Caffeine Is A Serotonin Receptor Antagonist

[haidut]

could an increase in cortisol from coffee raise serotonin then?

Dopamine is a TPH inhibitor so I doubt it. Caffeine has also been found to lower TPH increased by stress.
Caffeine inhibits exercise-induced increase in tryptophan hydroxylase expression in dorsal and median raphe of Sprague-Dawley rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[docall18]

Yes the straight to the toilet effect... I'm pretty sure that happens for most people no?

Ya i get this straight to d toilet effect also. I wonder if it is due to increased dopamine? Think drugs like cocaine that are known for this effect...

 

[ddjd]

Ya i get this straight to d toilet effect also. I wonder if it is due to increased dopamine? Think drugs like cocaine that are known for this effect...

nicotine also has this effect and i believe it raises dopamine. you could be onto something

 

[ddjd]

Ya i get this straight to d toilet effect also. I wonder if it is due to increased dopamine? Think drugs like cocaine that are known for this effect...

I was thinking more about this and I realised haiduts diamant is a potent Dopamine agonist and it doesn't have this effect at all of making me rush for a no. 2. So I still think it's a Serotonin issue

 

[docall18]

I was thinking more about this and I realised haiduts diamant is a potent Dopamine agonist and it doesn't have this effect at all of making me rush for a no. 2. So I still think it's a Serotonin issue

Try caffeine instead of coffee.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

I think caffeine raise Adrenaline when you don't have enought blood sugar or glycogen to support metabolism. I don't think it raises Serotonin but if you get hypoglycemic then that might increase Serotonin. I also have Serotonin and Histamine issues, tend to get fatigued often especially in the morning. Does any one have suggestion on Mast Cells stabilizers ?. I know of vitamin e and c.

 

[haidut]

Does any one have suggestion on Mast Cells stabilizers ?

Theanine is a great OTC option. You can search the forum for "theanine mast cells". And ketotifen/cyproheptadine are potent pharmacological options.

 

[BigChad]

Theanine is a great OTC option. You can search the forum for "theanine mast cells". And ketotifen/cyproheptadine are potent pharmacological options.

are there any negative effects of theanine on hormones, neurotransmitters, body composition or anything else. or is it all around positive? Im interested in it, but dont want to take it if it has side effects. ive seen several complaints on here and reddit regarding theanine, that it ruined erections for some people, caused fatigue, among other things.

 

[postman]

Correction, smoking tobacco does

Nicotine itself stimulates gastric secretions.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

In my experience Theanine promotes relaxation without sedation. Taurine seems more sedating to me. probably has more of a GABA like action? if anyone can elaborate more on that would be apreciated.

 

[Frankdee20]

In my experience Theanine promotes relaxation without sedation. Taurine seems more sedating to me. probably has more of a GABA like action? if anyone can elaborate more on that would be apreciated.

It's possible Taurine has its own receptor sites

 

[Frankdee20]

Yes the straight to the toilet effect... I'm pretty sure that happens for most people no?

That’s from caffeine or coffee ? Because coffee oils can be a bit harsh on the gut, and it also blocks opiate receptors in the gut.. we all know opiates are constipating

 

[Mauritio]

There's a flaw /bias in this logic:

So increasing serotonin receptor density is seen as a good thing. Because less serotonin leads to upregulation of the receptor density. Okay,so far so good. But if that logic applies to serotonin it has to apply to dopamine as well:

And as it turns out caffeine increases dopamine D2/D3 receptor density...by lowering dopamine release.
(Caffeine increases striatal dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability in the human brain - PubMed)
(Can Chronic Consumption of Caffeine by Increasing D2/D3 Receptors Offer Benefit to Carriers of the DRD2 A1 Allele in Cocaine Abuse?)

Somehow Peaters manage to paint that as a positive thing, when the same mechanism a minute ago was seen as detrimental.

If serotonin receptors increase and that means serotonin inside the brain went down. Then if dopamine receptors increase it means that dopamine inside the brain went down, which is generally seen as a bad thing.

And if one argues the reverse and says it's bad that caffeine increases serotonin receptor than at least its good that it increases dopamine receptors .

One way or another this study doesn't allow to paint an exclusively positive picture of caffeine's effects.

Also by applying the original logic of this study that would mean caffeine lowers GABA twice as much as it lowers serotonin. Which should be taken into account before supplementing.


Not sure if my point comes across, but it seems like people claim a certain mechanism is good as long as it fits their own narrative, which is a bias we probably all carry to some extent, but I still think it's worth pointing out for the sake of getting to the bottom of things, meaning the closest thing to the truth.

Now I'm not saying don't drink coffee/ dont take caffeine. Especially the observational human studies on coffee drinkers are pretty convincing. But it's always good to look at something unbiased. Plus, coffee has a lot more to offer than caffeine.

 

[Frankdee20]

Caffeine more than anything is a specific Adenosine receptor antagonist, nothing else. This effects other neurotransmitters indirectly though.

 

[BRMarshall]

There's a flaw /bias in this logic:

So increasing serotonin receptor density is seen as a good thing. Because less serotonin leads to upregulation of the receptor density. Okay,so far so good. But if that logic applies to serotonin it has to apply to dopamine as well:

And as it turns out caffeine increases dopamine D2/D3 receptor density...by lowering dopamine release.
(Caffeine increases striatal dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability in the human brain - PubMed)
(Can Chronic Consumption of Caffeine by Increasing D2/D3 Receptors Offer Benefit to Carriers of the DRD2 A1 Allele in Cocaine Abuse?)

Somehow Peaters manage to paint that as a positive thing, when the same mechanism a minute ago was seen as detrimental.

If serotonin receptors increase and that means serotonin inside the brain went down. Then if dopamine receptors increase it means that dopamine inside the brain went down, which is generally seen as a bad thing.

And if one argues the reverse and says it's bad that caffeine increases serotonin receptor than at least its good that it increases dopamine receptors .

One way or another this study doesn't allow to paint an exclusively positive picture of caffeine's effects.

Also by applying the original logic of this study that would mean caffeine lowers GABA twice as much as it lowers serotonin. Which should be taken into account before supplementing.


Not sure if my point comes across, but it seems like people claim a certain mechanism is good as long as it fits their own narrative, which is a bias we probably all carry to some extent, but I still think it's worth pointing out for the sake of getting to the bottom of things, meaning the closest thing to the truth.

Now I'm not saying don't drink coffee/ dont take caffeine. Especially the observational human studies on coffee drinkers are pretty convincing. But it's always good to look at something unbiased. Plus, coffee has a lot more to offer than caffeine.

Great post, as your point does come across clear especially in whipping the cream on top by the proper observation that:

"it seems like people laim a cerain mechanism is good as long as it fits their own narrative, which is a bias we all carry to some extent"

I have enjoyed coffee and I believe with some good things, but recently from one of these threads, the issue of cortisol was brought up, which now avoidance of aggrevaton from chronic cortisol elevation, in theory, being a new narrative that is being presently enjoyed. Cycling is probably beneficial as one cycles narratives!

 

[Sitaruîm]

There's a flaw /bias in this logic:

So increasing serotonin receptor density is seen as a good thing. Because less serotonin leads to upregulation of the receptor density. Okay,so far so good. But if that logic applies to serotonin it has to apply to dopamine as well:

And as it turns out caffeine increases dopamine D2/D3 receptor density...by lowering dopamine release.
(Caffeine increases striatal dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability in the human brain - PubMed)
(Can Chronic Consumption of Caffeine by Increasing D2/D3 Receptors Offer Benefit to Carriers of the DRD2 A1 Allele in Cocaine Abuse?)

Somehow Peaters manage to paint that as a positive thing, when the same mechanism a minute ago was seen as detrimental.

If serotonin receptors increase and that means serotonin inside the brain went down. Then if dopamine receptors increase it means that dopamine inside the brain went down, which is generally seen as a bad thing.

And if one argues the reverse and says it's bad that caffeine increases serotonin receptor than at least its good that it increases dopamine receptors .

One way or another this study doesn't allow to paint an exclusively positive picture of caffeine's effects.

Also by applying the original logic of this study that would mean caffeine lowers GABA twice as much as it lowers serotonin. Which should be taken into account before supplementing.


Not sure if my point comes across, but it seems like people claim a certain mechanism is good as long as it fits their own narrative, which is a bias we probably all carry to some extent, but I still think it's worth pointing out for the sake of getting to the bottom of things, meaning the closest thing to the truth.

Now I'm not saying don't drink coffee/ dont take caffeine. Especially the observational human studies on coffee drinkers are pretty convincing. But it's always good to look at something unbiased. Plus, coffee has a lot more to offer than caffeine.

I am bumping this because it's yet unanswered and I want to know what others have to say.

 

[Mauritio]

I am bumping this because it's yet unanswered and I want to know what others have to say.

I dont think you'll get an answer. It's too convenient to ignore.