Caffeine Increases Pregnenolone & Progesterone In The Brain

[4peatssake]

why would you take caffeine pills when you could just drink a strong coffee?? Or eat chocolate covered coffee beans :) I drink about 8 oz. of espresso once or twice per day - when the sun is out, I find I don't need as much. 8 oz. of espresso has about 500 mg of caffeine. And, I've actually found that adding salt to coffee with cream and sugar is quite tasty!

haidut answered this for him earlier in the thread and peata did just now.

It's no different from supplementing k2 rather than drinking kale broth etc. :?
But perception is sometimes different with certain nutrients.

I'm experimenting with higher dosage caffeine and just couldn't drink any more than the 6-8 cups a day I'm drinking now.

 

[lindsay]

haidut answered this for him earlier in the thread and peata did just now.

It's no different from supplementing k2 rather than drinking kale broth etc. :?
But perception is sometimes different with certain nutrients.

I'm experimenting with higher dosage caffeine and just couldn't drink any more than the 6-8 cups a day I'm drinking now.

Yes, I suppose perception is key. I choose to supplement K2 over eating liver because I hate liver. But coffee is delicious and to be enjoyed :) I think the biggest mistake people make on here, however, is drinking coffee and not espresso grade coffee. Espresso has far more magnesium, caffeine (per oz.) Every morning I drink an 8 oz. pot of espresso ground coffee made in a high pressure machine. When I'm visiting family and have to drink their coffee, I notice the difference in how I feel because drip or other coffee is just not as powerful and I have to drink 3 times as much to feel even slightly more alert. Espresso also has lots of B3 (Niacin) and there's about 200 mg of magnesium in the pot I drink in the morning, along with about 500 mg of caffeine.

I was never into such strong coffee, but mixed with milk and sugar, it pairs very well. Dewitt (from Peatarian) put me onto espresso made in a proper machine - he said it was one of the things that helped him in his health endeavors.

Anyhow, I feel like if many people on here switched to espresso, they could feel better drinking less actual coffee volume, which would help prevent too much liquid intake. I also notice that an additional 1/2 pot in the afternoon makes me feel the same as taking thyroid. I don't feel caffeine pills would be the same (unless you are eating coffee grounds) because you wouldn't get the magnesium and b vitamins, which might help the body to handle the caffeine better without a stress reaction. I don't feel anything when I drink espresso - other than slightly more energy and clearer thinking and less congestion.

 

[superhuman]

Well coffee from filter coffee in a coffee machine is so easy to make.

Isnt making an espresso alot of work? you need expensive machine and all that jazz?

 

[4peatssake]

haidut answered this for him earlier in the thread and peata did just now.

It's no different from supplementing k2 rather than drinking kale broth etc. :?
But perception is sometimes different with certain nutrients.

I'm experimenting with higher dosage caffeine and just couldn't drink any more than the 6-8 cups a day I'm drinking now.

Yes, I suppose perception is key. I choose to supplement K2 over eating liver because I hate liver. But coffee is delicious and to be enjoyed :) I think the biggest mistake people make on here, however, is drinking coffee and not espresso grade coffee. Espresso has far more magnesium, caffeine (per oz.) Every morning I drink an 8 oz. pot of espresso ground coffee made in a high pressure machine. When I'm visiting family and have to drink their coffee, I notice the difference in how I feel because drip or other coffee is just not as powerful and I have to drink 3 times as much to feel even slightly more alert. Espresso also has lots of B3 (Niacin) and there's about 200 mg of magnesium in the pot I drink in the morning, along with about 500 mg of caffeine.

I was never into such strong coffee, but mixed with milk and sugar, it pairs very well. Dewitt (from Peatarian) put me onto espresso made in a proper machine - he said it was one of the things that helped him in his health endeavors.

Anyhow, I feel like if many people on here switched to espresso, they could feel better drinking less actual coffee volume, which would help prevent too much liquid intake. I also notice that an additional 1/2 pot in the afternoon makes me feel the same as taking thyroid. I don't feel caffeine pills would be the same (unless you are eating coffee grounds) because you wouldn't get the magnesium and b vitamins, which might help the body to handle the caffeine better without a stress reaction. I don't feel anything when I drink espresso - other than slightly more energy and clearer thinking and less congestion.

Thankfully, people get to decide for themselves what works best for them.
Not everyone tolerates coffee or will choose to drink it.
Ray Peat drinks strong drip coffee. Some prefer instant coffee. Some choose espresso.
Others choose to also supplement caffeine.
Presumably, they have based their decision on what works best for them.

For me, I sometimes do espresso but I get bored doing the same thing and like to switch things around. I also end up drinking as much liquid because I end up with latte from the milk and sugar. Right now, I'm drinking Vietnamese coffee and loving it.

I don't think it's helpful to categorize "people on here" nor consider one can know what is best for them.
It's one thing to share what works for you, quite another to say everyone should be doing it. When I work with others it's one of the first distinctions that we make together.
I also don't see how anyone can say with any degree of accuracy what the biggest mistake the people on an anonymous public forum are making in their efforts to heal themselves. It may be an opinion based upon one's perception of reality but doubtful to be accurate by any stretch.

I cherish the freedom of doing what I wish to do, on my terms with all the consequences my choices bring to me, rather than being told by others what I "should" be doing. I've had enough of those experiences to know it's not the path I wish to follow, especially as many of those decisions led to ill health and unhappiness.

The beauty of creating your own personal approach is in the freedom from being told what is "best for you" by others and finding that for yourself by your own effort. I rather think that is how life is meant to be lived, what Ray Peat encourages as well and why I chose this for my "signature."

The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system

 

[4peatssake]

Well coffee from filter coffee in a coffee machine is so easy to make.

Isnt making an espresso alot of work? you need expensive machine and all that jazz?

I have an Aeropress which makes great espresso.
Costs less than $40 CDN

Aeropress

 

[lindsay]

Thankfully, people get to decide for themselves what works best for them.
Not everyone tolerates coffee or will choose to drink it.
Ray Peat drinks strong drip coffee. Some prefer instant coffee. Some choose espresso.
Others choose to also supplement caffeine.
Presumably, they have based their decision on what works best for them.

For me, I sometimes do espresso but I get bored doing the same thing and like to switch things around. I also end up drinking as much liquid because I end up with latte from the milk and sugar. Right now, I'm drinking Vietnamese coffee and loving it.

I don't think it's helpful to categorize "people on here" nor consider one can know what is best for them.
It's one thing to share what works for you, quite another to say everyone should be doing it. When I work with others it's one of the first distinctions that we make together.
I also don't see how anyone can say with any degree of accuracy what the biggest mistake the people on an anonymous public forum are making in their efforts to heal themselves. It may be an opinion based upon one's perception of reality but doubtful to be accurate by any stretch.

I cherish the freedom of doing what I wish to do, on my terms with all the consequences my choices bring to me, rather than being told by others what I "should" be doing. I've had enough of those experiences to know it's not the path I wish to follow, especially as many of those decisions led to ill health and unhappiness.

The beauty of creating your own personal approach is in the freedom from being told what is "best for you" by others and finding that for yourself by your own effort. I rather think that is how life is meant to be lived, what Ray Peat encourages as well and why I chose this for my "signature."

The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system

Geez. I apologize for having an opinion. We ARE still allowed to have them, no? I realize not everyone can tolerate coffee - my husband cannot drink it without getting massive adrenaline surges, so he just chooses not to drink coffee. That's fine by me. I was rather commenting on that I've read people say they drink like 12 cups of coffee per day (which is what one would need in order to get the 1200 mg of "recommended" caffeine). That's an awful lot of liquid for people with hypothyroidism - this is just my perception. Espresso eliminates a lot of the liquids and gives you something concentrated. Plus, if you add milk to make a latte, you are just getting more minerals (a good calcium/magnesium protein mix).

I was just commenting on my observations and stating my opinion. Feel free to take it with a grain of salt. Ray Peat also has very pert opinions that people on here base their entire lifestyle and diet upon, so just because he is anti-dogma doesn't mean we cannot share our opinions and what's worked best for us within this framework.

And Vietnamese coffee sounds delicious!! I love Thai coffee - maybe I will give Vietnamese a try sometime. I'm totally into trying new things. Or choosing tea over coffee when I feel like it.

 

[4peatssake]

Thankfully, people get to decide for themselves what works best for them.
Not everyone tolerates coffee or will choose to drink it.
Ray Peat drinks strong drip coffee. Some prefer instant coffee. Some choose espresso.
Others choose to also supplement caffeine.
Presumably, they have based their decision on what works best for them.

For me, I sometimes do espresso but I get bored doing the same thing and like to switch things around. I also end up drinking as much liquid because I end up with latte from the milk and sugar. Right now, I'm drinking Vietnamese coffee and loving it.

I don't think it's helpful to categorize "people on here" nor consider one can know what is best for them.
It's one thing to share what works for you, quite another to say everyone should be doing it. When I work with others it's one of the first distinctions that we make together.
I also don't see how anyone can say with any degree of accuracy what the biggest mistake the people on an anonymous public forum are making in their efforts to heal themselves. It may be an opinion based upon one's perception of reality but doubtful to be accurate by any stretch.

I cherish the freedom of doing what I wish to do, on my terms with all the consequences my choices bring to me, rather than being told by others what I "should" be doing. I've had enough of those experiences to know it's not the path I wish to follow, especially as many of those decisions led to ill health and unhappiness.

The beauty of creating your own personal approach is in the freedom from being told what is "best for you" by others and finding that for yourself by your own effort. I rather think that is how life is meant to be lived, what Ray Peat encourages as well and why I chose this for my "signature."

The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system

Geez. I apologize for having an opinion. We ARE still allowed to have them, no? I realize not everyone can tolerate coffee - my husband cannot drink it without getting massive adrenaline surges, so he just chooses not to drink coffee. That's fine by me. I was rather commenting on that I've read people say they drink like 12 cups of coffee per day (which is what one would need in order to get the 1200 mg of "recommended" caffeine). That's an awful lot of liquid for people with hypothyroidism - this is just my perception. Espresso eliminates a lot of the liquids and gives you something concentrated. Plus, if you add milk to make a latte, you are just getting more minerals (a good calcium/magnesium protein mix).

I was just commenting on my observations and stating my opinion. Feel free to take it with a grain of salt. Ray Peat also has very pert opinions that people on here base their entire lifestyle and diet upon, so just because he is anti-dogma doesn't mean we cannot share our opinions and what's worked best for us within this framework.

And Vietnamese coffee sounds delicious!! I love Thai coffee - maybe I will give Vietnamese a try sometime. I'm totally into trying new things. Or choosing tea over coffee when I feel like it.

Opinions are great.
That's not at all what I took issue with.

And the Vietnamese coffee is quite yummy.

 

[charlie]

I wish I had an expresso machine. Being raised on cafe con leche makes me want it even more. Aaaah memories.

 

[honeybee]

Stovetop espresso makers are great and relatively cheap-under $30. You can find stainless steel ones versus the original aluminum. Amazon and eBay are good sources for the stainless ones.
I think these produce a better cup than the cheap steam driven "espresso" machines.

 

[jyb]

Stovetop espresso makers are great and relatively cheap-under $30. You can find stainless steel ones versus the original aluminum. Amazon and eBay are good sources for the stainless ones.
I think these produce a better cup than the cheap steam driven "espresso" machines.

Yup I agree. Stovetop, AeroPress and instant coffee are all good ways to make concentrated coffee. I don't like the idea of a coffee machine, unless it's a proper expresso machine (but it costs more...).

The stovetop coffee in aluminium are pure evil though. I trashed mine when read Peat's warning and read the reference study. Evil. It is indeed possible to find a stainless steel one...but is it nickel free type of steel? Coffee, steam hot water for a few minutes, I wonder that could make nickel leach. You see, now I'm careful after that aluminium experience. I will only use those steel ones when I have an answer.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12 ... 42/related
What makes caffeine any different than nicotine?

 

[haidut]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12543235/?i=2&from=/10837842/related
What makes caffeine any different than nicotine?

Caffeine increases respiration while nicotine does not. Also, in higher doses caffeine uncouples mitochondria while nicotine does not. Finally, nicotine activates the cholinergic system, and caffeine does not. Ray has written about the role of choline in pathologies like Alzheimer's.
Oh, one more thing - in several animal models caffeine increases maximum lifespan while nicotine does not.

 

[jyb]

Caffeine increases respiration while nicotine does not. Also, in higher doses caffeine uncouples mitochondria while nicotine does not. Finally, nicotine activates the cholinergic system, and caffeine does not. Ray has written about the role of choline in pathologies like Alzheimer's.
Oh, one more thing - in several animal models caffeine increases maximum lifespan while nicotine does not.

From studies, nicotine does uncouple, in addition to a whole lot of other "pro-metaoblism" things (including against Alzheimer's - there's a lot of new research suggesting its neuroprotective effect could be useful in those diseases). Like caffeine and adrenalin, I have no doubt that results depend on the dose or other things however - the effect on some hormones becomes the opposite after a certain dose.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10411229/
I don't necessarily know what an uncoupling protein is but maybe this is useful.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Caffeine uncoupled protein 1,2, and 3 so it probably is better for that though.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Course, then there's this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15 ... 29/related
Why even bother with this stuff?

 

[pboy]

the thing with nicotine...well, I should say tobacco, I don't know about just a nicotine patch in isolation, but it really depends on your current state how it acts. Its the most peculiar substance there is because it doesn't just do one thing, it has like every potential and depending on situation it acts accordingly, or also what your state is. I think it basically amplifies everything, and stimulates intestines to move things downward. So if you're in a trapped serotonin state, it'll amplify that and...while still beneficial for moving GI, it might make you want to just rest and conserve energy to use for internal healing. Sometimes though it can be what flips you back into action and hope mode, so it responds to your spiritual state. If you are someone who gives up and complains and has no reference experiences for overcoming trying situations, it would make you just pass out in a serotonin state. If you're someone who executes regardless, the right thing, even if its a seemingly trapped state, and has references of overcoming trying situations, knows hope, it will aid you by defending against stress while giving energy to continue to act. If you smoke in the morning, it'll wake you right up. If you smoke at night after your body is calmed down and melatonin has set in, it will help you to fall asleep pretty imeediately by choice. If youre in a doped happy mood, expansive and electric, it enhances that almost over the top. If youre in a fight or flight state, it enhances focus and seeming ability to act decisively. If youre in a confused or hurt situation, it helps bring in insight and give that nourished crown of head feel to facilitate a more spiritual internal thought mode. Its really veeeery complex and basically responds to your current physical and mental state, as well as time of day. I don't know how it works chemically speaking, but im thinking it would be very hard to trace exactly, it would be similar to a 'hard problem' where consciousness has to be a variable, and you cant really in a lab conclusively determine that, its more of an empirical thing. The chemicals in most tobacco and the burning paper is definitely a bodily stress and wouldn't promote anything good. If you smoke too much of anything, or the material is too dry, and its harsh, its probably estrogenic. If you light the same bowl too many times and like pack it in, then you'll hit ash, and that's probably estrogenic. Tobacco also has aromatase inhibitors, but at the same time if you are inhaling estrogens then its a neutralizing effect. So theres many sensitive factors and so many variables with tobacco most people could never actually figure it out in a lab setting, it takes really a different kind of wise man to understand it, experience, and empirical reflectiveness and awareness in the moment. Its much different than caffeine in the sense that caffeine makes you up, regardless, for a set period of time...while on it, it makes you less receptive and more action oriented. Tobacco is unique in the sense, it can make you more receptive while simultaneously also more action oriented, if that's needed at the time, and also...you can shift immediately from fired up to calm and heart to heart. Its more of an empowerer in every sense than it is a stimulant or sedative. It helps you go through life, in every sense and pretty much every situation without any real drawbacks if you use it and smoke it properly. Its not necessary after a certain stage of being and general awareness and understanding of your body, life, and the interactions are well wired, but its welcome still. Ive smoked cigarettes and cigars and...in every possible method and all that before, and i'd say...that kind of tobacco probably actually all considered, would be a net negative. It might have minor net positive in rare situations, but its drawbacks are too much to overcome and it would probably lead to depression cause it affects breathing and other things. Entirely pure tobacco smoked in an entirely pure way, avoiding hitting or inhaling the ash, without a doubt, would prolong life if you wanted that, and if you didn't want that, it would help you also. I cant think of a good analogy to use but its like a guardian of the soul...but again, it has to be delicately done and pure or its going to have drawbacks. And also, again, it responds to your state of being. To a non spiritual person, a non artistic person, to someone totally mundane living in a totally physical/chemical viewpoint of life, it might not be that big a deal, a mild stimulant or sedative at best. To a spiritual person who sees life metaphysically (while still understanding that physical reality is a part of things...correlated), its in the very top of greatest substances to have. Its no coincidence that non spiritual people never even have the desire to use pure tobacco in a pure way or understand it from that perspective. Its kind of like that with everything in life. You see and seek and receive what your intentions, collection of potential energies, and perspective are

 

[cantstoppeating]

the thing with nicotine...well, I should say tobacco, I don't know about just a nicotine patch in isolation, but it really depends on your current state how it acts. Its the most peculiar substance there is because it doesn't just do one thing, it has like every potential and depending on situation it acts accordingly, or also what your state is. I think it basically amplifies everything, and stimulates intestines to move things downward. So if you're in a trapped serotonin state, it'll amplify that and...while still beneficial for moving GI, it might make you want to just rest and conserve energy to use for internal healing. Sometimes though it can be what flips you back into action and hope mode, so it responds to your spiritual state.

If you are someone who gives up and complains and has no reference experiences for overcoming trying situations, it would make you just pass out in a serotonin state. If you're someone who executes regardless, the right thing, even if its a seemingly trapped state, and has references of overcoming trying situations, knows hope, it will aid you by defending against stress while giving energy to continue to act.

If you smoke in the morning, it'll wake you right up. If you smoke at night after your body is calmed down and melatonin has set in, it will help you to fall asleep pretty imeediately by choice. If youre in a doped happy mood, expansive and electric, it enhances that almost over the top. If youre in a fight or flight state, it enhances focus and seeming ability to act decisively.

If youre in a confused or hurt situation, it helps bring in insight and give that nourished crown of head feel to facilitate a more spiritual internal thought mode. Its really veeeery complex and basically responds to your current physical and mental state, as well as time of day. I don't know how it works chemically speaking, but im thinking it would be very hard to trace exactly, it would be similar to a 'hard problem' where consciousness has to be a variable, and you cant really in a lab conclusively determine that, its more of an empirical thing. The chemicals in most tobacco and the burning paper is definitely a bodily stress and wouldn't promote anything good. If you smoke too much of anything, or the material is too dry, and its harsh, its probably estrogenic.

If you light the same bowl too many times and like pack it in, then you'll hit ash, and that's probably estrogenic. Tobacco also has aromatase inhibitors, but at the same time if you are inhaling estrogens then its a neutralizing effect. So theres many sensitive factors and so many variables with tobacco most people could never actually figure it out in a lab setting, it takes really a different kind of wise man to understand it, experience, and empirical reflectiveness and awareness in the moment. Its much different than caffeine in the sense that caffeine makes you up, regardless, for a set period of time...while on it, it makes you less receptive and more action oriented.

Tobacco is unique in the sense, it can make you more receptive while simultaneously also more action oriented, if that's needed at the time, and also...you can shift immediately from fired up to calm and heart to heart. Its more of an empowerer in every sense than it is a stimulant or sedative. It helps you go through life, in every sense and pretty much every situation without any real drawbacks if you use it and smoke it properly.

Its not necessary after a certain stage of being and general awareness and understanding of your body, life, and the interactions are well wired, but its welcome still. Ive smoked cigarettes and cigars and...in every possible method and all that before, and i'd say...that kind of tobacco probably actually all considered, would be a net negative. It might have minor net positive in rare situations, but its drawbacks are too much to overcome and it would probably lead to depression cause it affects breathing and other things.

Entirely pure tobacco smoked in an entirely pure way, avoiding hitting or inhaling the ash, without a doubt, would prolong life if you wanted that, and if you didn't want that, it would help you also. I cant think of a good analogy to use but its like a guardian of the soul...but again, it has to be delicately done and pure or its going to have drawbacks.

And also, again, it responds to your state of being. To a non spiritual person, a non artistic person, to someone totally mundane living in a totally physical/chemical viewpoint of life, it might not be that big a deal, a mild stimulant or sedative at best.

To a spiritual person who sees life metaphysically (while still understanding that physical reality is a part of things...correlated), its in the very top of greatest substances to have. Its no coincidence that non spiritual people never even have the desire to use pure tobacco in a pure way or understand it from that perspective. Its kind of like that with everything in life. You see and seek and receive what your intentions, collection of potential energies, and perspective are

Is the above not easier to approach and read? Seeing a wall of text is a great mental stressor.

 

[Zachs]

Pboy, great post and I agree 100%. Also interesting insight about others who just use it as a distraction ane addiction and do not care for the quality, I know many people like that.

Personally I am the same as you describe, and for that reason I have found the best times to smoke and know when it'll just make me lethargic. It is certainly an adaptogen and dopamine enhancer as well. Another interesting thing for me is I actually can tell when I feel the need to smoke and when I dont, I only smoke a very small amount but there will be times when I will go days without any urge to smoke.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

the thing with nicotine...well, I should say tobacco, I don't know about just a nicotine patch in isolation, but it really depends on your current state how it acts. Its the most peculiar substance there is because it doesn't just do one thing, it has like every potential and depending on situation it acts accordingly, or also what your state is. I think it basically amplifies everything, and stimulates intestines to move things downward. So if you're in a trapped serotonin state, it'll amplify that and...while still beneficial for moving GI, it might make you want to just rest and conserve energy to use for internal healing. Sometimes though it can be what flips you back into action and hope mode, so it responds to your spiritual state. If you are someone who gives up and complains and has no reference experiences for overcoming trying situations, it would make you just pass out in a serotonin state. If you're someone who executes regardless, the right thing, even if its a seemingly trapped state, and has references of overcoming trying situations, knows hope, it will aid you by defending against stress while giving energy to continue to act. If you smoke in the morning, it'll wake you right up. If you smoke at night after your body is calmed down and melatonin has set in, it will help you to fall asleep pretty imeediately by choice. If youre in a doped happy mood, expansive and electric, it enhances that almost over the top. If youre in a fight or flight state, it enhances focus and seeming ability to act decisively. If youre in a confused or hurt situation, it helps bring in insight and give that nourished crown of head feel to facilitate a more spiritual internal thought mode. Its really veeeery complex and basically responds to your current physical and mental state, as well as time of day. I don't know how it works chemically speaking, but im thinking it would be very hard to trace exactly, it would be similar to a 'hard problem' where consciousness has to be a variable, and you cant really in a lab conclusively determine that, its more of an empirical thing. The chemicals in most tobacco and the burning paper is definitely a bodily stress and wouldn't promote anything good. If you smoke too much of anything, or the material is too dry, and its harsh, its probably estrogenic. If you light the same bowl too many times and like pack it in, then you'll hit ash, and that's probably estrogenic. Tobacco also has aromatase inhibitors, but at the same time if you are inhaling estrogens then its a neutralizing effect. So theres many sensitive factors and so many variables with tobacco most people could never actually figure it out in a lab setting, it takes really a different kind of wise man to understand it, experience, and empirical reflectiveness and awareness in the moment. Its much different than caffeine in the sense that caffeine makes you up, regardless, for a set period of time...while on it, it makes you less receptive and more action oriented. Tobacco is unique in the sense, it can make you more receptive while simultaneously also more action oriented, if that's needed at the time, and also...you can shift immediately from fired up to calm and heart to heart. Its more of an empowerer in every sense than it is a stimulant or sedative. It helps you go through life, in every sense and pretty much every situation without any real drawbacks if you use it and smoke it properly. Its not necessary after a certain stage of being and general awareness and understanding of your body, life, and the interactions are well wired, but its welcome still. Ive smoked cigarettes and cigars and...in every possible method and all that before, and i'd say...that kind of tobacco probably actually all considered, would be a net negative. It might have minor net positive in rare situations, but its drawbacks are too much to overcome and it would probably lead to depression cause it affects breathing and other things. Entirely pure tobacco smoked in an entirely pure way, avoiding hitting or inhaling the ash, without a doubt, would prolong life if you wanted that, and if you didn't want that, it would help you also. I cant think of a good analogy to use but its like a guardian of the soul...but again, it has to be delicately done and pure or its going to have drawbacks. And also, again, it responds to your state of being. To a non spiritual person, a non artistic person, to someone totally mundane living in a totally physical/chemical viewpoint of life, it might not be that big a deal, a mild stimulant or sedative at best. To a spiritual person who sees life metaphysically (while still understanding that physical reality is a part of things...correlated), its in the very top of greatest substances to have. Its no coincidence that non spiritual people never even have the desire to use pure tobacco in a pure way or understand it from that perspective. Its kind of like that with everything in life. You see and seek and receive what your intentions, collection of potential energies, and perspective are

I've been interested in tobacco ever since reading the post that questioned whether or not it actually caused cancer and so many bad effects, I have one question though what about Carbon Monoxide? Other than that I am of legal age to try it out (with a pipe, and following your advice) but I'm still unsure about it. But, as I said in another post, I'm mainly here to have a good outlook on life, a bigger brain and more creativity and ability to get things done, like write a book which is something I've been wanting to do for a long time but always get frustrated after the first chapter even though everyone who reads it says it's great I just can't figure out what to do and get so overwhelmed by the fact that realistically it takes a while to write a book. Anyways, I've heard it said that many ppl were at the height of their creative career when they were smoking a lot, so I'm just curious about it for the creativity aspect mostly.