Plant protein has much lower cellular uptake/utilization, compared to animal

[piro444]

were you vegetarian because of your convictions related to not taking animal lives? I've known lots of vegetarians that are clearly deteriorating and they would not even consider starting to eat meat again, they're not particularly open minded. What pushed you to stop after a decade of being vegetarian?

Yes indeed
I was “sacrificing” my health for their
An LSD trip + some synchronicities (being depressed for 10 years and vegetarian for the same timespan) made me realise that I was in the wrong and it didn’t make sense to stress myself so much for some animals that would’ve died anyways
Also I think that it was due to a raise in DHT that made my mentality “It’s either me or you, and I choose me”
Try to lower their estrogen and you’ll see a big difference in their mentality
I went to not even touching the same pan to eating liver in a month lol
I’m sorry but you can’t really change their mind up until a big health problems flares up, then they’ll see how a diet made of sacrifices and low nutrients is pointless

 

[Mister]

@haidut Are eggs a good protein source?

 

[76er]

How do you feel after eating them? I heard that refrigerating potatoes after they're cooked turns the starch into a matrix of fiber. This might be the best way to handle eating them without having to constantly cook fresh new potatoes.

Feel great. Give it a try.

Related is this recent thread => Storing potatoes in the fridge/cold can cause them to convert some of their starch into sugar

But I do my technique because it is what makes the best tasting fried potatoes.

 

[Wagner83]

Anecdotal evidence
I had been vegetarian for 10 years, stopped this march, but I’ve been going to the gym for about 4 years (3 if you don’t count the lockdown)
My protein intake has been the same ever since, so that was fixed
All I gotta say is that I’ve made better progress in the last months than ever before
Of course I was making “some progress”, but I was skinnyfat with a bit of muscles (the usual “chubby/fit”)
Nowadays I’m shredding the last pieces of fat with ease, and the only difference is that I eat meat now (and my carb intake has gone up ever since)
Kinda sad tbh, had to learn this the hard way ahah

How do you get shredded and stronger now? Can you give more details about your current diet? What foods, macros, calories? Did you use a particular formula to calculate your daily caloric intake?

 

[Runenight201]

From a vegan, “this accounts for neither whole food plant sources and is in vitro, and thus is a trash study”

 

[FrostedShores]

Are all plant protein sources a problem? I keep hearing good things about hemp protein; though, I haven't really looked much into it. Are there any plant protein sources anyone would recommend in conjunction with animal protein, or is it better to avoid plant protein altogether? I get plenty of protein from meat/dairy, so I'm asking purely out of curiosity.

 

[ThinPicking]

From a vegan, “this accounts for neither whole food plant sources and is in vitro, and thus is a trash study”

Not accurate or relevant.

You're not going to get critical thought from reddit users.

 

[FrostedShores]

Not accurate or relevant.

You're not going to get critical thought from reddit users.

Reddit users: "I only like the science when I agree with the science!"

 

[Yonebayashian]

This thread is just subtweeting Ray Peat

 

[baccheion]

Highly correlated proteins: beef, pork, milk, eggs, and potatoes. Good ole potatoes.

 

[lvysaur]

The highest NNU is about 0.9 and applies to whole egg protein as well as gelatin, milk protein is about 0.8, meat is about 0.7-0.75, and the plant proteins tested at the time were all below 0.6

I'm not disputing the central point, but there is something greater here. If it's only about bioavailability/uptake, then why don't I crave eggs all the time? Sometimes I simply require beef/pork to satiate me--if I don't, I'll end up eating eggs/fish/grain ad infinitum.

It's not because of an iron craving or any other craving for micronutrients, it's a craving specifically for the texture of that meat, and the stomach-satiating feeling. And I don't know what it signifies.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Thread


View: https://twitter.com/TheCoachFriso/status/1554048558277468162

View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tBE-FIxTRZdMNQBLlJ9AlU9V7hKoNVk3/view

 

[Limon9]

Despite the efforts of the powers that be, the evidence against the benefits of plant protein intake continues to accumulate. It has been known since the 1970s that the so-called net nitrogen utilization (NNU) of plant protein is quite low and potentially lower than 0.5, which means that consuming plant protein is actually a net harm for the body. The highest NNU is about 0.9 and applies to whole egg protein as well as gelatin, milk protein is about 0.8, meat is about 0.7-0.75, and the plant proteins tested at the time were all below 0.6 with some data suggesting a value below 0.5. However, those older studies were criticized by Big Agriculture as outdated and poorly designed and we have been bombarded ever since by propaganda 24x7 on how plant protein is the greatest thing under the sun and we should all switch over to eating that instead of animal protein...and if we still feel the need to eat animal protein then we will "eat bugs"...and "be happy" (as WEF claims). Well, the study below pours cold water on many of those claims by demonstrating that 1) plant protein is much less bioavailable compared to animal (chicken, in this case) protein and that 2) human cells have much lower uptake of plant protein compared to the animal protein. Now, the study just came out and I still don't have access to it, but if the older studies are correct plant protein has up to 30% lower bioavailability and 40%-60% lower cellular uptake/utilization compared to animal protein. If those numbers are true then plant protein is a no-go as far as meat replacement, even if the main factor in its usage is climate change since producing that much more protein (to account for its lower absorption/utilization) would negate any benefits it may have on climate change and carbon footprint.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.2c01711
Human cells take in less protein from a plant-based 'meat' than from chicken

"...Consumers can now buy almost any type of alternative meat, from ground beef to fish sticks. To mimic the look and texture of the real thing, plants are dehydrated into a powder and mixed with seasonings. Then, the mixtures are typically heated, moistened and processed through an extruder. These products are often thought of as being more healthful than animal meats because the plants used to make them are high in protein and low in undesirable fats. However, lab tests have shown that proteins in substitutes don't break down into peptides as well as those from meats. Osvaldo Campanella, Da Chen and colleagues wanted to go a step further and see if human cells can absorb similar amounts of peptides from a model meat alternative as they can from a piece of chicken. The researchers created a model meat alternative made of soy and wheat gluten with the extrusion process. When cut open, the material had long fibrous pieces inside, just like chicken. Cooked pieces of the substitute and chicken meat were then ground up and broken down with an enzyme that humans use to digest food. In vitro tests showed that meat-substitute peptides were less water-soluble than those from chicken, and they also were not absorbed as well by human cells. With this new understanding, the researchers say the next step is to identify other ingredients that could help boost the peptide uptake of plant-based meat substitutes."

Good stuff - do you think the NNU of "plant protein" as such is uniformly low? Besides the obvious resemblance between leaf and milk protein, I know Ray has expounded on the favorable effects of nixtamalization on AA composition & the quality of fruit protein. Some (like pineapple) also have ketoacids.

 

[aniciete]

Bless bio eggs. I eat 5/day. It's the best natural test booster on this planet

What are bio eggs?

 

[Lollipop2]

What are bio eggs?

Maybe biodynamic eggs?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Despite the efforts of the powers that be, the evidence against the benefits of plant protein intake continues to accumulate. It has been known since the 1970s that the so-called net nitrogen utilization (NNU) of plant protein is quite low and potentially lower than 0.5, which means that consuming plant protein is actually a net harm for the body. The highest NNU is about 0.9 and applies to whole egg protein as well as gelatin, milk protein is about 0.8, meat is about 0.7-0.75, and the plant proteins tested at the time were all below 0.6 with some data suggesting a value below 0.5. However, those older studies were criticized by Big Agriculture as outdated and poorly designed and we have been bombarded ever since by propaganda 24x7 on how plant protein is the greatest thing under the sun and we should all switch over to eating that instead of animal protein...and if we still feel the need to eat animal protein then we will "eat bugs"...and "be happy" (as WEF claims). Well, the study below pours cold water on many of those claims by demonstrating that 1) plant protein is much less bioavailable compared to animal (chicken, in this case) protein and that 2) human cells have much lower uptake of plant protein compared to the animal protein. Now, the study just came out and I still don't have access to it, but if the older studies are correct plant protein has up to 30% lower bioavailability and 40%-60% lower cellular uptake/utilization compared to animal protein. If those numbers are true then plant protein is a no-go as far as meat replacement, even if the main factor in its usage is climate change since producing that much more protein (to account for its lower absorption/utilization) would negate any benefits it may have on climate change and carbon footprint.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.2c01711
Human cells take in less protein from a plant-based 'meat' than from chicken

"...Consumers can now buy almost any type of alternative meat, from ground beef to fish sticks. To mimic the look and texture of the real thing, plants are dehydrated into a powder and mixed with seasonings. Then, the mixtures are typically heated, moistened and processed through an extruder. These products are often thought of as being more healthful than animal meats because the plants used to make them are high in protein and low in undesirable fats. However, lab tests have shown that proteins in substitutes don't break down into peptides as well as those from meats. Osvaldo Campanella, Da Chen and colleagues wanted to go a step further and see if human cells can absorb similar amounts of peptides from a model meat alternative as they can from a piece of chicken. The researchers created a model meat alternative made of soy and wheat gluten with the extrusion process. When cut open, the material had long fibrous pieces inside, just like chicken. Cooked pieces of the substitute and chicken meat were then ground up and broken down with an enzyme that humans use to digest food. In vitro tests showed that meat-substitute peptides were less water-soluble than those from chicken, and they also were not absorbed as well by human cells. With this new understanding, the researchers say the next step is to identify other ingredients that could help boost the peptide uptake of plant-based meat substitutes."

I don't doubt this.

However how do you keep tryptophan(serotonin), methionine, cysteine down?

Does anyone know of Master Ammino Acid Profile MAP Like supplement that lacks the above there. Particularly tryptophan.

I recently started eating Pea protein, brown rice, and caseine and I feel loads better physically and most importantly mentally. Thyroid seems to lift significantly


Gelatin does not work for me.

 

[laleto12]

does anyone have access to the full study? Thanks.