Young Men And Clashing With Mature Women

[burtlancast]

I think it all stems from a false conception that both genders have to be equal, when in reality it's the absolute contrary (they're complementary).

4 generations ago, only the husband needed to work while the wife was taking care of the home and kids.

Today, economics dictates this isn't possible anymore. And women are forced to fend for themselves and compete for survival when their best talents are not competition but creating life and joy.

Why are women forced to fight while serving into the police or army? Islamic states would find this situation shameful for the male gender, and i tend to agree with them on this point.

 

[LUH 3417]

well to correct you there a bit but mature women would not be high in estrogen they would have lower estrogen with a slight high testosterone women become more manly as they age just look at their jaw line. this can make older women into cranky B's

the women you are talking about show signs of borderline/narcissist personality which seems to be getting more and more common these days with women. I read the other day that autism is comparable to being the extreme male brain but BORDERLINE PERSONALTY is said to be the extreme FEMALE BRAIN.

you acting aggressively is a sign of LOW T. because you are acting emotionally. high T would make you act somewhat stoic and unemotional or unbothered. women will SH&T test you to see what type of male you are. which is what is happening to you. i see a lot of young men acting very emotional these days becasue of low T. even if they have big muscles it doesn't mean they are dominant. THINK OF FAST N THE FURIOUS DOM played by Vin Diesel is the dominant alpha he is very stoic and calm and hardly ever shows much emotion this is what a high T guy would be like. infact DOM'S name could be short of DOMINANT...(i know its domonic)

All of the unpleasant consequences of estrogen excess happen to resemble some of the events of aging.

If aging involves the same processes that are created by estrogen, then our knowledge of how to protect ourselves against estrogen can be used to

 

[LUH 3417]

As far as I'm aware when women are under stress they can produce testosterone in the ovarys. I'm not sure if it's realistic to think mature people in general would have low estrogen.

When I think of vin diesel in fast and the furious I think he is highly emotional, angry, yelling, acting irrationally, not making well thought out and informed decisions but rather on emotion.

I'll think about the low T.

I understand ***t tests, I'm talking about real life changing stuff like making a company collapse or being outcast from family or something like that.

women’s T is highest during ovulation, and would explain why her sex drive is highest at this time, however I don’t know how this translates to non-ovulating females

 

[LUH 3417]

I think the problem in the work place is that men created it for men and women are adapting to the environment which is not working very well for anyone and need to make a work environment adapted to them as women, I'm opening Pandora's box though.

I agree completely. I also don’t think there are any “female professions” or when there are, there exists a problem of role identification and compensation. Doulas are becoming more and more popular, however it was traditionally an unpaid role, as was midwifery, which developed out of the old wise woman who had already given birth herself and was at an age of maturity. I think these roles were collectively appointed, in that others recognized ones ability to serve, rather than an individual choice and pursuit.

At one time nursing or other care oriented professions could be considered feminine roles, but those have become dominated by technical tasks where you’re basically a skilled medication dispenser and charter. Also it was usually young women or nuns who worked as nurses. I think it’s very disorienting to be married and a mother and go out in the world and provide care for others in return for monetary compensation. I would imagine that’s why most nurses “just do their job” and keep their reserves of empathy for their husbands and children (hopefully).

 

[Blossom]

At one time nursing or other care oriented professions could be considered feminine roles, but those have become dominated by technical tasks where you’re basically a skilled medication dispenser and charter. Also it was usually young women or nuns who worked as nurses. I think it’s very disorienting to be married and a mother and go out in the world and provide care for others in return for monetary compensation. I would imagine that’s why most nurses “just do their job” and keep their reserves of empathy for their husbands and children (hopefully).

Completely agree. I was just thinking about this today.

 

[LUH 3417]

Completely agree. I was just thinking about this today.

the older i get the more grateful I am that my father was "patriarchal" and asked my mother to stay at home once she got pregnant. my only wish is that the outside world would have re-affirmed this as the best option, too.

 

[Lolinaa]

Hello,

I've come across information on the forum about when young androgenic men clash with mature women with elevated estrogen and or on SSRI drugs and I experience this in my personal life and I think it would help if we could discuss this issue and seek some clarity as to what is going on in order for people to foresee and prevent altercations in communication in family and in work environments.

My personal experience is that these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control, manipulative, patronising, condescending, passive aggressiveness, stubbornness, lack of empathy and compassion, inability to admit fault, inability to apologise, inability to express gratitude.

If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction as if I am under great threat and has occurred even if I am using progesterone and taking aspirin. I tend to get 'gas lighted' for my behaviour. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women.

I think it would be beneficial if we can speak about what is happening on a biological level and how to communicate with these kinds of women for the peace and harmony of humanity. I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit and these women getting used to less androgenic men in society.

Perhaps people with greater knowledge and or experience could chime in.

Hi, trust me its not only with young men. It's a feminin trait where I live, and its unbearable. I have had to change job multiple times because of agressive women.

 

[Ulysses]

the older i get the more grateful I am that my father was "patriarchal" and asked my mother to stay at home once she got pregnant. my only wish is that the outside world would have re-affirmed this as the best option, too.

I was raised in a two-income household, and have had to spend my entire life watching my mother grow increasingly unhappy with her job. It seems like her satisfaction with life is inversely correlated with her level of professional success. My father doesn't have the same problem. I don't think this is because the world treats my father better; I think it's because my mother doesn't want to work, and never really did. I certainly wish she hadn't, because my sister and I both could have had a much better time growing up with a fully involved parent, but as things were, neither of them had the energy to deal with us when they got home from work. Having since joined the workforce myself, I don't blame them for that, either.

So yeah, I wish the "outside world" would have affirmed the option for my mother to not work. As things stood, it would never have occurred to her as a viable option, no matter how much money my father made.

And then there's the thing where my mother needs everything in the house to be just-so, even though nobody else in the family really cares. So she makes another full-time job for herself by keeping the home immaculate, in addition to doing her actual job, and any attempt from the rest of us to help her with that, or dissuade her from it, is met with steadfast refusal, even if my sister is the one offering. Given the stress she creates for herself, I'm surprised she's aged well.

 

[LUH 3417]

I was raised in a two-income household, and have had to spend my entire life watching my mother grow increasingly unhappy with her job. It seems like her satisfaction with life is inversely correlated with her level of professional success. My father doesn't have the same problem. I don't think this is because the world treats my father better; I think it's because my mother doesn't want to work, and never really did. I certainly wish she hadn't, because my sister and I both could have had a much better time growing up with a fully involved parent, but as things were, neither of them had the energy to deal with us when they got home from work. Having since joined the workforce myself, I don't blame them for that, either.

So yeah, I wish the "outside world" would have affirmed the option for my mother to not work. As things stood, it would never have occurred to her as a viable option, no matter how much money my father made.

And then there's the thing where my mother needs everything in the house to be just-so, even though nobody else in the family really cares. So she makes another full-time job for herself by keeping the home immaculate, in addition to doing her actual job, and any attempt from the rest of us to help her with that, or dissuade her from it, is met with steadfast refusal, even if my sister is the one offering. Given the stress she creates for herself, I'm surprised she's aged well.

My mother does something similar with keeping everything immaculately clean. I always suspected it was her way of showing my father she was working hard in order to not feel so guilty about not being a money earner as all her sisters worked. I think it’s innate for women to make things beautiful but this gets distorted for some reason. I also find that most cleaning products make me feel crazy and agitated so it could be all the chemicals messing with hormones.

I think indigenous cultures may have had this figured out better than the modern world. Maybe dirt floors are the answer...

 

[Ulysses]

My mother does something similar with keeping everything immaculately clean. I always suspected it was her way of showing my father she was working hard in order to not feel so guilty about not being a money earner as all her sisters worked. I think it’s innate for women to make things beautiful but this gets distorted for some reason. I also find that most cleaning products make me feel crazy and agitated so it could be all the chemicals messing with hormones.

I think indigenous cultures may have had this figured out better than the modern world. Maybe dirt floors are the answer...

I agree. It's really heart-breaking that my mother wasn't able to consider this impulse legitimate enough for it to be her top priority.

 

[LUH 3417]

I agree. It's really heart-breaking that my mother wasn't able to consider this impulse legitimate enough for it to be her top priority.

Yes definitely, my mother expressed lots of guilt and aggression because she felt she wasn’t valued inside or outside the home as a stay at home wife and mom. I think the destruction of natural impulses is cultural and something we all have to protect ourselves against.

 

[Kunder]

Came here because of “mature women” in the title

 

[Lilac]

I found Ray Peat through the poster ChocoTaco on Mark's Sisson's Primal Blueprint boards. He was a smart 20-something, and I, a fiftyish woman, got a lot out of his posts. But there were some older women on those boards who just tore into him telling him he shouldn't/couldn't tell menopausal women how to get fit or lose weight. No "mansplaining, or "youngmansplaining"! (Before the term had currency.) The sex difference might explain some of this. But maybe it was also the tendency for people to be obnoxious and argumentative on the anonymous web. Whatever the reasons, I doubt those miffed women bothered to check out Ray Peat. So I would say they lost out big time.

As for bosses, I've had good male bosses and good females bosses. I judge these things on a case-by-case basis. However, one pretty good female boss I had did not put in the hours that she should have for such a high position, and our business suffered, in my opinion. She was on the mommy track and probably did no more than 35 hours a week of real work. A male boss I had who held a similar position was the first one in the office in the morning and the last one to leave at night. He had no kids, and the job was his life. He was quite effective.

 

[theLaw]

Perhaps just judging by character and integrity would be wise......

 

[danishispsychic]

Hmm. Here is my take on it- I think that hormone imbalance is rampant in both men and women. I know younger guys who seem like they already have low T and are v estrogenic. I know older women who are super chill and not aggressive and bossy. I know some middle aged men who are super agro and super insecure about aging and their masculinity and are possibly covering up their balding, low T, beer belly, viagra needing situation. I know super young women that think that their snowflake world and a world of bossy empowerment. Given that most people consume poisoned food and drink- have imbalance all over the place, are poisoned by everything - packaging , the air, flame retardants, parasites, gmo crap, pharma drugs, heavy metals.... and are having to deal with Big Med and Big Pharma and are not taking ownership of their actual health ( antidepressants for example ) - it is amazing that anyone acts sane at all. And as for " dealing with women who are aggressive and crazy " ..... well, I say this . ( and this goes for both genders ) You have total control of who you keep company with on a daily basis. Work or otherwise. :) I think that after 35 or so , getting real about hormone balance is really important in order not to have freaky weird behavior either way. Personally, I am scared of most men. Always have been.

 

[schultz]

well to correct you there a bit but mature women would not be high in estrogen they would have lower estrogen

I think @BenjaminBullock meant that older women are under a great influence from estrogen even though they technically have lower overall estrogen, this effect being due to a significantly lower progesterone level. Since progesterone isn't there to mitigate the action of estrogen then estrogen goes unopposed. This is what I tend to think people are talking about when they say older women have higher estrogen (sort of short hand for higher estrogen to progesterone ratio). Also tissue estrogen may be higher in older women since progesterone is what knocks it out of the tissue into the blood. Since progesterone is low, the estrogen stays active in the tissue yet shows up low in the bloodstream.

This is how I understand it so far from reading Ray's stuff, though my understanding of things keeps evolving as I learn more.

 

[Waynish]

It's basically just anyone mentally ill gunning for power... It's harder to take control of alpha males so they'll have to express more power in order to do so. I think you're just talking about a specific area of mental illness of single, over-worked, older women most of whom have been prescribed birth control for years due to their symptoms that doctors often mistreat as "not enough estrogen."

 

[Teres]

There's a reason for everything. The context is crucial and the If's are so many.

"...these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control..." - Are they in a position of authority? If yes, then they can afford it. Do they have any idea how to sit properly on that chair? That's another question. If not, and we accept that communication with a woman in question is worth enough to not be considered a disastrous waste of time and complete lack of self-respect bordering with self-denial, then the reason is, quite often, rooted in the object of her/their attitude.

"If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction.. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women." - You seem to be reactive. Аll men who react this way are. This makes a man the perfect bite even an angel will find it difficult to resist to. Such reactivity is the sweetest food for the described by you behavior and attitude. Among the key factors in women's appraisal of a male individual's social worth is a ruler that measures his sexual value, even if intimate relations never take place. Character, mana, assertiveness, intellect, emotional intelligence and stability, power, willpower, physical attractivness, an ability to physically intimidate other males and dominate women. The more surpassed a woman feels in relation to and by a man, the higher her evaluation of his worth is. More experienced and socially erudite women have higher criterias for evaluation of a man's social and sexual value and more severe measures for evaluation. If they do sense in you something they perceive as a weakness, and usually the digging is done mercilessly, just the pace and the approach depends on how much you can handle at once, the outcome is always the same. They are a nightmare for every soft hearted male. If by mature women you don't mean your average pissed off aunty, of course.

"I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit..." - Such men do not exist. Never did. In order to be dominant, the need to impose your will has to be felt. It's a thing that rarely can be controlled. There is the desire to influence the circumstances and the strive for direct control over the outcome. Not wanting to submit is activelly putting resistance. Two different vibes and frequencies of a character that push an interraction or/and relations between two individuals in different directions.

In case the object of the kind of attitude in question has no weaknesses that can be sensed and taken advantage of, people, including women, who have no realistic vision about the social climate and world surrounding them...are not uncommon. Usually there are inbalances involved, the brain being the most vulnerable. Slight variations and ratios in one's brain chemistry and drastic behavioral changes can take place. And that's quite easy.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I've had a few older women use power in petty and sadistic ways, and I've had the ***t kicked out of me by young guys. I think I prefer the pathology of the older women.

 

[fradon]

All of the unpleasant consequences of estrogen excess happen to resemble some of the events of aging.

If aging involves the same processes that are created by estrogen, then our knowledge of how to protect ourselves against estrogen can be used to

the liver is our main estrogen detox. keep the liver healthy and stress free. been doing one meal a day for a while just to give the liver a break and testosterone does go up.