out of the fridge it tastes okay. If you heat it up in the microwave it is even tasty
 

redsun

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Hi everybody! This is my very first post. (Forgive me if I'm not following a protocol correctly)

I have a myriad of questions, but rather than ask them all in one post, I'll separate them topic by topic so they will be easier for others to find in the future.

My first question is about oysters and liver. I see they are two staples in a Ray Peat inspired diet. I have a very hard time eating liver (last time I tried was 2 years ago and I couldn't eat more than one bite) and pretty much an impossible time eating any seafood (I've tried my entire life to eat any kind of seafood but it always triggers a gag reflex in me. I literally cannot swallow it). I have a strong gag reflex and find it almost impossible to swallow things that trigger it, which liver and oysters both do. So...

Is there an alternate way to eat these things without having to chew and swallow them? Or another way to get the nutrients that they have? Thank you

Background about me: I'm a female who is mainly looking for less hair shedding / thicker hair, and more energy (have on-again, off-again symptoms of adrenal fatigue). Other than hair and energy/mood, I am pretty healthy in most other regards.

B vitamins and copper which are particularly high in liver can be easily gotten in foods in more balanced quantities. Liver has a boat load of copper and that can be too much easily, it is very imbalanced mineral wise. 2-3mg a day of copper at most is what most people need on a long term basis, maybe 4mg if you exercise a lot (since it is a cofactor for catecholamines noradrenaline and adrenaline which you are going need for exercise).

Meat, dairy, eggs, fruits, starches, vegetables provide more than enough B vitamins and copper. As for the high vitamin A content of liver, I dont think its helpful when dairy and eggs, and fruits/vegetables will provide decent amounts of vitamin A and carotene. My point is liver is a perfectly fine food in small quantities, but everything in liver can be obtained other ways that don't such an imbalanced mineral profile. So there is no sense in forcing yourself to eat liver or take extra measures to help swallow it.

As for oysters, they are a very mineral rich food (especially zinc) and are perfect for women trying to reverse hair shedding. If you don't want to eat them and have extreme aversion to it like you do liver, oysters are not the only way to get minerals.

First thing any woman should look at when they have excess hair shedding is low iron and zinc. You may have low copper, selenium, manganese, etc as well. Red meats as ground beef provided a decent amount of iron and much more zinc then most steaks so you get more zinc with less food. But steaks are completely fine if you want to have those as well.

And the iron itself of course beneficial just keep in mind and look into iron status as this is very vital for women to get right which can in part explain fatigue, hair loss. Vitamin C is important for iron metabolism as well, so fruit is your friend. Other thing to look at is keep protein high enough as well as zinc.
 
OP
wealthofwisdom
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Never tried with oysters.
My guess is yes, it’ll work the same.

Raw. Not cooked.

It’s not eating. It’s swallowing.

Lastly, I’ll add that I’m glad to see you supplementing with food, not supplements.
Whole food is by far superior.

Exactly. I don't see it as "eating" but rather swallowing whole. That I could do. And yes, I've been a supplement junkie my whole life and I think it's time I start using food to get my nutrients instead. I've had a pretty healthy diet (well, according to some), but I think I've seen supplements as magic pills that allow me to be lazy in other ways. But they don't have that synergy of nature , do they?
 
OP
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Maybe you are gagging because you are overloaded with copper, try shrimp and see how it goes.

No, I've been this way my entire life. Shrimp, lobster, crab, tuna, whatever, anything from the sea, you name it. Even seaweed. I actually think it's psychosomatic. I don't think that seafood is bad for me. But for whatever reason my brain insists on triggering disgust with the taste/smell. My rational mind does not have a problem with it, but for some reason it just triggers a very strong gag reflex in me. You should see me try to eat ONE tiny morsel of any seafood (I've tried many times in my life). It's ridiculous. But if I could completely bypass the flavor/smell I think I would be fine.
 

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