Bingeing On Porn

[ilikecats]

@Jing he said it CAN in SOME instances and the key word is “insatiable”. A high libido is part of having a good physiology. And just because you're having sex doesn't mean you're not sexually repressed, that's not how it works (once again im explaining basic things about reality) . And if not cumming "works" (emphasis on quotes) for you than cool.

@lampofred Wow man I dont even know how to get things through to you, you seem to be mentally impaired in some way... he was making a statement about a significant aspect of a certain culture (with many implications and subtopics) and part of that is the idea of caloric restriction as beneficial which he goes on to talk about... it's both. Jeez did you have Aspergers flakes for breakfast.

"Being alive is good for you. But our culture is saturated
with arguments to the contrary-that it is life which kills us,
and self-denial which sustains us. It is always easier to blame
the victim than to search for the real cause of a problem. In
this chapter I will give some of the arguments in favor of life
and more life, or rather, some of the evidence from which
those arguments can be made."

notice the proof in the use of the word ARGUMENTS, PLURAL, SATURATED WITH THEM- MANY . This is a common themes he brings up often.

more wasted time...

BTW @Jing you just totally contradicted yourself in the most ridiculous way... so sex without cumming is fine.... but it's still pleasurable? In fact you just seemed to imply that it was better than sex with orgasm... hmmm

“Well said, it's crazy to think something with so much pleasure won't have consequences.“

 

[Jing]

he said it CAN in SOME instances and the key word is “insatiable”. A high libido is part of having a good physiology. And just because you're having sex doesn't mean you're not sexually repressed, that's not how it works (once again im explaining basic things about reality) . And if not cumming "works" (emphasis on quotes) for you than cool.

Having the urge to masterbate isn't high libido.

 

[postman]

never go full peatard

 

[ilikecats]

@Jing More nonsense. Says you based off of some made up BS from a guy posting on the nofap reddit. where is any proof of that? libido is a desire for sexual activity, not desire for a specific sexual activity. lets just change reality to whatever dumbass whim you have.

what a waste of time you're an idiot

more ridiculousness. is having the urge for sexual activity libido? It could be either or! sex or masturbation. wow think about that....

 

[Jing]

@Jing More nonsense. Says you based off of some made up BS from a guy posting on the nofap reddit. where is any proof of that? libido is a desire for sexual activity, not desire for a specific sexual activity. lets just change reality to whatever dumbass whim you have.

what a waste of time you're an idiot

You just don't understand there is a difference from needing to and wanting too... Looks like you are getting called out on your addiction and your getting angry lol

 

[lampofred]

@Jing he said it CAN in SOME instances and the key word is “insatiable”. A high libido is part of having a good physiology. And just because you're having sex doesn't mean you're not sexually repressed, that's not how it works (once again im explaining basic things about reality) . And if not cumming "works" (emphasis on quotes) for you than cool.

@lampofred Wow man I dont even know how to get things through to you, you seem to be mentally impaired in some way... he was making a statement about a significant aspect of a certain culture (with many implications and subtopics) and part of that is the idea of caloric restriction as beneficial which he goes on to talk about... it's both. Jeez did you have Aspergers flakes for breakfast.

"Being alive is good for you. But our culture is saturated
with arguments to the contrary-that it is life which kills us,
and self-denial which sustains us. It is always easier to blame
the victim than to search for the real cause of a problem. In
this chapter I will give some of the arguments in favor of life
and more life, or rather, some of the evidence from which
those arguments can be made."

notice the proof in the use of the word ARGUMENTS, PLURAL, SATURATED WITH THEM- MANY . This is a common themes he brings up often.

more wasted time...

You're either not understanding what he means by more life or you're choosing not to understand because you can't accept that masturbation isn't good for you. When he says self-denial, he is talking about things like not pursuing your dreams and resigning yourself to your fate/duty and things like that. Not small things like masturbation. By your reasoning alcoholism is good for you. You're assuming that orgasm is the equivalent to living at a higher metabolic rate (by eating more and taking more thyroid), that they are both "more life." But it's obvious that they have opposite effects because the former lowers temperature and heart rate (after adrenaline wears off), whereas the latter increases temps and heart rate. Even the numbers show that orgasm is less life.

No one is saying that you have to be perfect. If you want to masturbate then masturbate. But you don't have to say it's good for you, you can admit that it's not good for you but it feels too good to stop. Which is acceptable. Again sex is different than masturbation because sex is stimulating if it's good, masturbation is just one-way and loss of energy. I actually think Peat himself makes that comment in Mind and Tissue.

Don't call me impaired/autistic because you are the one who is only considering the literal definition of what he's saying and not the actual purpose/meaning behind his words.

Anyway I already said I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just sharing my viewpoint, so I'm done going back and forth with you.

 

[Jing]

@ilikecats Relationship between sexual satiety and brain androgen receptors. - PubMed - NCBI androgen receptor density is lower.

 

[redsun]

@lampofred I’m not quoting him out of context... I’m using a generalized statement he made that could and does relate to multiple things including this topic... (carb denial , saturated fat denial ,etc)

“He’s not saying that anything that makes you feel good is good for you.” Wow, amazing insight. I never said that he did and obviously he (and I) don’t think that. I brought it up because it was relavent to the statement jing made and this topic as a whole... I can’t believe I have to explain all this. If you can’t see how dumb and problematic a statement like this is I don’t know what to say:

“Well said, it's crazy to think something with so much pleasure won't have consequences.“

In a desire to not waste anymore time I’m not posting anymore in this circle jerk of a thread. jerking off would be a much better use of anyone’s time. Have fun being sexually repressed and scientifically/reality illiterate. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there’s just no hope for some of you guys.

This is probably the only time I will say ditto on an internet forum. Eventually one has to evolve beyond repression and look to reality and scientific understanding to make sense of the world. You would think such an outlook would be the dominant perspective here, but many still cling to morals based around shame and fear instilled into them to suppress human nature and control every aspect of their finite lives.

True, yet irrelevant. A harmful act is not made beneficial just by being able to withstand its consequences. At best, a non-beneficial action can become consequentially insignificant. This alone is a poor justification for indulging in it.


Is this what you know, or what you want to think? To me it looks like pure speculation on your part. Prolactin for example stays elevated for several days, released in lessening waves until homeostasis is once again reached.

If you are equating ejaculation to a harmful act then you are delusional. If you are unhealthy sexual function can and often will be compromised. I used to have refractory periods from ejaculation when I was in poor health. I no longer due. I dont have negative effects such as temporary fatigue, tiredness, sleepiness. There are many things that can raise prolactin, I have never seen research suggesting ejaculation supposedly keeps prolactin elevated for days. If you have good hormonal status, the hormonal effects of ejaculation are not problematic.

Here in the lies the problem with you moralistic hippies. You do not need justification to do anything. Justification is based off of moral codes, not science or reality. If you need justification on whether or not you should orgasm you are mentally ill. I need no such thing. Scientific literature has never proven that ejaculation, orgasm, whatever is inheritantly bad for humans. And it never will. You know why? Because humans are sexual creatures, with a biological purpose to reproduce. You are inclined to reproduce and are rewarded in your brain for doing so. Brain reward is not the main reason though, as you can easily say cocaine is good. We have biology that is majorly geared towards sex, we do not have a biology meant for snorting cocaine.

Sexuality is adaptive. You have conditioned yourself to frequent release, thus your body now requires it. It would be a mistake to interpret blinding libido as a state of healthiness. Healthy libido is always present, never overwhelming. If your experience is something else, you are for one reason or another experiencing an inability to harness your sexual energy for other pursuits. Of course, if all you do is sit around and fantasize about girls, you are going to get little out of this.

Sexuality is adaptive, so what? Like I said, no justification is needed to engage in sexual acts of any kind, or to ejaculate. I have sex and do PMO because I enjoy it, I will not "adapt" my sexuality to less sex and porn, why would I? High Libido is not a sign of good health, otherwise we would be considering horny goat weed the key to eternal life. This is not related at all to the matter. I have ever present libido, again what is your dam point? You are suggesting I do not have other pursuits besides getting my **** wet? Do you really believe a man can not say.. become a doctor and also satisfy any sexual needs he has? Wtf is up with this nonsense I keep hearing on this thread? That you can't have both? You cant have a strong libido to satisfy and also have long term pursuits of success. Do you all really find yourself lacking in energy and drive just because you PMO or ejaculate? I do not have such a problem.

There is no such thing as "sexual energy" like in the way you are suggesting. This is simply your sex hormones creating an "energy" that is meant for sex. The fact that you are bringing up magical sexual energy is seriously discrediting. Testosterone is elevated higher than normal when you have not orgasmed. 7 days abstained you reach peak levels then they die down and are just slightly elevated beyond normal. That is "sexual energy".

Like Muhammad Ali? Are you comfortable with claiming his absolute dominance over every other boxer of his time had nothing to do with his willingness to abstain for months before every fight? The top individuals of any field, nearly without exception, have highly developed sexual natures. They have mastered their own sexualities to the point where they are no longer hindered by them. They don't feel the need for "sexual release" as you put it, rather, they have learned to embrace it and allow it to energize them in other pursuits.

Ah yes, one example out of many athletes. Apparently not ejaculating will make you the best boxer in the world. What a load of crap. You have to be incredibly delusional to believe in such nonsense. Oh you seem to forget Ali was a serious "sex addict" likely because of his long periods of abstaining from sex as well. The reason I put sex addict in quotes is because there is no such thing. Its always the ones that try to control their instincts the most that have problems with control once they finally let loose. Even the greatest boxer of his time can't ignore his biology. Would Ali have been the best boxer if he never trained and just stopped jacked off? Of course not, you like to talk a lot of game how not jacking off will make you the best at anything but there is yet to be solid scientific proof of this.

never go full peatard

You really are chained deep into slave morality.

No one is saying that you have to be perfect. If you want to masturbate then masturbate. But you don't have to say it's good for you, you can admit that it's not good for you but it feels too good to stop. Which is acceptable.

Good one. Now prove masturbation, porn, and/or sex with ejaculation is "not good for you". You can't. You ride on philosophy and moralistic ramblings like everyone else in this shitshow of a thread. Talk a big game, but in reality you have to be mentally impaired in some way to keep saying something is true when there is no evidence of this. I like to think I can escape from the unscientific vomit when I come to the peat forum, how wrong was I. You live in a cloud of rules and regulations and you are convinced they are right regardless of reality.

 

[postman]

You really are chained deep into slave morality.

You funny comedian. Why don't you take opiates every day? If you don't do harmful things for quick cheap pleasure you are a SLAAAVE!! You're either autistic or narcissistic.

 

[redsun]

You funny comedian. Why don't you take opiates every day? If you don't do harmful things for quick cheap pleasure you are a SLAAAVE!! You're either autistic or narcissistic.

Because human physiology is not designed for opiates just like its not designed for snorting cocaine or smoking weed. Opiates have also been proven to cause serious problems both mental and physical. In the short term can be used for those with very bad pain to relieve pain without long term consequences. I thought that would be obvious? Try a little harder not to look stupid will you?

 

[ilikecats]

@Jing yeah that why im getting frustrated. Not because you keep saying dumb ***t and then when I address it your changing the subject and acting like you have some type of insight into anything. And you blatantly contradicted yourself with your statement on pleasure. There's no point in talking to you. You can't even hold a conversation. Are you sure you're having sex because you want to or because you "need to". You can be "addicted" (emphasis on quotes) to masturbation but not sex? Im having partner sex and masturbation, I like both your whole paradigm of addiction is bunk.

@lampofred you're so ridiculous masturbation is not harmful to health and Ray agrees with me as I've showed. You dont know what he means by more life, Ray Peats not so simplistic that everything he says has a direct singular meaning, especially when he waxes poetic like that. You've clearly never read William Blake. Life can be food or any aspects related to that or what gives you life, pleasure, enjoyment. I've never had a reduction in heart rate or temperature after masturbating. Its funny because you're the one doing no fap and my heart rate is 20-35 bpm higher than yours (105-120) and my body temperature is at least a full degree higher than yours (99.6-101).

"when he says self-denial, he is talking about things like not pursuing your dreams" yeah that's what our US culture is all about (sarcasm), that's what he's talking about. This is Peat not Tony Robbins. And first you say its about caloric restriction now its about not "chasing your dreams"?. It probably doesn't have anything to do with realizing that many of the things that feel good and taste good are actually good for us and that we've been taught to associate the pleasure with harm and vice versa ("This tastes like tree bark it must be good for me"). And this relates directly to caloric restriction.

"By your reasoning alcoholism is good for you." yep that's what I think. The person who hasn't had a drink in over 2 years for health reasons thinks that alcoholism is good for you.

"The production of euphoria has been mentioned as a side effect, but I think euphoria is simply an indication of a good physiological state.”- Ray Peat "By Rays reasoning heroin is good for you!"- lampofred Yep that's what peat is saying! god you don t get anything unless everything is spelled out for you. You dont understand how language works.

My position is that masturbating isn't bad for you and it does have some beneficial effects.

 

[Jing]

@ilikecats if ejaculating is so good why do I find it harder to get erect for a few days after? Why do I get itchy scalp? Why do I get worse sleep? Why do I have less energy? Why does it give me a flare up of my prostatitis? Why does it give me hard flaccid?

 

[redsun]

@ilikecats if ejaculating is so good why do I find it harder to get erect for a few days after? Why do I get itchy scalp? Why do I get worse sleep? Why do I have less energy? Why does it give me a flare up of my prostatitis? Why does it give me hard flaccid?

Because you have a health problem. Weren't you already told this? Memory problems as well it seems.

 

[lampofred]

Good one. Now prove masturbation, porn, and/or sex with ejaculation is "not good for you". You can't. You ride on philosophy and moralistic ramblings like everyone else in this shitshow of a thread. Talk a big game, but in reality you have to be mentally impaired in some way to keep saying something is true when there is no evidence of this. I like to think I can escape from the unscientific vomit when I come to the peat forum, how wrong was I. You live in a cloud of rules and regulations and you are convinced they are right regardless of reality.

I've said several times just take your pulse and temperature about an hour after masturbating and compare it to pulse and temps you've taken for several days (maybe once a day for a week at the same time of day because apparently testosterone has a 7 day refractory) before without an orgasm. Your pulse and temps will go down, your metabolism will slow. In a Peat forum that should be enough to say something is bad for you. If you can measure your blood sugar you will see your blood sugar went down (not in a good way, in a demobilizing way). Masturbation helps you cope with learned helplessness, I've heard about a study that showed monkeys masturbate only in captivity.

I've always supported what I'm saying with something you can measure, I've never brought up moralistic reasons. It's just you and ilikecats whose only reasoning is that "it's natural so it's good for you" and getting aggressive and calling me mentally impaired. Peat says learned helplessness and serotonin/nitric oxide are closely associated with aggression.

Anyway I'm done with this, you are not going to convince me otherwise, I am not going to convince you otherwise. This is going to go nowhere if it continues. I agree to disagree.

 

[Jing]

Because you have a health problem. Weren't you already told this? Memory problems as well it seems.

That is exactly why I can feel the negative problems associated with ejaculating ... Ejaculating clearly isn't helping you and @ilikecats be healthy because being rude like you two are shows you are not healthy. If you feel good you feel no need to be rude. I like how you skipped over the study I posted

 

[postman]

Because human physiology is not designed for opiates just like its not designed for snorting cocaine or smoking weed. Opiates have also been proven to cause serious problems both mental and physical. In the short term can be used for those with very bad pain to relieve pain without long term consequences. I thought that would be obvious? Try a little harder not to look stupid will you?

And human physiology is made for watching high intensity porn for hours on end? You're the one who looks dumb.

 

[ilikecats]

@Jing I’ll say I was a little harsh, I’ll give you that but I’m not apologizing. And you’re kind of feigning innocence here I feel, you were kind of a ****. Anyway, I’ve seen that study before and so what? It lowered “androgen receptor density” that basically means achieving sexual satiety was androgenic. You’ll see the same thing done to dopamine receptors when you drink caffeine due to its dopamine agonism. The overall effect is pushing the organism in the right direction. Dopamine antagonists increase dopamine receptor density and those drugs are a nightmare and they are FUNCTIONALLY as a whole anti-dopaminergic and cause all the problems related to a lack of dopamine. I’m not making any claims that it was wildly androgenic or anything, I’m sure the effect was relatively mild.

 

[redsun]

I've said several times just take your pulse and temperature about an hour after masturbating and compare it to pulse and temps you've taken for several days (maybe once a day for a week at the same time of day because apparently testosterone has a 7 day refractory) before without an orgasm. Your pulse and temps will go down, your metabolism will slow. In a Peat forum that should be enough to say something is bad for you. If you can measure your blood sugar you will see your blood sugar went down (not in a good way, in a demobilizing way). Masturbation helps you cope with learned helplessness, I've heard about a study that showed monkeys masturbate only in captivity.

I've always supported what I'm saying with something you can measure, I've never brought up moralistic reasons. It's just you and ilikecats whose only reasoning is that "it's natural so it's good for you" and getting aggressive and calling me mentally impaired. Peat says learned helplessness and serotonin/nitric oxide are closely associated with aggression.

Anyway I'm done with this, you are not going to convince me otherwise, I am not going to convince you otherwise. This is going to go nowhere if it continues. I agree to disagree.

I'll humor you and record temps and pulse.

First of all, humans aren't monkeys. Did the monkeys have lady monkeys with them? No ***t if you put humans in captivity would they resort to new behaviors to cope.

Second of all there are many ways to cope with learned helplessness. Masturbation can be one, so can overeating, drinking alcohol... this is not exclusive to masturbation nor is PMO or sex of any kind indicative of a state of learned helplessness. I PMO and have sex, supposedly I would be considered a sex addict, porn addict, what have you. Nonsensical to say the least.

Your attempt at looking like the level-headed intelligent one isn't panning out. Especially when you disregard what I am saying and just say I have high serotonin/nitric oxide. I probably did increase my serotonin levels arguing with religious fools in this thread, you got that right. There was an attempt at debate here that just turned into basically moralistic nonsense from virtually everyone in the thread. Do not paint me and @ilikecats as the bad one here when we aren't the ones spouting unscientific nonsense and stick to logic and reality.

I don't recall ever saying masturbation is "good for you". I do recall saying sexual activity is natural and we have an inclination to sexual activity of all kinds because its part of our biology.

And human physiology is made for watching high intensity porn for hours on end? You're the one who looks dumb.

Who watches porn for hours on end...? Humans have a natural instinct for sexual activity of all kinds, porn is sexual by nature, thats why people watch it. Duh. Humans do not have a natural instinct for seeking drugs like they seek sex, the only reason drugs work and are used over and over is because they manipulate the brain in a way that was never meant to be manipulated. Try again.

In a natural environment, humans would never watch porn because there would be not technology like electricity. But because porn activates our instincts for sexual activity it dictates that it is not harmful like you would like to think. You can just make the argument that toilets aren't natural therefore bad. I am not trying to use a pure naturalist argument here.

As for the rest of you, I have dealt with religious ramblings long enough. This thread is a complete embarassment to this community especially because of the unrelenting moralistic vomit that has implanted itself here. I hope at least we all learned something, however little it was.

 

[Jing]

@Jing I’ll say I was a little harsh, I’ll give you that but I’m not apologizing. And you’re kind of feigning innocence here I feel, you were kind of a ****. Anyway, I’ve seen that study before and so what? It lowered “androgen receptor density” that basically means achieving sexual satiety was androgenic. You’ll see the same thing done to dopamine receptors when you drink caffeine due to its dopamine agonism. The overall effect is pushing the organism in the right direction. Dopamine antagonists increase dopamine receptor density and those drugs are a nightmare and they are FUNCTIONALLY as a whole anti-dopaminergic and cause all the problems related to a lack of dopamine. I’m not making any claims that it was wildly androgenic or anything, I’m sure the effect was relatively mild.

I was never an **** I never was rude to you I was just stating what I believe ... If androgen receptor density is lowered that means testosterone can't activate that receptor as good, this isn't a good thing.

 

[Serotoninja]

@Jing I’ll say I was a little harsh, I’ll give you that but I’m not apologizing. And you’re kind of feigning innocence here I feel, you were kind of a ****. Anyway, I’ve seen that study before and so what? It lowered “androgen receptor density” that basically means achieving sexual satiety was androgenic. You’ll see the same thing done to dopamine receptors when you drink caffeine due to its dopamine agonism. The overall effect is pushing the organism in the right direction. Dopamine antagonists increase dopamine receptor density and those drugs are a nightmare and they are FUNCTIONALLY as a whole anti-dopaminergic and cause all the problems related to a lack of dopamine. I’m not making any claims that it was wildly androgenic or anything, I’m sure the effect was relatively mild.

Androgens have been shown to increase the AR density though, you have a very simplistic view of "receptors".
Interesting too:
Increased estrogen receptor alpha immunoreactivity in the forebrain of sexually satiated rats.