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Facial Width-to-Height (fWHR) Ratio

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by RedStaR, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. RedStaR

    RedStaR Member

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    This is partially an extension of a thread in the Vitamin K sub forum. I decided to make a separate discussion for it.

    Wider Face After Using Vitamin K?

    So let's begin.

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  2. DHT

    DHT Member

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    interessting but what if your face or skull is very large and width are you then selected to rule over the others hahaha
     
  3. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    Looksim and sluthate are filled with these fWHR threads. It makes men more attractive, although I don't think you can change it as an adult. I guess it's worth a try, but I'll have to see pics before I believe it. It's yet another confirmation that health (particularly in your developmental years, over which you unfortunately have no control) influences literally everything in your life, from sex to wealth to happiness.
     
  4. DHT

    DHT Member

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    why it shouldnt be possible if you re an adult to change ofc it is possible. It seems you didnt read the article or didnt understand . They said its due testosterone . So just take testosterone and you will achieve it. But you need really high doses i think
     
  5. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    Because you have stopped growing and your bone structure is formed by that time. Testosterone is beneficial for facial growth, but only while your face is still growing.
     
  6. DHT

    DHT Member

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    maybe you right but in ppl who have acromegaly their acren still grow i think its the same with testosterone not testosterone will increase bone growth its due the DHT
     
  7. OP
    RedStaR

    RedStaR Member

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    I should have published the whole study from the first.

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  8. theLaw

    theLaw Member

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  9. amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    I don't think it makes men more attractive personally. I also think people's faces tend to widen as you age anyway. Look at Leonardo DiCaprio. His face has widened a lot, and it makes him less attractive than his youth/thinner face imo. Maybe it's just weight gain though, i don't know
     
  10. AretnaP

    AretnaP Member

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    The only real reason why testosterone would influence the width of the face (other than some amount of cheek bone growth) is because people with weak tongue muscles might not hold their tongue in the right place in their mouths. When you don't hold your tongue in the roof of your mouth your maxilla can falls backwards and down, giving you a long ugly face. It can also cause narrowing of the palate, in fact the intermolar width was known to be much wider in earlier humans who had tougher foods to chew.

    The intermolar width was not only wider in earlier civilization but very consistent across regions and ethnic groups.
     
  11. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    I have to disagree. If you look at many species high testosterone is associated with a wide, shorter face. The Pitbull is an example of this.
     
  12. AretnaP

    AretnaP Member

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    look up mike mew, he's the peat of orthodontics
     
  13. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    Tongue posture is definitely necessary, but I think testosterone provides it's benefits directly via the bone. Not tongue posture -> bone.
     
  14. pimpnamedraypeat

    pimpnamedraypeat Member

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    No. Humans are social creatures with complex social hierarchies and like most social crwatures, humans have developed ways to instantly determine rank. Fwhr is one way of determining a persons inherent rank.

    Height, looks, and skin color are others.
     
  15. OP
    RedStaR

    RedStaR Member

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    The studies show a clear relationship between T and fWHR. I'm sure the relationship would be even stronger if we control for oral posture. Testosterone determines bone growth, variables such as oral posture and nose breathing controls direction of growth.
     
  16. Thoushant

    Thoushant Member

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    Intersting thread, thanks for the studies.

    You guys familiar with craniosacral biodynamics? Skull bone sutures rarely fuse, but some cases it fuses in 40-50s(I think because stress & calcification) The belief is skullbones move in rhythm with breathing. You can find videos on how the movement goes, especially in inhale(in inhale, sacrum rotates back and down causes Flexion of the sphenobasillar joint) follwing happens:

    Occipital will push against sphnoid bone, the joint between will move upwards(flexion) and the sphenoid bone will rotate down towards the maxilla.
    In inhalation you skull basicly takes a horizontal width, in exhale vertical height.
    Inhale is basicly relative high fwhr: flared zygomatics, glabella is deepend relative to frontal sinuses, eyes stick out with light reflection(more hopeful). I think also a faint confident mouth corners turned upside is a result of pulling origins of mouth muscles away, and the muscle tightens due to stretch receptors.
    You've seen the tired dead eyes, either it's muscles are tired to open eyelids, or the eyeball as a whole is moved back..

    It's the concept of tensegrity. I've tried laying down and breathing slowly, to make sure sacrum is moving, and feeling this movement along the spine up to the occipital. With minimal muscle use, you can "lift" the occiptal and sphenoid joint relative to the zygomatic arches, you will feel tension from your ears to you zygos flaring, and you can concentrate on getting the tension to spread to under the eye(lifting the maxilla in tension), to the sides and above to get the frontal sinuses expanding with every breath in.

    After som days you get way better it at, and you find distinct areas along your diaphragm, you haven't used for a while. Whats interesting is I can feel a difference in blood flow in the face, and I can feel a difference in confidence levels and how people react around me.
    It wasn't easy to keep the tension in social situations, you have to fight it a bit, and you immediately become more aware of any urge to "submit" or lower your head in any way..
    You can find some google books on meditation using craniosacral biodynamics, "breath of life" rings a bell.

    Try it out!
     
  17. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    About the tongue to the roof of the mouth thing, I actually heard of people deliberately depriving themselves of vitamin K2 to make their bones "softer" so they could restructure it with correct oral posture.
     
  18. Prosper

    Prosper Member

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    That seems misguided, because like @Thoushant said, most of the changes in shape & size of skull happen through constant bone resorption and osteogenesis through the sutures of the skull. The suture seeks to maintain the skull in a state of homeostasis in terms of tension. If the connected bones are pulled and kept further apart than the default "resting width" of the suture (which is around 0,2 mm if I remember correctly), new bone will eventually be formed to close in the gap. Likewise, if a suture is chronically pushed narrower (for example, the effect of gravity during mouthbreathing), bone resorption will happen until the tension is resolved and the suture can return to its default width.

    There's probably some ideal structure where all the bones of the skull rest harmoniously against each other and further skull expansion simply does not happen, because the anatomy of the musculature has reached its most optimal function & range of motion. For example, correct use of the tongue, hips and the spine generates a push INTO the skull, and can so be used to expand the skull from the inside out over time. The bone will follow the musculature, but there will come a point where the postural musculature has reached optimal function and any further attempt to expand the tongue into the skull would begin to compromise anatomical function of body posture. Realistically speaking, I don't think many people are in this situation.

    Skull structure can also change for better and worse due to a short burst of intense force, like a traffic accident or endo-nasal balloon inflation (NCR, ABC etc).
     
  19. AretnaP

    AretnaP Member

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    the average intermolar width of humans has decreased (narrowing of the face)
    the average intermolar width of people in more developed countries averages around 29-34 milimeters
    people of all ethnicities had intermolar widths in the low 50s thousands of years ago

    improper tongue posture has had an astoundingly significant impact on facial width
    watch this video, the whole thing
     
  20. encerent

    encerent Member

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    Is there an easy way to measure intermolar width? I guess I could ask my dentist/hygienist next time i'm in there
     
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