Optimal Dose Of Caffeine In Humans

[cb4]

I had to change coffee brands because I ran out of the one I was using and yet continued drinking the same amount. Lo and behold I ended up after a couple of days feeling like I was going to have a heart attack, my body became highly stressed. There is definitely a sweet spot concerning caffeine and and its effects, also you cannot predict the caffeine content of coffee, especially when using high end exotic brands that may use unconventional roasting methods. I have had friends who are heavy coffee drinkers get really bad reactions from some of the crazy exotic blends that I brew.

 

[DaveFoster]

Here's a study that says 3 mg/kg caffeine is ergogenic, while 6 mg/kg elevates epinephrine. Considering its half-life, doses above around 600 mg/day will tend to raise epinephrine in most people, so do you think this is a good cutoff whereat thyroid (T3 and T4) supplementation should begin to raise temps and pulse in the place of larger amounts of caffeine (for example 800 - 1600 mg)?

Ray Peat: "As long as it isn’t increasing free fatty acids and glycerol I think it’s safe, and I suspect that there might be beneficial effects other than ergogenic at the higher doses. Unless a person is in the habit of regularly running to exhaustion, that kind of study isn’t very useful."

 

[superhuman]

@DaveFoster great question and thanx for providing the answer from Ray. Seems like coffee is beneficial at any dose as long as you don`t create stress from it

 

[sladerunner69]

Here's a study that says 3 mg/kg caffeine is ergogenic, while 6 mg/kg elevates epinephrine. Considering its half-life, doses above around 600 mg/day will tend to raise epinephrine in most people, so do you think this is a good cutoff whereat thyroid (T3 and T4) supplementation should begin to raise temps and pulse in the place of larger amounts of caffeine (for example 800 - 1600 mg)?

Ray Peat: "As long as it isn’t increasing free fatty acids and glycerol I think it’s safe, and I suspect that there might be beneficial effects other than ergogenic at the higher doses. Unless a person is in the habit of regularly running to exhaustion, that kind of study isn’t very useful."

What is the context of Ray's toughts abotu a person running to exaustion? Did you ask him something about endurance training before this?

 

[DaveFoster]

@sladerunner69

I'm sure he thinks it's stressful.

 

[vulture]

Many people on the forum and elsewhere take caffeine for its pro-metabolic and disease-preventing effects. However, caffeine can induce a stress response. This is especially true in people with poor glycogen stores, liver problems, and hypothyroidism in general. This study says that a human dose of 3mg/kg did not induce any increase in epinephrine (adrenaline) while still being highly ergogenic and not weaker than the higher dose of 6mg/kg. Only the highest dose of 9mg/kg increased free fatty acids, which is what Ray advises against.
Given that caffeine half-life is about 5-6 hours, this means 3mg/kg twice a day should not induce a stress response.

Metabolic, catecholamine, and exercise performance responses to various doses of caffeine. - PubMed - NCBI

"...Endurance was enhanced with both 3 and 6 mg/kg of caffeine (increases of 22 +/- 9 and 22 +/- 7%, respectively; both P < 0.05) over the placebo time of 49.4 +/- 4.2 min, whereas there was no significant effect with 9 mg/kg of caffeine. In contrast, plasma epinephrine was not increased with 3 mg/kg of caffeine but was greater with the higher doses (P < 0.05). Similarly only the highest dose of caffeine resulted in increases in glycerol and free fatty acids (P < 0.05). Thus the highest dose had the greatest effect on epinephrine and blood-borne metabolites yet had the least effect on performance. The lowest dose had little or no effect on epinephrine and metabolites but did have an ergogenic effect. These results are not compatible with the traditional theory that caffeine mediates its ergogenic effect via enhanced catecholamines."

Finding Potent Sirt Inhibitor in Coffee: Isolation, Confirmation and Synthesis of Javamide-II (N-Caffeoyltryptophan) as Sirt1/2 Inhibitor
I hope it could be useful

 

[theLaw]

This is one of the best advertisements for caffeine I've ever seen....



The smaller girl's intake is around 1000mg/day.

 

[benaoao]

A ham planet vs a mega skinny chick.

Gotta love how humans will never be interested in balance

 

[accelerator]

Thyroid CAN raise both epinephrine and cortisol. In fact, it increase the turnover of both.

Didn't know this. Are you referring to T3 alone, or in combo?

And do you only mean in light of insufficient calories/carbs?

Ray has been quoted saying too too much T3 can go to reverse T3, but then when asked about it he said that was incorrect; a misquote.

 

[haidut]

Didn't know this. Are you referring to T3 alone, or in combo?

And do you only mean in light of insufficient calories/carbs?

Ray has been quoted saying too too much T3 can go to reverse T3, but then when asked about it he said that was incorrect; a misquote.

Any thyroid hormone can increase turnover of epinephrine/cortisol, and as Peat said thyroid can make a person more sensitive to epinephrine. Only T4 can raise rT3, T3 cannot.

 

[milkboi]

I wonder if talking about dosages in those absolute terms that is done in the study and in this thread is really accurate. Wouldn‘t a person‘s tolerance greatly influence the effect on FFA and stress in general? Wouldn‘t 400mg maybe be way too high for someone‘s first ever dose of caffeine, whereas 400mg wouldn‘t raise my stress levels at all. And if it did it would be because it‘s too little of a dose lol.

 

[theLaw]

I wonder if talking about dosages in those absolute terms that is done in the study and in this thread is really accurate. Wouldn‘t a person‘s tolerance greatly influence the effect on FFA and stress in general? Wouldn‘t 400mg maybe be way too high for someone‘s first ever dose of caffeine, whereas 400mg wouldn‘t raise my stress levels at all. And if it did it would be because it‘s too little of a dose lol.

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

 

[NewACC]

whenever I have any amount of caffeine I crash. Even a soda. I drink OJ ,milk, get all my vitamins and copper and magnesium and zinc and yet even after a can of soda I will be brain-foggy/lethargic afterwords. I think caffiene mimics progesterone which antagonized DHT causing my hypogonad to get bad.

Caffeine reduce 5-ar only in VERY HUGE doses. It's HED is equal or higher than 600mg for human