Bingeing On Porn

[redsun]

It depends on the level of pleasure, like pleasure that changes your consciousness will be damaging.

You really are unbelievable suggesting for even a second there is a possibility negative consequences from watching children play. Wtf?

Dopamine makes time seemingly speed up. High dopamine speeds up our perception of time, "changing the consciousness". This is where the saying "Time flies when you're having fun" originates from. Increasing and decreasing dopamine causes changes on consciousness. I am not familiar with other neurotransmitters effects on time perception, but I do know dopamine is closely linked to the internal clock. This is not inheritantly bad if you live a life that is keeping dopamine higher compared to taking cocaine to achieve your dopamine high which causes known issues with the brain.

 

[Jing]

You really are unbelievable suggesting for even a second there is a possibility negative consequences from watching children play. Wtf?

Calm down I never said that, I highly doubt watching his kids play is on the same level I am talking about.

 

[redsun]

Calm down I never said that, I highly doubt watching his kids play is on the same level I am talking about.

Read your previous post again because you clearly do not understand that is exactly what you implied.

 

[Jing]

Read it, I never implied that..

 

[CDT]

There is no effect. Any effect is largely mental, completely in your head. Take some zinc for a few days if you want. You'll live.



I don't know how you go about offering advice that he didnt ask for but on that note...


@CDT I am not sure why you are doing nofap, whether its to get laid, or some spiritual nonsense, or for "self-improvement". Learn from someone who is gone on much longer streaks then you, its mental. The temporary minor positive effects is caused by built up sexual tension which is not good in the long run. Also your own confidence is improved because you no longer do the thing your ashamed about. It won't make you a better man, or better at talking with girls, or give you the energy to be successful or whatever ***t people are still doing this thing for.

The moment I broke my longest streak is the moment I realized what a literal pile of ***t it was. I was literally a chick magnet as soon as I broke my streak, and a people magnet in general. Do you know why? Because I stopped shaming myself for caving in to urges, this lifted a great weight off my shoulder, and not being ashamed of your sexual urges rubs off on women around you. Being a free man not bound by the moralistic vomit that is the nofap mentality improved my health. Never did it again after that.

I really appreciate your response. I think, for me, I just cant fap and be alright with myself. I really do believe that there is some essence in the human body that is lost when conducting this activity, though, and maybe my thoughts have created this reality

Oddly, after my last relapse, I didnt spiral into the depression that I usually spiral into. I have never binged 6 times within a two day period, but it happened, and I felt...less bad...than when I fapped once after being abstinent for 3 months!

 

[kyle]

It is a curious thing when the "unashamed" exert so much time and energy defending their behavior.

 

[JDreamer]

How could an ejaculation, into which the entire hormonal activity in your body culminates, have only mental effects? When you hit the refractory period after ejaculation, is that 'largely mental'? Are you completely ignorant of hypothalamus, HPx axises and contrarian endocrinology? Do you believe the negative effects of weed are largely in your head too? Orgasm and weed achieve pretty much the same thing: flood of 2-AG in the hypothalamus, leading to desentitization of CB-1 receptors, which result in lessened hypothalamic sensitivity to both dopamine and testosterone. And when HPP axis is no longer inhibited by dopamine, prolactin will be chronically elevated, which in turn inhibits HPG axis and leads to chronically low test. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to physiological consequences of ejaculation.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions. For a very long time I was concerned I caused some collateral damage being depressed and fapping too much (sometimes compulsively) in my younger years thru my late teens. I feel as if it was a bi-product of a very stressful household I grew up in with parents who were at each others' throats all the time and born from a mother who was never NOT stressed.

How do I go about correcting the situation of which you speak?

 

[lampofred]

Cake. Alright I will start tomorrow the 11th, and report back on the 19th with all the data. I will check temps and pulse at noon on the dot for the 7 days and then on the 8th day an hour or two after.

So what happened?

 

[redsun]

So what happened?

Temps and pulse were taken at noon give or take a few minutes. On the 8th day temp was taken 1 1/2 hours post ejaculation at about 1:30 ish.

July 11th:
98.8 F
84 bpm

July 12th:
98.8 F
80 bpm

July 13th:
98.4 F
73 bpm

July 14th:
98.6 F
78 bpm

July 15th:
99.0F
87 bpm

July 16th:
98.7 F
74 bpm

July 17th:
98.7 F
76 bpm

July 18th:
98.5 F
70 bpm

July 19th(Post-ejaculation, 1 hour and 30 minutes later):
98.7 F
82 bpm


I did not expect anything out of this tbh, I knew already that there were no negative consequences on my health. I used to have post-ejaculation problems like tiredness, laziness, lack of motivation but this went away when I started eating better. I didnt expect much difference, and the data demonstrated this. Temps and pulses were well within normal ranges with minimalized variation as is always the case when I do measure temps and pulses. There were no significant deviations of temp or pulse on the 8th day.

 

[intotheether]

Hey dude. I've been into NoFap for five years. I once had a 120 day hardmode streak.

Without a healthy body and emotional system you'll keep getting dragged in. I've logged on NoFap for years, had a popular journal on the site, was connected into the community and followed their best practices.

A low energy brain and serotonin will always make you a dysfunctional person.

You need to regain metabolic energy, increase dopamine, lower serotonin, feel true love and connection and build a healthy neurology.

Do your best to avoid PMO but don't judge yourself if you relapse.

Just heal bro. Take your time, relax, regenerate, recover. Don't worry about girls for now. You will become highly attractive when you're healthy and girls will want to be your companion, lover and life partner.

 

[Pulstar]

A low energy brain and serotonin will always make you a dysfunctional person.

You need to regain metabolic energy, increase dopamine, lower serotonin, feel true love and connection and build a healthy neurology.

Do your best to avoid PMO but don't judge yourself if you relapse.

Great post man. I second what you say. Porn / sex / masturbation compulsions are often a symptom and a coping mechanism. If you are unhealthy, NOFAP won't magically cure everything. It will be helpful, no doubt, but again, if the root cause is not really addressed, NOFAP's benefits tend to disappear after a relapse, which inevitably comes, especially if you don't have partner AND your health is in poor condition. Totally agree about what you say with regards to serotonin. I would also add here too much endotoxin, cortisol, histamine and possibly estrogen and overall low energy condition.
IMO, the problem is that NOFAP community completely misses the physiological part, and focuses mostly on ideology and will power alone.

 

[ecstatichamster]

What tends to be underdone here on the forum is the value of a long term relationship.

I went from masturbating to porn every day to never masturbating again, and it was very very easy. The key was doing oxytocin building activities with my wife, including long bouts of non orgasmic intercourse.

There is and has not been the slightest desire to masturbate and it’s been many many years now.

If you have no partner, it is very difficult to not masturbate. You can do it, but you must use important mental techniques to never fantasize.

With a partner, it’s much much easier and in fact I think this is the best state for almost everyone anyway.

 

[Lolinaa]

I wrote to Ray Peat about masturbation and porn. He said that orgasm can help release stress hormones so its good for your health. I think you just need to be reasonable. Its like everything in life. Its better masturbating than feeling angry or frustrated.

 

[baccheion]

I wrote to Ray Peat about masturbation and porn. He said that orgasm can help release stress hormones so its good for your health. I think you just need to be reasonable. Its like everything in life. Its better masturbating than feeling angry or frustrated.

At 1-2 times, there was an increase in estrogen among males. On the other hand, testosterone and other hormones also went up. Androgenicity : estrogenicity effectively remained the same. At 4+ times, the assumed negative effects appeared. Maybe it doesn't apply, as it was a rodent study. Another showed an increase in pregnenolone and DHEA.

Ejaculation and Testosterone Levels: Masturbation Lowers T?

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1477-7827-5-11.pdf

Endocrine effects of masturbation in men. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[intotheether]

I would like to share something with you folks in this discussion, my own experience, which perhaps you may see links in with observations you have made.

Since adopting recommendations from Ray’s work, notably putting conscious effort into decreasing serotonin and increasing dopamine, reducing endotoxin and increasing sugar intake to get out of the stress state, my general outlook, my perceptions, and my behaviours are changing.

I feel far, far more connected to people. Far closer to my friends, family, and colleagues.

My heart is just brimming with love.

This is silly, but I’ll share. I started talking to a person from another country on Instagram recently, our conversations have been flirty, and I’ve actually developed a crush on this person I’ve never met LOL. She has said she currently has a crush on me, also. But why I bring this up is that it’s unusual for me, I’ve not had a crush on a girl since I was 17, so over 10 years ago now, that’s how sick I’ve been trapped in the low energy state, a high serotonin zombie basically.

I’ve been bonding with this person a lot, and this experience has been very healing for me, it’s taken away all desire for porn and I am experiencing a lot of spontaneous erections, with a very hard quality erection, just sporadically throughout the day. I was a total zombie before this guys.

I also had no ‘urges’ for masturbation in the sense I did when I was doing NoFap. However, I did masturbate last night, and it was a totally different experience to when I was using porn, though I have never been a heavy user of that (just looked at it once or twice a week, for a total of about 20 mins). The climax was so intense and left me on the floor. This hasn’t happened to me before.

I think from increasing cellular energy, a recovery of my brain is happening and love and connection is flooding my brain. Which is really, really healing for me as I am a chronically lonely man who hasn’t actually had a girlfriend yet (I’m 28) due to fixing my health problems. But now I feel so good. The way women look at me is changing and I like this a lot.

It will be very interesting for me to explore love for the first time. I am a generally smart person and have a high level of direction and focus, so will not be falling head over heels for the first girl that comes my way now I am able to experience these feelings. I want to wait, learn, explore, and understand.

LOVE TAKES HIGH LEVELS OF ENERGY

 

[Lolinaa]

@baccheion : I think we should indulge when we feel strong desire and don't have a partner. Before I used to repress it, almost feel ashamed. Now that I know its ok I will do it once in a while. Its better than having sex with men with whom you have not connected spiritually.

@intotheether: yes any relationships take energy: colleagues, friends and family. In order to remain kind and a good human being its better than being stress or tired.

Lucky you, I haven't been able to connect with any men who have tried to go out with me those last months. They were trying to be close and intimate too soon.

I am sometimes attracted to my Manager but I think its because he is a kind person, nice to me... I had difficulty with some women he stand up for me, and of course because he is the boss. He is manly, courtuous and I love the way he looks at me but he is too old and married.

Another guy with whom I completely forgot the world around us was at an exhibition at a museum. He was so knowledgeable, brilliant, humble, like a breath of fresh air, but once again quite old. I don't find guys of my age or younger very masculine or exciting. They don't have any game.

I don't expect anything out of those 2 crush though. So I won't be intimate with anybody anytime soon.

 

[Cirion]

What tends to be underdone here on the forum is the value of a long term relationship.

I went from masturbating to porn every day to never masturbating again, and it was very very easy. The key was doing oxytocin building activities with my wife, including long bouts of non orgasmic intercourse.

There is and has not been the slightest desire to masturbate and it’s been many many years now.

If you have no partner, it is very difficult to not masturbate. You can do it, but you must use important mental techniques to never fantasize.

With a partner, it’s much much easier and in fact I think this is the best state for almost everyone anyway.

I don't really disagree with that, but keep in mind

-- Most hypothyroid men have little to no energy to be social or date, and even if they try, will fail spectacularly (I am absolutely horrible with women when hypothyroid)
-- Truly high quality women are extremely rare, and when you're hypothyroid, you tend to be too eager to settle for someone less than exceptional so your ability to screen out lower quality women is poor

Lucky you, I haven't been able to connect with any men who have tried to go out with me those last months. They were trying to be close and intimate too soon.

I am sometimes attracted to my Manager but I think its because he is a kind person, nice to me... I had difficulty with some women he stand up for me, and of course because he is the boss. He is manly, courtuous and I love the way he looks at me but he is too old and married.

Another guy with whom I completely forgot the world around us was at an exhibition at a museum. He was so knowledgeable, brilliant, humble, like a breath of fresh air, but once again quite old. I don't find guys of my age or younger very masculine or exciting. They don't have any game.

I don't expect anything out of those 2 crush though. So I won't be intimate with anybody anytime soon.

Just curious, how old are you (if you don't want to answer, that's fine)? Men in their 20s are usually underdeveloped. I know I was. In fact I'm now 32 and still finding out more things about what I want in life, but I think by 40 I will probably be fairly established finally, as I fix my health and achieve some other goals in life I have also.

I think a lot of the reason men want to be intimate quickly is due to the hookup culture that exists nowadays. Some men may be perfectly willing to wait, but because the pressure in society says if you don't hookup early, the woman will ghost you, there is often pressure to hook up within the first 3 dates (if not the first date). I confess that this part of culture has even affected me. I'm perfectly willing to wait a little bit, but when I used to "go slow", I never got past the first date, lol. Most women, if you don't make a move early, will think you're either not interested, or have no courage. It wasn't until I started physical escalation early (first date) that I started getting second, third dates, or more. For whatever that's worth.

I think like I say, men (or at least this guy here), don't really find themselves until 30-40+. I think life experience plus building money and power through career and investments and social connections does a lot to grow a man in confidence.

But yeah, due to all the stressors in life now environmentally and through food and social expectations, a lot of men nowadays are basically castrated. I've experienced this most of my 20s. It's taken a conscious effort to improve my health to get out of this hole of unhealth. From personal experience "Game" is something you only get when you're metabolically healthy. Virtually all people (men and women both) nowadays are at least somewhat metabolically sick. So, it's really not surprising that men you come across have no game. When I was in my 20s I was very metabolically sick from all the stress of college, processed foods, staying up too late, not giving a single crap about my health.

 

[Lolinaa]

I don't really disagree with that, but keep in mind

-- Most hypothyroid men have little to no energy to be social or date, and even if they try, will fail spectacularly (I am absolutely horrible with women when hypothyroid)
-- Truly high quality women are extremely rare, and when you're hypothyroid, you tend to be too eager to settle for someone less than exceptional so your ability to screen out lower quality women is poor



Just curious, how old are you (if you don't want to answer, that's fine)? Men in their 20s are usually underdeveloped. I know I was. In fact I'm now 32 and still finding out more things about what I want in life, but I think by 40 I will probably be fairly established finally, as I fix my health and achieve some other goals in life I have also.

I think a lot of the reason men want to be intimate quickly is due to the hookup culture that exists nowadays. Some men may be perfectly willing to wait, but because the pressure in society says if you don't hookup early, the woman will ghost you, there is often pressure to hook up within the first 3 dates (if not the first date). I confess that this part of culture has even affected me. I'm perfectly willing to wait a little bit, but when I used to "go slow", I never got past the first date, lol. Most women, if you don't make a move early, will think you're either not interested, or have no courage. It wasn't until I started physical escalation early (first date) that I started getting second, third dates, or more. For whatever that's worth.

I think like I say, men (or at least this guy here), don't really find themselves until 30-40+. I think life experience plus building money and power through career and investments and social connections does a lot to grow a man in confidence.

But yeah, due to all the stressors in life now environmentally and through food and social expectations, a lot of men nowadays are basically castrated. I've experienced this most of my 20s. It's taken a conscious effort to improve my health to get out of this hole of unhealth. From personal experience "Game" is something you only get when you're metabolically healthy. Virtually all people (men and women both) nowadays are at least somewhat metabolically sick. So, it's really not surprising that men you come across have no game. When I was in my 20s I was very metabolically sick from all the stress of college, processed foods, staying up too late, not giving a single crap about my health.

I think even some men in their 30's as you said are still finding their way to know themselves and what they want out of life. That's the Society we are living now.

I think its harder and harder to have what we call a deep connection. A human being feeling the other human being. People are too preoccupied about what others and society is doing, it takes energy to be ourselves and different. They is no instinct feeling the emotions of the other person, They are just in their head and what they want. People forget that each time you have to deal with another human being you are creating a communion so there is communication with all it implicates: body language, words, the energy around this person before there is union, but no patience, no instinct and no passion bring no interest for those looking for something more solid and hook up culture for those in the same line of thinking.

 

[Aymen]

At 1-2 times, there was an increase in estrogen among males. On the other hand, testosterone and other hormones also went up. Androgenicity : estrogenicity effectively remained the same. At 4+ times, the assumed negative effects appeared. Maybe it doesn't apply, as it was a rodent study. Another showed an increase in pregnenolone and DHEA.

Ejaculation and Testosterone Levels: Masturbation Lowers T?

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1477-7827-5-11.pdf

Endocrine effects of masturbation in men. - PubMed - NCBI

i remember i saw the full study before but i forgot where, anyway, all the hormones were elevated post ejaculation (DHT, DHEA, Allopregnenolone, Testosterone, Estrogen, Cortisol), Allopregnenolone was the most elevated, that's what i remember and i forgot how long they remained elevated too.

 

[Ilovethemgoobas]

I would like to share something with you folks in this discussion, my own experience, which perhaps you may see links in with observations you have made.
Since adopting recommendations from Ray’s work, notably putting conscious effort into decreasing serotonin and increasing dopamine, reducing endotoxin and increasing sugar intake to get out of the stress state, my general outlook, my perceptions, and my behaviours are changing.
I feel far, far more connected to people. Far closer to my friends, family, and colleagues.
My heart is just brimming with love.
This is silly, but I’ll share. I started talking to a person from another country on Instagram recently, our conversations have been flirty, and I’ve actually developed a crush on this person I’ve never met LOL. She has said she currently has a crush on me, also. But why I bring this up is that it’s unusual for me, I’ve not had a crush on a girl since I was 17, so over 10 years ago now, that’s how sick I’ve been trapped in the low energy state, a high serotonin zombie basically.
I’ve been bonding with this person a lot, and this experience has been very healing for me, it’s taken away all desire for porn and I am experiencing a lot of spontaneous erections, with a very hard quality erection, just sporadically throughout the day. I was a total zombie before this guys.
I also had no ‘urges’ for masturbation in the sense I did when I was doing NoFap. However, I did masturbate last night, and it was a totally different experience to when I was using porn, though I have never been a heavy user of that (just looked at it once or twice a week, for a total of about 20 mins). The climax was so intense and left me on the floor. This hasn’t happened to me before.
I think from increasing cellular energy, a recovery of my brain is happening and love and connection is flooding my brain. Which is really, really healing for me as I am a chronically lonely man who hasn’t actually had a girlfriend yet (I’m 28) due to fixing my health problems. But now I feel so good. The way women look at me is changing and I like this a lot.
It will be very interesting for me to explore love for the first time. I am a generally smart person and have a high level of direction and focus, so will not be falling head over heels for the first girl that comes my way now I am able to experience these feelings. I want to wait, learn, explore, and understand.
LOVE TAKES HIGH LEVELS OF ENERGY