Bodhi
Member
Hey Peatarians....
For many years i have done fasting combined with deep intestinal cleansing.
I went to Thailand every year to go on a retreat holiday for a month to include a 7 or 11 day detox with colonics.
The reason i have always been attracted to this is simply because while my food is converted into feces this process always produces allot of gas.
I read the book Cleanse and Purify Thyself from dr R. Anderson and used the Arise And Shine Products.
This "dr" is a classic naturopath who promotes raw (living) foods, low carbs and vegetarianism.
Now i never have been a raw foodie, more towards Ayurvedic cooking including meats n fish before i discovered Ray Peat.
So although i am not in favor of what Anderson says about diet, i do agree and have experienced amazing benefits from his protocols, for example he developed a product called chomper to soften the plaque inside the intestinal tract which contains Cascara Bark, and the other overlapping aspect is that he advocates using coffee colonics...
About the pro-biotics he has very in depth views which do seem to be more in line with the classic Naturopath doctrine...
I have been Peating for about 2 years now, and cause i still love the detox colonics retreats i will always keep on doing this, but i decided to adjust it, let's say i want to combine the benefits with Peats ideas..
Practically this would mean that i will never go on this detox without food anymore , instead i will keep eating fruits, juices and allot of coconut juices... all to keep blood sugar at bay.
The more i read and listen about what Peat says about sterile guts makes me very unsure which path to choose.
Actually i am a bit frustrated how Ray seems to be so specifically scientific about almost all subjects but when i comes down to gut flora he is very assumptive about it and contradictory...
The reason why i share this is that i am trying to create a protocol for myself which takes the best of both worlds and combine it.
This September i will be going for one of those retreats in Thailand again since a few years and i will keep eating fruits and drinking coconut juices to keep metabolism not going to low...
Now my dilemma is this: dr Anderson advocates that while u cleanse the bowels with colonics u need to replace your bowels with pro-biotics, the product he developed contains not the usual strains for example L.Infantis which u usually get as a baby when breast fed, the fact that pro-biotics are found in breast milk must mean something right? At the same time u can say that when a mother has a PUFA diet she will offcourse transfer this to the baby as well, so the fact that certain substances are being found in breast milk does not mean they are beneficial (drugs, nicotine, toxins, metals, xeno estrogens etc)
The thing is that Peat refers to the mouse experiment where guts where sterilized and they had better immune function and lived longer due to the absence of endotoxins....
Now i would say that if we put humans in a lab and sterilize their guts they would probably die very soon because a laboratory environment seems very stressful and unnatural to me...
While Peat is stating that even positive gram bacteria produce endotoxin and lactic acid at the same time he ASSUMES that this is reason why the sterilized mice where doing better and he also states that the Biosporin product from Ukraine which contains L. Subtilis and L licheniformis spores can be very beneficial ...
Also he says that even when we sterilize our guts its very hard to keep it this way, cause especially (this is my idea not Peat's) when we start to eat clean unprocessed foods like raw milk, organic dairy, grass fed "organ"meats, underground roots and tuber (organic)
I am positive that these foods contain spores and traces of various pro-biotic strains.
Personally i believe that when we lived nomadic lives as hunter gatherers we came in contact with the soil so much more than nowadays, and we moved from fertile strips of land on and on so we definitely came in contact with a very broad variety of strains.
U can even say that today we live in a sterilized lab compared to those times.
Not to mention the idea that humans with a good set of genes (Alpha males and strong fertile woman) are biologically "programmed" to spread their genes and to have sex with as much humans as possible cause that is beneficial for the human species and i think this having allot of different partners has a purpose and i do not believe humans are monogamous by nature, a side effect of this is that humans who are the strongest and the fittest have most changes of spreading their seeds but this also means that they come into contact with allot of different bacteria (oral sex, anal sex)....
Now i am not saying that modern health challenges are caused by this i am just very surprised that even without scientific data about this or throughout knowledge about these bacteria Ray Peat does not take these aspects into account to come to his conclusions.
Now the reason i am putting this forward is that i am not sure anymore what to do...
Just to go on this cleanse and simply not replace my colon with any pro-biotics or order the Biosporin Forte from Ukraine and take this after the cleanse maybe even add some Saccharomyces boulardii...
So i guess from here there are 4 options :
1. go on this deep bowel cleanse WITHOUT replacing with any pro or pre-biotics, keep eating Peat style and see how i go.
2. Same as above but even do a few weeks of Doxycycline to be SURE the small intestine is sterilized and see how that goes.
3. Same as above but add only the Bacteria Peat mentions and see how this goes (including the antibiotics)
4. Same as option 1 but add a combo (no anti biotics) of Peat mentioned bacteria COMBINED with the most positive reviewed gram positive bacteria like the once that create B vitamins, vitamin K and the once that eat gram negative ones)
I Realy look foward to your opinions and thoughts, my personal conclusion after reading all the post about this subject, listening to Peat, reading Peat and the Naturopath approaches i have to say that i think no one really knows much about what is the best protocol for a good intestinal foundation....
Bodhi
For many years i have done fasting combined with deep intestinal cleansing.
I went to Thailand every year to go on a retreat holiday for a month to include a 7 or 11 day detox with colonics.
The reason i have always been attracted to this is simply because while my food is converted into feces this process always produces allot of gas.
I read the book Cleanse and Purify Thyself from dr R. Anderson and used the Arise And Shine Products.
This "dr" is a classic naturopath who promotes raw (living) foods, low carbs and vegetarianism.
Now i never have been a raw foodie, more towards Ayurvedic cooking including meats n fish before i discovered Ray Peat.
So although i am not in favor of what Anderson says about diet, i do agree and have experienced amazing benefits from his protocols, for example he developed a product called chomper to soften the plaque inside the intestinal tract which contains Cascara Bark, and the other overlapping aspect is that he advocates using coffee colonics...
About the pro-biotics he has very in depth views which do seem to be more in line with the classic Naturopath doctrine...
I have been Peating for about 2 years now, and cause i still love the detox colonics retreats i will always keep on doing this, but i decided to adjust it, let's say i want to combine the benefits with Peats ideas..
Practically this would mean that i will never go on this detox without food anymore , instead i will keep eating fruits, juices and allot of coconut juices... all to keep blood sugar at bay.
The more i read and listen about what Peat says about sterile guts makes me very unsure which path to choose.
Actually i am a bit frustrated how Ray seems to be so specifically scientific about almost all subjects but when i comes down to gut flora he is very assumptive about it and contradictory...
The reason why i share this is that i am trying to create a protocol for myself which takes the best of both worlds and combine it.
This September i will be going for one of those retreats in Thailand again since a few years and i will keep eating fruits and drinking coconut juices to keep metabolism not going to low...
Now my dilemma is this: dr Anderson advocates that while u cleanse the bowels with colonics u need to replace your bowels with pro-biotics, the product he developed contains not the usual strains for example L.Infantis which u usually get as a baby when breast fed, the fact that pro-biotics are found in breast milk must mean something right? At the same time u can say that when a mother has a PUFA diet she will offcourse transfer this to the baby as well, so the fact that certain substances are being found in breast milk does not mean they are beneficial (drugs, nicotine, toxins, metals, xeno estrogens etc)
The thing is that Peat refers to the mouse experiment where guts where sterilized and they had better immune function and lived longer due to the absence of endotoxins....
Now i would say that if we put humans in a lab and sterilize their guts they would probably die very soon because a laboratory environment seems very stressful and unnatural to me...
While Peat is stating that even positive gram bacteria produce endotoxin and lactic acid at the same time he ASSUMES that this is reason why the sterilized mice where doing better and he also states that the Biosporin product from Ukraine which contains L. Subtilis and L licheniformis spores can be very beneficial ...
Also he says that even when we sterilize our guts its very hard to keep it this way, cause especially (this is my idea not Peat's) when we start to eat clean unprocessed foods like raw milk, organic dairy, grass fed "organ"meats, underground roots and tuber (organic)
I am positive that these foods contain spores and traces of various pro-biotic strains.
Personally i believe that when we lived nomadic lives as hunter gatherers we came in contact with the soil so much more than nowadays, and we moved from fertile strips of land on and on so we definitely came in contact with a very broad variety of strains.
U can even say that today we live in a sterilized lab compared to those times.
Not to mention the idea that humans with a good set of genes (Alpha males and strong fertile woman) are biologically "programmed" to spread their genes and to have sex with as much humans as possible cause that is beneficial for the human species and i think this having allot of different partners has a purpose and i do not believe humans are monogamous by nature, a side effect of this is that humans who are the strongest and the fittest have most changes of spreading their seeds but this also means that they come into contact with allot of different bacteria (oral sex, anal sex)....
Now i am not saying that modern health challenges are caused by this i am just very surprised that even without scientific data about this or throughout knowledge about these bacteria Ray Peat does not take these aspects into account to come to his conclusions.
Now the reason i am putting this forward is that i am not sure anymore what to do...
Just to go on this cleanse and simply not replace my colon with any pro-biotics or order the Biosporin Forte from Ukraine and take this after the cleanse maybe even add some Saccharomyces boulardii...
So i guess from here there are 4 options :
1. go on this deep bowel cleanse WITHOUT replacing with any pro or pre-biotics, keep eating Peat style and see how i go.
2. Same as above but even do a few weeks of Doxycycline to be SURE the small intestine is sterilized and see how that goes.
3. Same as above but add only the Bacteria Peat mentions and see how this goes (including the antibiotics)
4. Same as option 1 but add a combo (no anti biotics) of Peat mentioned bacteria COMBINED with the most positive reviewed gram positive bacteria like the once that create B vitamins, vitamin K and the once that eat gram negative ones)
I Realy look foward to your opinions and thoughts, my personal conclusion after reading all the post about this subject, listening to Peat, reading Peat and the Naturopath approaches i have to say that i think no one really knows much about what is the best protocol for a good intestinal foundation....
Bodhi
