Why Is There So Much Soluble Fibre In Human Breast Milk?

[dd99]

Every breath you take, every move you make..

..and then I realize that Sting sounds like a creep in those songs. Imagine what's like for a girl to hear that!

Haha, yeah. My wife calls Every Breath You Take 'that stalker song'.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac
Amazing stuff. One of the things that first alerted me to the beneficial effects of fermentable fiber consumption (except of course if your gut microbiota are dysbiotic) was when I learned that the T regs the video talks about correlate almost directly to the amount of fermentable fiber in the diet.
It was interesting also that the video was sponsored by a big Pharma star, Janssen. I'm sure they'd just love to persuade people they need a pill when you can achieve the same effect with food.
But breathtaking graphics nevertheless.
I'd like to see any studies of the infammatory effect of pectin too. It does seem strange that a ubiquitous component of fruit would be inflammatory.
Pboy is a bit of a muse to you isn't he?

I haven't seen any part where they seem to be suggesting that drug intervention is required.

I suspect that the oligosaccharides in milk are there to protect mainly the SI, and the LI just as a consequence. One of these days I was reading a review article about this subject where they pointed out that we have microbes in every part that comes in contact with the exterior. When we write that the SI is sterile, that is just relatively compared to the LI. But we have a lot of microbes in there too. What's interesting is that the phyla that predominates there are different than in the colon. I suspect that our immune system helps to shape it that way + mother's milk + gastric acids that gradually diminish their action. So it makes pboyisourlord sense to stimulate the growth of microbes that don't interfere that much with your absorption of nutrients, and encourage them to take place to avoid pathogens doing it so.

The numbers of bacteria are:
10^1-10^3 stomach/duodenum (Bacilli belonging to Firmicutes and Actinobacteria: gram+ / they have great tolerance to acids too)

up to

10^11-10^12 colon (Lachnospiraceae belonging to Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes: gram-)
Per gram of content.

You'll only understand when your symptoms of hypopboydism clear up. Otherwise it looks like I'm just worshipping a human.

 

[Amazoniac]

Forgot to mention that our organism controls the transit time according to what's in there.
If you have foreign compounds that it cannot identify or senses that are dangerous, it's going to expel as fast as it can. Maybe with some types of fiber you can induce that same process to a lesser degree.
On the other hand, if you are severely deficient in some nutrient, it's going to slow down the transit time to extract the most of it.
I honestly pboyisluminescent don't know how the process works, but it does. Maybe the metabolites of the microbes play a role in that..

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

It doesn't take a genius to see the difference in stool quality after eating fermented foods and more fiber so long as you're not a specific case where you're allergic to those foods or are too constipated to deal with more fiber without working up to it.

I've read most of Peat's books, and while his brain book is quite good - he really misses a lot of important generalities about the gut and the gut-brain connection (including blood-brain barrier permeability, brain autoimmune problems, allergies starting in the gut, etc).

 

[Stuart]

It doesn't take a genius to see the difference in stool quality after eating fermented foods and more fiber so long as you're not a specific case where you're allergic to those foods or are too constipated to deal with more fiber without working up to it.

I've read most of Peat's books, and while his brain book is quite good - he really misses a lot of important generalities about the gut and the gut-brain connection (including blood-brain barrier permeability, brain autoimmune problems, allergies starting in the gut, etc).

I think improved stool quality, though certainly worthwhile, is the least spectacular of the benefits of having feeding the microbiota the food it prefers. The allergy/food intolerance/ autoimmune disease effects are the real standouts. So many people who have suffered from lifelong gluten , lactose, or specific food intolerances find lasting, drug free relief by just resurrecting their microbiome. And don't forget that such problems can often compound across generations. Several generations of neglected colon microbiota (you get your mum's perhaps crappy microbiome in the birth canal after all) can deal you a really shoddy hand. Which makes the work you have to do to get your microbiome back on track in your own lifetime even harder.

In my own case lifelong candida/thrush issues I inherited from my Mother and which cheerfully showed the finger to every anti candida protocol I've ever tried (not to mention making adherence to the dietary approaches very difficult because yeasts don't like being starved, and will fight back). But just eating a lot more fermentable fiber just seemed to change the terrain utterly. Curiously brain fog and sleep problems that I wasn't even aware I suffered from, because I'd never known any different, also resolved in profound ways that still leave me almost a little angry that so many decades had been spent at the mercy of a dysbiotic gut. It did take over a year for my toenails to become like toenails should be. The lifelong athletes foot/dandruff completely disappeared in a little over 7 months. I think a dandruff sufferer uses up a tremendous amount of energy just replenishing the flakes. Not to mention the hard earned you spend on latest potion or drug/supplement some diet guru recommends to 'target' the problem.

I do think many followers of Dr. Peat, and perhaps even he, think that what happens in your colon is less important than what happens in the upper digestive tract. Surely they are equally important. Your colon isn't a physiological afterthought. It's a huge, breathtakingly powerful determinant of whether you thrive or struggle with health issues. Just as the rest of your body is. And in your colon, it's all about the bacteria, because it is ALL bacteria.

@Amazoniac
From your last comment I got the impression that if you wan't the good bacteria in your colon to thrive at the expense of the pathogenic ones, don't you think it's a good idea to provide them plenty of their preferred food -fermentable fiber. Breast milk ensures that babies do it automatically. ALL babies. And if you eat whole fruit/animals, adults do too. All adults. None of the new environmental challenges humans face make a thriving microbiome any less important. In fact, I would have thought it's as important as it ever was.

 

[EnoreeG]

@Amazoniac
Amazing stuff. One of the things that first alerted me to the beneficial effects of fermentable fiber consumption (except of course if your gut microbiota are dysbiotic) was when I learned that the T regs the video talks about correlate almost directly to the amount of fermentable fiber in the diet.
It was interesting also that the video was sponsored by a big Pharma star, Janssen. I'm sure they'd just love to persuade people they need a pill when you can achieve the same effect with food.
But breathtaking graphics nevertheless.
I'd like to see any studies of the infammatory effect of pectin too. It does seem strange that a ubiquitous component of fruit would be inflammatory.
Pboy is a bit of a muse to you isn't he?

Yes, I agree Stuart, amazing graphics here, and the other things you said as well.

I found the narration a bit optimistic though and channeling some mind control. Yes, they have to simplify and show one isolated case of one Peyer's Patch successfully spoiling an invasion, but what they didn't mention is that, over time, when this happens to one location, it will happen to most, or all locations along the gut. You then have inflammation all throughout the gut, and the internal immune components are likely not able to withstand this onslaught but soldier on, trying to patch things as the leaky gut just continues, and even worsens, while the toxic substances, including metals, undigested proteins, and bacteria start invading more than just the lymph system. Next comes systemic inflammation, degenerative disease, and auto-immune conditions.

We all know now that these toxins are in the gut, and that we need to keep the mucosa intact to prevent invasion. Prevention is preferable to repair (what they animated), though as you say Stuart, this wasn't mentioned in the video and they never mentioned that prevention all relates to fiber. People with insufficient fiber (often only 2-3 bowel movements per week) are playing with this threat. Fiber keeps things moving so toxins stay more diluted, and additionally fiber provides direct nourishment (such as short-chain fatty acids) to the villi and other gut wall components. The endothelium is the critical part of this equation. If it isn't violated, you don't even need all those components described in this video. They are there to handle exceptional cases, not the every-day, never-stops case. You can't feed the endothelium efficiently without the fiber feeding the microbes which make the butyrate that nourishes the endothelium. Without the butyrate, just by itself, you have a weakened human system in it's most critical component -- the gut wall. The more butyrate, the better the nourishment. The more microbes, the more butyrate. Thus, the more fiber, the better the barrier. So you at least need sufficient fiber. How much fiber? Take your chances on minimizing it if you wish, y'all. Myself, I'll just try to err on the safe side.

The distortion of the video was that it showed and explained the inflammation problem beginning with "chemical, mechanical, or pathogenic triggered barrier disruptors", coupled with genetic susceptibilities. Ha! People live entire lives without the bowel problems, just as they live entire lives without dental problems as described by Weston Price, just as whole areas of the globe live without cardiovascular problems. The video slyly implies that "attacks will come, regardless" and you may be vulnerable, regardless, if you have "genetic susceptibilities". It's out of your hands. Be ready, An attack can come at any time.

It's a mind game of "you don't have the power to prevent it". Don't fall for it. You DO have the power. You are what you eat. Focus on that. Epigenetics is an override on genetics. You can change the way you are programmed to work, minute by minute, as you believe and as you eat and live. That's what I think is important.

 

[EnoreeG]

It doesn't take a genius to see the difference in stool quality after eating fermented foods and more fiber so long as you're not a specific case where you're allergic to those foods or are too constipated to deal with more fiber without working up to it.

I've read most of Peat's books, and while his brain book is quite good - he really misses a lot of important generalities about the gut and the gut-brain connection (including blood-brain barrier permeability, brain autoimmune problems, allergies starting in the gut, etc).

Wow, a post to which I've nothing more to add!! A treasured moment (to the troops as well as to me, I'm sure)!!

 

[Stuart]

@Enorgee
You are incredibly well informed about the mechanisms involved. Hat tip indeed. I learn something new every time you people post. I really do. Also, this forum is incredibly well designed. Writing a comment is so painless.
All the right bells and whistles. It's very rare.

Well I agree. Gut health is all about the butyrate. I've just never seen any convincing evidence that your colon bacteria can produce too much butyrate.

But as Amazoniac said, If you have a dysbiotic gut, particularly SIBO , it isn't just a matter of packing in the fermentable fiber. So doing can often exacerbate SIBO.

Resurrecting a dysbiotic gut is definitely 'nuanced'. But I do get the distinct impression that Dr. Peat doesn't think having a powering microbiome is even that important. Just keep the S.I. as sterile as possible, and your colon will look after itself. I think that's a grave mistake.

But this forum is dedicated to Dr. Peat and his dietary principles. I respect that. I really do. All I can expect is some interesting debate. I'm really not expecting to change anyone's mind. And you particularly do seem to know your gut stuff. I've enjoyed it all thoroughly. And the almost spiritual reverie Amazoniac and pboy generate is priceless.

 

[EnoreeG]

But just eating a lot more fermentable fiber just seemed to change the terrain utterly. Curiously brain fog and sleep problems that I wasn't even aware I suffered from, because I'd never known any different, also resolved in profound ways that still leave me almost a little angry that so many decades had been spent at the mercy of a dysbiotic gut. It did take over a year for my toenails to become like toenails should be. The lifelong athletes foot/dandruff completely disappeared in a little over 7 months. I think a dandruff sufferer uses up a tremendous amount of energy just replenishing the flakes. Not to mention the hard earned you spend on latest potion or drug/supplement some diet guru recommends to 'target' the problem.

I do think many followers of Dr. Peat, and perhaps even he, think that what happens in your colon is less important than what happens in the upper digestive tract. Surely they are equally important. Your colon isn't a physiological afterthought. It's a huge, breathtakingly powerful determinant of whether you thrive or struggle with health issues. Just as the rest of your body is. And in your colon, it's all about the bacteria, because it is ALL bacteria.

Stuart, do you think the skin/scalp/nail afflictions reflect excretion of toxins that invaded via the gut?

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

It doesn't take a genius to see the difference in stool quality after eating fermented foods and more fiber so long as you're not a specific case where you're allergic to those foods or are too constipated to deal with more fiber without working up to it.

I've read most of Peat's books, and while his brain book is quite good - he really misses a lot of important generalities about the gut and the gut-brain connection (including blood-brain barrier permeability, brain autoimmune problems, allergies starting in the gut, etc).

I think improved stool quality, though certainly worthwhile, is the least spectacular of the benefits of having feeding the microbiota the food it prefers. The allergy/food intolerance/ autoimmune disease effects are the real standouts. So many people who have suffered from lifelong gluten , lactose, or specific food intolerances find lasting, drug free relief by just resurrecting their microbiome. And don't forget that such problems can often compound across generations. Several generations of neglected colon microbiota (you get your mum's perhaps crappy microbiome in the birth canal after all) can deal you a really shoddy hand. Which makes the work you have to do to get your microbiome back on track in your own lifetime even harder.

Roger that, least spectacular, but in order to be less confusing I try to present obvious indicators. So many people distrust their mind and body in comparison to vestigial information they've read... Starting them on obvious indicators is a start - and then they may realize, "I really do feel better eating this."

 

[Stuart]

@ EnoreeG
Oops, just realized I've been misspelling your handle the entire time. My apologies

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

In my own case lifelong candida/thrush issues I inherited from my Mother and which cheerfully showed the finger to every anti candida protocol I've ever tried (not to mention making adherence to the dietary approaches very difficult because yeasts don't like being starved, and will fight back). But just eating a lot more fermentable fiber just seemed to change the terrain utterly. Curiously brain fog and sleep problems that I wasn't even aware I suffered from, because I'd never known any different, also resolved in profound ways that still leave me almost a little angry that so many decades had been spent at the mercy of a dysbiotic gut. It did take over a year for my toenails to become like toenails should be. The lifelong athletes foot/dandruff completely disappeared in a little over 7 months. I think a dandruff sufferer uses up a tremendous amount of energy just replenishing the flakes. Not to mention the hard earned you spend on latest potion or drug/supplement some diet guru recommends to 'target' the problem.

I do think many followers of Dr. Peat, and perhaps even he, think that what happens in your colon is less important than what happens in the upper digestive tract. Surely they are equally important. Your colon isn't a physiological afterthought. It's a huge, breathtakingly powerful determinant of whether you thrive or struggle with health issues. Just as the rest of your body is. And in your colon, it's all about the bacteria, because it is ALL bacteria.

Here is where your experience speaks to what we're missing out on every time someone suggests "oh, your gut will be in fine health if you just up your metabolism/temperature." It would be great if we could get some scientists to focus on protocols that are reliable. Supposedly these plaques that come out when people do "cleanses" are not seen by any gastroenterologists. I've come up with an idea for changing the gut in a more structured way, but have not had the time & resources to apply to it. Anyone really interested is welcome to help me out and help motivate me:
1) determine how much enteric coating you personally need to get things exploding in your small intestine
2) add that much
3) titrate other layers of coating which accurately only affect areas throughout the small intestine vs the large intestine
4) smaller doses will be used and will be spread more evenly throughout the intestines in order to reduce concentration and clumping

Various substances can be used in these capsules to engineer the existing population
1) things which kill various types of organisms
2) things which promote or decrease various types of organisms
3) the introduction of various types of organisms

Problems with only certain small segments of the guy can exist based on innervation, inflammation, and old injury. This is also not well studied and we need better procedures to repair asymmetrical damaged guts (whereas suggesting something is merely bacterial implies relative homogeny in the small and large intestines, respectively).

 

[EnoreeG]

@ EnoreeG
Oops, just realized I've been misspelling your handle the entire time. My apologies

I never noticed! No prob. I sort of like the energy of the way you did it :!:

 

[jyb]

In my own case lifelong candida/thrush issues I inherited from my Mother and which cheerfully showed the finger to every anti candida protocol I've ever tried (not to mention making adherence to the dietary approaches very difficult because yeasts don't like being starved, and will fight back). But just eating a lot more fermentable fiber just seemed to change the terrain utterly. Curiously brain fog and sleep problems that I wasn't even aware I suffered from, because I'd never known any different, also resolved in profound ways that still leave me almost a little angry that so many decades had been spent at the mercy of a dysbiotic gut. It did take over a year for my toenails to become like toenails should be. The lifelong athletes foot/dandruff completely disappeared in a little over 7 months. I think a dandruff sufferer uses up a tremendous amount of energy just replenishing the flakes. Not to mention the hard earned you spend on latest potion or drug/supplement some diet guru recommends to 'target' the problem.

What did eat as fermentable fibre to fix your issues? I would be surprised if just eating vegetables like many people do would fix gut problems.

 

[EnoreeG]

@Enorgee
You are incredibly well informed about the mechanisms involved. Hat tip indeed. I learn something new every time you people post. I really do. Also, this forum is incredibly well designed. Writing a comment is so painless.
All the right bells and whistles. It's very rare....

But as Amazoniac said, If you have a dysbiotic gut, particularly SIBO , it isn't just a matter of packing in the fermentable fiber. So doing can often exacerbate SIBO....

Resurrecting a dysbiotic gut is definitely 'nuanced'....

Thanks for the kind words Stuart. And the praise for this forum. I agree that not just the format and tools, but the dispositions of the participants make it more than a pleasure to indulge in.

Along the lines of the nuances of rebuilding a robust gastrointestinal tract, that is why I keep hanging on this thread, and some others here. I'm hoping we can get some help in testimony or science along the lines of addressing Amazoniac's puzzle of how to renew gut health without causing additional distress.

I don't expect an exact protocol, good for everyone, or even good for just one or two. I know it's going to be something each person with dysbiosis has to figure, and build for themselves. After all, we each start with not just different symptoms, but with different food supplies, environmental toxins, and not the least, different microbiomes. In truth, I have no idea how I got over some problems like modest SIBO, hemorrhoids, dandruff, systemic staph infection. Gradually, symptoms went away. And yes, I was making changes. More exercise, less sugar (eventually none), more home-grown foods, less stress. During all this, fiber crept into my diet in somewhat large quantities, I changed a lot of supplements, and read a lot on nutrition and changed my diet in many, many ways. What changes are responsible for my current health? I have no idea. But I'm not backing up and re-introducing may of the things I now avoid. So I may not be much smarter, but I'm healthier.

The general rules seem to be, you can almost forget about your particular diagnosis as rule #1 because some of the cure may involve taking the same basic steps. I said "almost", so don't critique this too heavily!

Some of the other rules are to remove some of the most usual allergenic foods until you get some improvement, try some probiotics, use only fresh as possible, organic foods, and increase fiber if you seem to have little, but increase it gradually. Admittedly, that's a huge number of variables to toy with. No way people can do this scientifically. But we do have our 6 senses (includes gut feelings!) and note taking ability.

 

[Amazoniac]

how to renew gut health without causing additional distress.

I honestly don't know.
I just try to offer ways that someone can narrow the issue until the rest can be taken care by the organism.
Overgrowths in the small intestine seem to be the most difficult ones to treat, especially without the aid of drugs.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Wow you guys have little to do ?

I don't know if this is quorum sensing.

Well yeah depends on your definition. I call quorum sensing: the ability of micro-organisms to sense their environment and respond accordingly. May not be directly but indirect by, among others, altering adhesion, colonization and motility, the microbial behaviour and population density is certainly changing.

 

[FredSonoma]

Honey and cow's milk contain oligos right? Wouldn't that feed gut bacteria in the large intestine?

 

[FredSonoma]

What if this "large bag of bacteria," as Stuart calls it, exists because we evolved in an environment where access to enough nutrition without tons of fiber was impossible - thus we needed this large intestine to process all this fiber and acquire extra nutrition from it that could potentially make us healthier and stronger.

Does that necessarily mean that it is necessary for us to use this bag?

Similarly, we evolved a liver to detoxify certain chemicals from our body, as we evolved in an environment where their presence was inevitable, but that does not mean it is necessary to our good health to consume toxins for the liver to detox.

 

[pboy]

you guys still going on about this? The real question is do you want to have gas or do you not want to have gas...that's basically it. Stuart must have taken a microscope to many anus's over his life in order to know that much in detail of its workings. How do you know anything about how humans evolved or anything really at all. All you can know is how your present experience and body functions based on experience. Just because sick people living in cities in a toxic soup, filled with faulty wiring, living an inharminous lifestyle, the ones that subject themselves to a doctor checking out their colon contents, have bacteria, doesn't mean its supposed to be that way, normal, right, or in any way shape or form admirable. Usually only festering ***t has a lot of bacteria, and many peoples lives are basically a festering ***t, so its fitting. Id never have myself tested but im pretty sure its something quite different than the type of people you're talking about

im pretty sure most people have so much bacteria because they are eating a lot of indigestible food, that's basically it...its a way to prevent colon blockage from sticky material, the bacteria break it into more soluble products that can be eliminated...that's why the immune system lets them live there. At the same time they are throwing out toxic by products but that is better than having colon blockage. The less you allow garbage to enter your large intestine, the less bacteria necessary, the less toxic by products enter your blood and liver, the better you function. Resistant starch is a huge obvious thing, its not soluble, and sticky, and in the end of the colon once water is squeezed out it would become hard and sticky and casue blockage if not for bacteria eating it. Semi digested protein is similar

At any point in time the immune system could nuke the bacteria out, but based on how your mind is, what you eat, what you would potentially eat, ect, it keeps them around to the extent it thinks they are needed

the more bacteria action happening, the more serotonin, which is released from the same type of cells that trigger allergic reactions and histamine and stuff, its not something that's ideal, its something that happens when poisons or offenses happen, and it shifts your body more from functioning to immunity and detoxing. Its a ***t way to live