Why Intermittent Fasting Actually Works (it’s Not What You Think)

Discussion in 'Articles & Scientific Studies' started by Hans, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Intermittent fasting is still somewhat of a hot topic as it does give some people benefits (temporary and some long term). I think one of the most reasons why it works is often overlooked because a lot of people are unaware of it.

    I want to bring awareness to this reason and also to the fact that it's unnecessary to do IF for most of its benefits.

    Why intermittent fasting actually works (it's not what you think) » MENELITE

    Let me know your thoughts.
     
  2. snacks

    snacks Member

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    Good article. Explains why I found IF highly beneficial a year or so ago but just unpleasant now
     
  3. Recoen

    Recoen Member

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    Do you notice similar results from Mg taurate or taurine compared to TUDCA? Specifically regarding liver health and cognitive function?

    On another note regarding your Friday email: if weightlifting leaves your muscles with the 2 day DOMS, what most will say is from “lactic acid”, is that because your liver is struggling to process the lactate through the cori cycle? Why does this seem to go away pretty quickly as people get used to lifting again? Lactate transport becomes more efficient?
     
  4. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    Thank you Hans!

    I would like to pick your brains on prolonged water fasts, more than 5 days.
    Do you see any regenerative benefits of autophagy, or do they represent a net negative with nutrient deficiency among other downsides?
     
  5. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Endotoxemia seems to be a huge factor in all manner of disease and getting it down should be paramount.

    But even though IF decreases endotoxemia temporarily it doesn't seem to resolve the underlying issue since most people who do IF eventually see their gut and overall health decline again. I think IF allows dysbiosis to persist by reducing intestinal motility and bile flow.

    I'd speculate that keeping intestinal motility high with regular meals combined with regular upright movement like walking is a better long term strategy against dysbiosis.
     
  6. LLight

    LLight Member

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  7. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I've wondered about my brother having gone thru IF. He had a distended stomach and that went away. So I don't think the effect is not simply loss of weight, but the loss of edema. There was a lot of unwanted cellular water lost it seems. Perhaps this is related to endotoxins, or it could also be related to immune complexes. Regardless, I think these particles have the abiity to cause inflammation, and the inflammation causes organ dysfunction, such as in the liver and the kidneys.

    I once lost my perfect blood sugar control and gained 20 lbs in 6 months when I used systemic enzymes that cleared some of my arterial plaques. I knew it was working because my oxygen saturation improved from 99 to 97, indicating better tissue oxygenation from less plaque blocking tissue oxygenation. But the downside was that I began to experience low energy and hunger during the day, and I had trouble sleeping well.

    I decided to do a 2-day dry fast to see if that would help. And it did. After the fast, I no longer felt low energy and hunger during the day, and my sleep improved. I started to see my waistline get smaller as my pants were starting to loosen around my waist.

    I used to focus on the endotoxins, but now I realize immune complexes could have a similar effect, or even worse effect. I say worse because immune complexes could cause many related symptoms, such as high blood pressure (from being deposited in kidneys), poor blood sugar control and obesity (from being deposited in the liver), hair loss (from being deposited in the scalp capillaries), arthritis (from being deposited in the synovial fluids of joints), and irregular heart beats (from being deposited in the capillaries of the aorta).

    Given how we are all exposed to vaccines, and given that vaccines can easily alter how our body disposes itself to create antibodies that bind with antigens to form immune complexes, I think we can all benefit in understanding the effects of immune complexes on our health. Consider how much more sensitive people are these days compared to people in the early 1900s, with regard to allergens, is it just a matter of coincidence that vaccines have become all too common and pervasive to us? Why are people in the US much more prone to celiac disease and to peanut allergies? Isn't it because the US is the most heavily vaccinated population in the world? I'm from the Philippines, and we're not subject to as much vaccination, and I would ask myself often why people here in RPF have so many internal issues? I can't identify with the issues, although I've got one issue which I suspect to be vaccine-related - my hypertension. I have a gnawing feeling that had I not gotten vaccinated around 2000, in order to get my US citizenship, I would not have an immune complex problem that I have finally determined to be the cause of my hypertension.
     
  8. rei

    rei Member

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    A relevant video released today
     
  9. LLight

    LLight Member

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    Fasting is catabolic but it also seems like it could be enhancing detoxification pathways.

    The immune system could also be benefiting from fasting, short term (more active immune system, like macrophages activation) and long term (rejuvenation of the pool of lymphocytes).

    I guess the two concepts are intertwined.
     
  10. Beastmode

    Beastmode Member

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    "The reduction in gut irritation and subsequent inflammation" definitely explains why I felt good when IF. That came with cold hands and feet :thumbsdown:

    I may try it again using the whole fruit/fruit juice tweak to see what happens. Go until noon before doing my usual milk/coffee combo followed by eggs and OJ.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Member

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    • Do a fruit fast, which is basically when you eat whole fruits and/or drink fruit juice during the fasting period.
    In your article you mention a fruit fast. I like that idea but why do so many say you should never eat fruit or any other sugar without a protein?
    If I eat fruit only in the mornings will it cause some kind of blood sugar issue?
     
  12. Twohandsondeck

    Twohandsondeck Member

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    Eat fruit by itself (away from protein or fat by 3+ hours), with fiber (preferably from the fruit itself), and in smaller quantities so as to not overwhelm the liver with an excess of fructose.

    Fruit fasting for a few days is very powerful imo, but you'll definitely run into issues if you slam too many fruit juices or eat until satiety on just fruit. In my experience it was either nausea or immediate fatigue.

    I'll add that I spent about a month where 95% of my calories came from grapes or oranges, no animal products at all, just herbal supplements a couple times a day... And the benefits plateaued after about 3 weeks. By the second month of keeping this up (had rice and beans a few times) I was pretty shot.

    There was definitely a gut-cleansing benefit for a while there, though. Felt worse after a week, then amazing, then slowly degraded into a wispy blade of grass with little exercise potential.

    Thanks for all of the content, @Hans
     
  13. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Depends on how well your body handles sugar. This is not about genes. It's about how good your blood sugar regulation is. It's about health from from the standpoint of blood sugar regulation. So don't buy into the trope you'll frequently encounter on Google searches that make you think that you are, for example, born naturally as a grazer - that you need to eat many small meals throughout the day to keep your blood sugar stable. However helpful that may be, that is merely a lifestyle adaptation to deal with faulty blood sugar regulation that leaves you often with low blood sugar shortly after a meal.

    If you're in tip top shape blood sugar wise, you can fast all day and your blood sugar will stay stable in normal range - around 75 to 90. In between, you can even eat white sugar, and you will still feel fine. It will hardly disturb your blood sugar. For this kind of person, blood sugar is easily absorbed by tissues and blood sugar does not rise to high levels, only to quickly go down when a strong insulin response occurs.

    Most people aren't like that, often the result of a lifestyle they aren't aware of that contributed to poor blood sugar regulation.

    Some will find fruit juice better than white sugar because fruit juice has potassium that helps with absorption of blood sugar into tissues.

    Some will do better taking complex carbs like white rice because a complex carb takes longer to break down into sugar and get assimilated into the blood stream. So the lower rate at which sugar goes into blood eases the shock of a sudden outpouring of sugar into the blood.

    Some will still find this difficult to handle, and accompanying protein and some fats will help. As protein contains potassium, which aids in sugar absorption by tissues, and fats will slow down digestion, and slow down assimilation of sugar into the blood stream.

    If this is not enough still, then replacing white rice with brown rice will help further slow down digestion.

    If you're aware of your present blood sugar regulation capabilities, you'll be able to find the kind of macros that are suitable for your current condition. This is way lot better than listening to someone else telling you what works for him, and telling you what works for him will work for you.

    And then if you decide to be able to take white sugar and be bulletproof against it, you can work on improving your blood sugar regulation where you reach an optimal state.

    People who jump into a so-called Ray Peat Diet, rich in simple sugars, are asking for trouble when they don't even know what their blood sugar regulation capability is.
     
  14. Ableton

    Ableton Member

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    im doing it atm, just fruit (juices), coffee with skim milk all day and then a big dinner. If I crave protein I sometimes have a can of tuna during the day. I feel great but am aware this might be short term Benefits and that it could be difficult to get in enough nutrients considering how many I got before

    but boy my mental clarity is through the roof in comparison to eating and drinking milk all day. ******* endotoxins/ serotonin
     
  15. Recoen

    Recoen Member

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    What are your go to dinners?
     
  16. OP
    Hans

    Hans Member

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    I have not used magnesium taurate or TUDCA before, however I'm going to do a high dose taurine experiment soon and will see how that goes. I don't have any gut, liver and cognitive issues, so the effects might be very subtle, but will see. My wife used TUDCA before, but didn't feel all that much, so will see how she feels when she uses high dose taurine with me.
    However, I've seen people report much better gut effects with TUDCA than taurine.
    DOMS is due to micro-tears in the muscles and not lactic acid. So when DOMS starts to go away with repeated training, you simply don't get that much muscle damage anymore, which is preferable.
    SO heavy weight training, especially the eccentric part can cause a lot of muscle damage and result in massive DOMS. Higher rep training can also give you lots of DOMS initially, but it tends to go away over time.
     
  17. OP
    Hans

    Hans Member

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    My pleasure man. Long duration fasts do have benefits and they are well-documented. However, I just think that doing them repeatedly in close proximity will do more harm than good. Aging is a catabolic process, so adding more catabolism will not be all that good. So as long as you make sure your regeneration is in check, then occasional longer-term fasting might not be that harmful, but then again I'm also skeptical of how useful longer-term fasting will be.
    For example, how do the health benefits of longer-term fasting compare with keeping the gut healthy, keeping inflammation low, optimizing steroidogenesis and thyroid, keeping stress low, etc., without fasting.
     
  18. OP
    Hans

    Hans Member

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    Yes definitely. IF can be a tool, but it rarely solves the root cause. Once someone stops doing IF, their gut issues return. Or at least they actually still have gut issues when they do eat during their eating window.
    I've found that lowering gut inflammation doubled my motility time, without doing anything else, which is awesome.
     
  19. OP
    Hans

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    Since IF lowers inflammation, it's bound to have benefits. Inflammation inhibits proper autophagy whereas anti-inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10 promote proper autophagy.
    IF can be a useful tool, but I don't think it should be forced if it doesn't work for someone.
     
  20. OP
    Hans

    Hans Member

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    So if I understand you correctly, doing only one 2 day fast helped solve your hunger issues and actually halted weight gain and even started promoting fat loss? Is this without doing anything else?
    There is a study that a 3 day fast can reset the immune system IIRC, so it can definitely be helpful. However, I've heard of many people that have tried longer term fasting with no improvement.
    I still think the gut is very important when it comes to the immune system. The TLR family is there to recognize foreign invaders and stimulate an immune response. If there is gut dysbiosis, these receptors can either be hypo or hypermethylated which alters the immune system response.
     
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