Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse

[Ron J]

Cirion is right. If you have been restricting calories you will absolutely gain weight temporarily when you are eating enough. If you Don't gain more weight than you would normally carry, you are still restricting. May I ask Cirion and RonJ, would you say when you were eating plenty of calories, were you following your body's desire for fats, carbs and proteins or were you deciding ahead of time and making rules about ratios?

Same quantity, except the times I cheated(not many) by consuming some fat, but it was just one meal out of the three I eat in a day.

 

[Cirion]

@Kelj

I received some coaching from a well known person who used to post here. As much as I am annoyed that I feel like he caused my weight gain, I'm not gonna name names. But he did at least get me over the fear of consuming a lot of calories I guess.

The problem is that for myself and many with metabolism problems, we have lost our sense of what foods help and what don't or what we need. If I knew that I'd be eating them. Fatty foods seem helpful in the short time since I often temporarily feel good after eating ice cream, and then after feel awful and I put all of the fat I eat towards body fat, so I can't use taste as a gauge. Tasting good is not necessarily equal to what we need for health. I could eat chocolate ice cream all day. My sense of being able to determine what is good for me is just completely broken. This is the case for a lot of other people as well. Ice cream in particular bloats me up like no other food and I am convinced it is one of the foods that caused almost all my body fat gain.

I am 280 lbs now, there is no way anyone can tell me this is a healthy weight. I agree that the ideal weight is probably higher than most think but not that high. I am clearly fat with a very pudgy stomach and there is no way the body did this in an attempt to make me healthy, especially seeing as how the weight was coming on at an endless 5-10 lb a week at times, which suggests bloat which is not a healthy form of weight gain because this excess water gain means way too much estrogen etc. Bloating is in no way healthy and means you are not absorbing food correctly. I was once around 200 and fairly lean and eating fat liberally just made me super fat. Suggesting to eat fat liberally is just a criminal mistake and I hope no one else makes this mistake like I did. Just telling people to eat through 100 lb of weight gain is horrible advice (not saying you're saying this specifically, but my coach did essentially). 20 lbs? OK... sure. But once it starts to creep beyond that, there is something wrong. All this was the result of NOT counting calories and just eating whatever. I've only managed the weight gain since dropping dietary fat (although I still don't really count calories, I just count fats mostly). The thing is that a hypothyroid body needs CARBS not FATS. CARBS restore a glucose metabolism, CO2, etc etc. Fats at best do little to nothing, unless it is saturated fats and even then, they can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism.

 

[Kelj]

@Kelj

I received some coaching from a well known person who used to post here. As much as I am annoyed that I feel like he caused my weight gain, I'm not gonna name names. But he did at least get me over the fear of consuming a lot of calories I guess.

The problem is that for myself and many with metabolism problems, we have lost our sense of what foods help and what don't or what we need. If I knew that I'd be eating them. Fatty foods seem helpful in the short time since I often temporarily feel good after eating ice cream, and then after feel awful and I put all of the fat I eat towards body fat, so I can't use taste as a gauge. Tasting good is not necessarily equal to what we need for health. I could eat chocolate ice cream all day. My sense of being able to determine what is good for me is just completely broken. This is the case for a lot of other people as well. Ice cream in particular bloats me up like no other food and I am convinced it is one of the foods that caused almost all my body fat gain.

I am 280 lbs now, there is no way anyone can tell me this is a healthy weight. I agree that the ideal weight is probably higher than most think but not that high. I am clearly fat with a very pudgy stomach and there is no way the body did this in an attempt to make me healthy, especially seeing as how the weight was coming on at an endless 5-10 lb a week at times, which suggests bloat which is not a healthy form of weight gain because this excess water gain means way too much estrogen etc. Bloating is in no way healthy and means you are not absorbing food correctly. I was once around 200 and fairly lean and eating fat liberally just made me super fat. Suggesting to eat fat liberally is just a criminal mistake and I hope no one else makes this mistake like I did. Just telling people to eat through 100 lb of weight gain is horrible advice (not saying you're saying this specifically, but my coach did essentially). 20 lbs? OK... sure. But once it starts to creep beyond that, there is something wrong. All this was the result of NOT counting calories and just eating whatever. I've only managed the weight gain since dropping dietary fat (although I still don't really count calories, I just count fats mostly). The thing is that a hypothyroid body needs CARBS not FATS. CARBS restore a glucose metabolism, CO2, etc etc. Fats at best do little to nothing, unless it is saturated fats and even then, they can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism.

Edema: The Bane (and Blessing) of the Recovery Process
I would only suggest this article for an explanation, which tracks with my experience and coming through the other side.

 

[InChristAlone]

@Kelj

I received some coaching from a well known person who used to post here. As much as I am annoyed that I feel like he caused my weight gain, I'm not gonna name names. But he did at least get me over the fear of consuming a lot of calories I guess.

The problem is that for myself and many with metabolism problems, we have lost our sense of what foods help and what don't or what we need. If I knew that I'd be eating them. Fatty foods seem helpful in the short time since I often temporarily feel good after eating ice cream, and then after feel awful and I put all of the fat I eat towards body fat, so I can't use taste as a gauge. Tasting good is not necessarily equal to what we need for health. I could eat chocolate ice cream all day. My sense of being able to determine what is good for me is just completely broken. This is the case for a lot of other people as well. Ice cream in particular bloats me up like no other food and I am convinced it is one of the foods that caused almost all my body fat gain.

I am 280 lbs now, there is no way anyone can tell me this is a healthy weight. I agree that the ideal weight is probably higher than most think but not that high. I am clearly fat with a very pudgy stomach and there is no way the body did this in an attempt to make me healthy, especially seeing as how the weight was coming on at an endless 5-10 lb a week at times, which suggests bloat which is not a healthy form of weight gain because this excess water gain means way too much estrogen etc. Bloating is in no way healthy and means you are not absorbing food correctly. I was once around 200 and fairly lean and eating fat liberally just made me super fat. Suggesting to eat fat liberally is just a criminal mistake and I hope no one else makes this mistake like I did. Just telling people to eat through 100 lb of weight gain is horrible advice (not saying you're saying this specifically, but my coach did essentially). 20 lbs? OK... sure. But once it starts to creep beyond that, there is something wrong. All this was the result of NOT counting calories and just eating whatever. I've only managed the weight gain since dropping dietary fat (although I still don't really count calories, I just count fats mostly). The thing is that a hypothyroid body needs CARBS not FATS. CARBS restore a glucose metabolism, CO2, etc etc. Fats at best do little to nothing, unless it is saturated fats and even then, they can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism.

It it means anything Cirion, my husband gained a significant amount of weight too, but I don't blame the Peat diet. He was very thin and had a very active job he was undereating for sure for many years. Then he got a desk job with more responsibility and the weight just piled on. He eats pretty good now and it's near impossible to lose the belly fat. Sure he has quite a few cheat days, but even on the days he's active working out and eating good he doesn't lose much weight. I think the real cause is desk jobs plus stress. I also gained belly fat after my stress decreased majorly. I was thin while going through the stress.

 

[Cirion]

Edema: The Bane (and Blessing) of the Recovery Process
I would only suggest this article for an explanation, which tracks with my experience and coming through the other side.

Yes there can and will be bloating... But it shouldn't be continuous indefinitely. I kept gaining and gaining and gaining for 6 months. Again, dietary fat is an optional nutrient - especially when you're fat. Why should I consume dietary fat when I have 300,000 calorie worth of fat in my body already? Again, bloating (At least after 6 months still) probably means other issues - Like allergies, bad gut microbiome, parasites, ETC. Just eating through it is not gonna help in that case. And just to reiterate I DO believe in eating as much as you want - as long as it's low fat.

Dietary carbohydrate (and some protein) are the only needed nutrients because the body has a much limited store (OK the body does have a lot of protein stored, but you don't wanna be expending that =P). Carbs are stored in low quantities and must be replenished every day however plus is the body's preferred fuel source.

It it means anything Cirion, my husband gained a significant amount of weight too, but I don't blame the Peat diet. He was very thin and had a very active job he was undereating for sure for many years. Then he got a desk job with more responsibility and the weight just piled on. He eats pretty good now and it's near impossible to lose the belly fat. Sure he has quite a few cheat days, but even on the days he's active working out and eating good he doesn't lose much weight. I think the real cause is desk jobs plus stress. I also gained belly fat after my stress decreased majorly. I was thin while going through the stress.

Naw, because I recovered my health on a High carb low fat diet once in the past. The idea that the body needs dietary fat to be healthy is one of the biggest myths of all time. At one of the healthiest points in my life I was eating a zero fat diet. Why did I not just do that again you ask? Good question. I don't even have the answer to it LOL. Other than, I got confused by new research on saturated fats and whatnot and BTW the body can convert any carbs into fats that it needs to anyways. Again, a quick thought experiment verifies this -- Why would the body store hundreds of thousands of calories of body fat and then require you to eat more? Answer - it doesn't. Once you're down to a lot less body fat, OK sure, you might need to eat some - as I believe there is research to suggest that when body fat starts getting TOO low it might have hormonal effects (negatively) and there is such a thing as TOO low estrogen. When you think about it, the body IS actually REALLY GOOD AT SURVIVING. Body fat is extremely anti-metabolic and pro-estrogen. This lowers your metabolism and promotes more fat gain. The body won't let go of it easily because it doesn't want to die from the next stressor. The only way to make it realize stress is gone is to consistently eat a LOT of carbs every day. I thought about it the other day and I finally realized why the body doesn't store many carbs even though it's the preferred fuel source. It's genius really, on whoever designed the body (God) and simple. Ample carbs on a daily basis signifies plenty of food to the body. All it takes is ONE day of not enough carbs to cause problems. This is annoying if you're trying to get healthy, but smart on a survival basis. Making it easy to gain body fat and hard to lose it makes it hard to die from starvation. The only way to lose body fat is get alot of carbs 365 days a year and then finally you'll lose it. IF however the body stored carbs, you would rapidly expend them if you couldn't eat for a while, and then die shortly after. Fats are stored even though they are not the body's preferred fuel source precisely BECAUSE they are anti-metabolic. That way, when you have to use them, the body knows IMMEDIATELY that you're starving, and immediately dials down metabolism. So not only do you have a huge store of fuel, but the fuel when burned turns down your metabolism so it gets used up at a very slow pace. This is extremely good at keeping you alive, but horrible at keeping you healthy. Your body tends to focus on keeping you alive more than keeping you healthy unless you treat it right (i.e., lower stress and eat carbs and not fat).

Stress can be a factor sure, but eating dietary fats doesn't help.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes there can and will be bloating... But it shouldn't be continuous indefinitely. I kept gaining and gaining and gaining for 6 months. Again, dietary fat is an optional nutrient - especially when you're fat. Why should I consume dietary fat when I have 300,000 calorie worth of fat in my body already? Again, bloating (At least after 6 months still) probably means other issues - Like allergies, bad gut microbiome, parasites, ETC. Just eating through it is not gonna help in that case. And just to reiterate I DO believe in eating as much as you want - as long as it's low fat.

Dietary carbohydrate (and some protein) are the only needed nutrients because the body has a much limited store (OK the body does have a lot of protein stored, but you don't wanna be expending that =P). Carbs are stored in low quantities and must be replenished every day however plus is the body's preferred fuel source.



Naw, because I recovered my health on a High carb low fat diet once in the past. The idea that the body needs dietary fat to be healthy is one of the biggest myths of all time. At one of the healthiest points in my life I was eating a zero fat diet. Why did I not just do that again you ask? Good question. I don't even have the answer to it LOL. Other than, I got confused by new research on saturated fats and whatnot and BTW the body can convert any carbs into fats that it needs to anyways. Again, a quick thought experiment verifies this -- Why would the body store hundreds of thousands of calories of body fat and then require you to eat more? Answer - it doesn't. Once you're down to a lot less body fat, OK sure, you might need to eat some - as I believe there is research to suggest that when body fat starts getting TOO low it might have hormonal effects (negatively) and there is such a thing as TOO low estrogen. When you think about it, the body IS actually REALLY GOOD AT SURVIVING. Body fat is extremely anti-metabolic and pro-estrogen. This lowers your metabolism and promotes more fat gain. The body won't let go of it easily because it doesn't want to die from the next stressor. The only way to make it realize stress is gone is to consistently eat a LOT of carbs every day. I thought about it the other day and I finally realized why the body doesn't store many carbs even though it's the preferred fuel source. It's genius really, on whoever designed the body (God) and simple. Ample carbs on a daily basis signifies plenty of food to the body. All it takes is ONE day of not enough carbs to cause problems. This is annoying if you're trying to get healthy, but smart on a survival basis. Making it easy to gain body fat and hard to lose it makes it hard to die from starvation. The only way to lose body fat is get alot of carbs 365 days a year and then finally you'll lose it. IF however the body stored carbs, you would rapidly expend them if you couldn't eat for a while, and then die shortly after. Fats are stored even though they are not the body's preferred fuel source precisely BECAUSE they are anti-metabolic. That way, when you have to use them, the body knows IMMEDIATELY that you're starving, and immediately dials down metabolism. So not only do you have a huge store of fuel, but the fuel when burned turns down your metabolism so it gets used up at a very slow pace. This is extremely good at keeping you alive, but horrible at keeping you healthy. Your body tends to focus on keeping you alive more than keeping you healthy unless you treat it right (i.e., lower stress and eat carbs and not fat).

Stress can be a factor sure, but eating dietary fats doesn't help.

I agree, the reason it's storing the fat is for perceived famine. But when I was underweight and chronically stressed, haagen dazs saved my life. Now I can eat a higher carb diet and not feel like I have to have ice cream, but I will likely never go high carb low fat for long periods of time unless I have to. At this point I don't, I'm maybe 5-10 lbs over my ideal weight. Let us know how this experiment goes as that will prove your theory.

 

[Cirion]

I agree, the reason it's storing the fat is for perceived famine. But when I was underweight and chronically stressed, haagen dazs saved my life. Now I can eat a higher carb diet and not feel like I have to have ice cream, but I will likely never go high carb low fat for long periods of time unless I have to. At this point I don't, I'm maybe 5-10 lbs over my ideal weight. Let us know how this experiment goes as that will prove your theory.

Yeah if you're underweight I can absolutely see how some dietary fat can be beneficial. Too low body fat is not healthy just like too high body fat is not healthy.

You're probably fine, 5-10 lb above target is nothing. I would be happy if I was only 5-10 lb above target =P I'm about 60-70 lb above target LOL

 

[Kelj]

Yes there can and will be bloating... But it shouldn't be continuous indefinitely. I kept gaining and gaining and gaining for 6 months. Again, dietary fat is an optional nutrient - especially when you're fat. Why should I consume dietary fat when I have 300,000 calorie worth of fat in my body already? Again, bloating (At least after 6 months still) probably means other issues - Like allergies, bad gut microbiome, parasites, ETC. Just eating through it is not gonna help in that case. And just to reiterate I DO believe in eating as much as you want - as long as it's low fat.

Dietary carbohydrate (and some protein) are the only needed nutrients because the body has a much limited store (OK the body does have a lot of protein stored, but you don't wanna be expending that =P). Carbs are stored in low quantities and must be replenished every day however plus is the body's preferred fuel source.



Naw, because I recovered my health on a High carb low fat diet once in the past. The idea that the body needs dietary fat to be healthy is one of the biggest myths of all time. At one of the healthiest points in my life I was eating a zero fat diet. Why did I not just do that again you ask? Good question. I don't even have the answer to it LOL. Other than, I got confused by new research on saturated fats and whatnot and BTW the body can convert any carbs into fats that it needs to anyways. Again, a quick thought experiment verifies this -- Why would the body store hundreds of thousands of calories of body fat and then require you to eat more? Answer - it doesn't. Once you're down to a lot less body fat, OK sure, you might need to eat some - as I believe there is research to suggest that when body fat starts getting TOO low it might have hormonal effects (negatively) and there is such a thing as TOO low estrogen. When you think about it, the body IS actually REALLY GOOD AT SURVIVING. Body fat is extremely anti-metabolic and pro-estrogen. This lowers your metabolism and promotes more fat gain. The body won't let go of it easily because it doesn't want to die from the next stressor. The only way to make it realize stress is gone is to consistently eat a LOT of carbs every day. I thought about it the other day and I finally realized why the body doesn't store many carbs even though it's the preferred fuel source. It's genius really, on whoever designed the body (God) and simple. Ample carbs on a daily basis signifies plenty of food to the body. All it takes is ONE day of not enough carbs to cause problems. This is annoying if you're trying to get healthy, but smart on a survival basis. Making it easy to gain body fat and hard to lose it makes it hard to die from starvation. The only way to lose body fat is get alot of carbs 365 days a year and then finally you'll lose it. IF however the body stored carbs, you would rapidly expend them if you couldn't eat for a while, and then die shortly after. Fats are stored even though they are not the body's preferred fuel source precisely BECAUSE they are anti-metabolic. That way, when you have to use them, the body knows IMMEDIATELY that you're starving, and immediately dials down metabolism. So not only do you have a huge store of fuel, but the fuel when burned turns down your metabolism so it gets used up at a very slow pace. This is extremely good at keeping you alive, but horrible at keeping you healthy. Your body tends to focus on keeping you alive more than keeping you healthy unless you treat it right (i.e., lower stress and eat carbs and not fat).

Stress can be a factor sure, but eating dietary fats doesn't help.

I agree with this explanation. Eating PLENTY of carbs every day is the solution to lose fat. Good job!

 

[Fractality]

At what level of carb+fat together does the randle cycle go into effect?

 

[Cirion]

At what level of carb+fat together does the randle cycle go into effect?

A good question... the answer is it depends... that's kind of the cop-out answer I know, but it's true. A better functioning metabolism might be able to tolerate a meal with half of the calories from fat and the other half from carbs, whereas someone who is sick might start to react negatively with a 1:10 ratio, or even sooner. The answer seems to be that a few berries with some fat is generally probably safe though.

Probably the simple answer is... the leaner you are, the more you can tolerate mixing fats from carbs (Maybe). I say maybe because I think that's not even always true, because you can be lean and have insulin resistance, in which case, mixing fats and carbs won't be doing you any favors. So the better answer is probably it depends on how insulin sensitive you are, I suppose. Who knows. It's complex, all I know is if you're unhealthy, it seems to hurt you worse. If you're fat and unhealthy, it seems to hurt you worse still. And even at that, just because you can mix fats with carbs and seemingly tolerate, doesn't mean you should. I am still forming an opinion on whether dietary fat is ever needed, even if you're lean and healthy, but I currently feel some are probably helpful IF you are lean and healthy, but not in very large amounts because carbs are still the preferred fuel source for the body and the dietary fat just serves to keep you from going too low bodyfat.

I am sure whether or not the meal is high or low in PUFA vs. SFA makes a difference as well, but SFA will still trigger problems, as I found out first hand.

 

[Dotdash]

The writings of Adele Davis are almost identical to RP thoughts on foods that are good for the body. Liver everyday and a nonchalant attitude on her part towards PUFA use are the major differences. She too says starch should be kept to a minimum. Mostly needed if a person requires extra calories. Both nutritionist writers say if something doesn't work for you ----- don't do it. It seems the problems arise individually when we as students of their knowledge do not know what a substance is supposed to do - what it is supposed to feel like when it's working favorably vs unfavorably. We either charge forward to our demise or stop and declare the author is incorrect in teaching. Neither way is helpful. Self Experimentation remains the only way to personally know. What is helpful to me in both of these authors is their wide array of knowledge through both research, comparing notes with others such as themselves, and experimentation results of clients and themselves. In everything RP has said or written he says "Have you tried such and such?" He never says "Try such and such and it will be exactly what you need."

 

[mayweatherking]

@Kelj

I received some coaching from a well known person who used to post here. As much as I am annoyed that I feel like he caused my weight gain, I'm not gonna name names. But he did at least get me over the fear of consuming a lot of calories I guess.

The problem is that for myself and many with metabolism problems, we have lost our sense of what foods help and what don't or what we need. If I knew that I'd be eating them. Fatty foods seem helpful in the short time since I often temporarily feel good after eating ice cream, and then after feel awful and I put all of the fat I eat towards body fat, so I can't use taste as a gauge. Tasting good is not necessarily equal to what we need for health. I could eat chocolate ice cream all day. My sense of being able to determine what is good for me is just completely broken. This is the case for a lot of other people as well. Ice cream in particular bloats me up like no other food and I am convinced it is one of the foods that caused almost all my body fat gain.

I am 280 lbs now, there is no way anyone can tell me this is a healthy weight. I agree that the ideal weight is probably higher than most think but not that high. I am clearly fat with a very pudgy stomach and there is no way the body did this in an attempt to make me healthy, especially seeing as how the weight was coming on at an endless 5-10 lb a week at times, which suggests bloat which is not a healthy form of weight gain because this excess water gain means way too much estrogen etc. Bloating is in no way healthy and means you are not absorbing food correctly. I was once around 200 and fairly lean and eating fat liberally just made me super fat. Suggesting to eat fat liberally is just a criminal mistake and I hope no one else makes this mistake like I did. Just telling people to eat through 100 lb of weight gain is horrible advice (not saying you're saying this specifically, but my coach did essentially). 20 lbs? OK... sure. But once it starts to creep beyond that, there is something wrong. All this was the result of NOT counting calories and just eating whatever. I've only managed the weight gain since dropping dietary fat (although I still don't really count calories, I just count fats mostly). The thing is that a hypothyroid body needs CARBS not FATS. CARBS restore a glucose metabolism, CO2, etc etc. Fats at best do little to nothing, unless it is saturated fats and even then, they can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism.

u didnt mention protein once, i think if you get less than 100 grams of protein in a day, your estrogen will go up, then all that evil sugarz get converted into fat

 

[Cirion]

u didnt mention protein once, i think if you get less than 100 grams of protein in a day, your estrogen will go up, then all that evil sugarz get converted into fat

The problems with high protein are worse in my experience.

Anyway to answer your question, I was actually eating very high protein 200-250 gram a day when all that weight gained occurred. Almost no one gets less than 100 gram (I briefly did when trying my vegan experiment, now I'm settled in around 120 gram a day seems to be the sweet spot).

I may sound a little triggered (I guess I am) but I'm burned out on people beating the drum of sugar now because it just didn't work for me. Carbs absolutely, but not sugar. At least not as the sole carb source.

Though, to be fair, I would say that high fat is worse than high protein probably. That's the worst thing that gets promoted around here IMO. The randle cycle is to be avoided at all costs when you're sick.

 

[lampofred]

The problems with high protein are worse in my experience.

Anyway to answer your question, I was actually eating very high protein 200-250 gram a day when all that weight gained occurred. Almost no one gets less than 100 gram (I briefly did when trying my vegan experiment, now I'm settled in around 120 gram a day seems to be the sweet spot).

I may sound a little triggered (I guess I am) but I'm burned out on people beating the drum of sugar now because it just didn't work for me. Carbs absolutely, but not sugar. At least not as the sole carb source.

Though, to be fair, I would say that high fat is worse than high protein probably. That's the worst thing that gets promoted around here IMO. The randle cycle is to be avoided at all costs when you're sick.

Yeah am starting to realize high fat and high protein will ruin you if your thyroid function isn't great/prolactin isn't low.

OJ is really the best food for people who need to get healthier like me...

 

[Cirion]

Yeah am starting to realize high fat and high protein will ruin you if your thyroid function isn't great/prolactin isn't low.

OJ is really the best food for people who need to get healthier like me...

I just think fat in particular is grossly over-rated, *especially* if you're overweight already. I got into a debate with my mom the other evening (she is a health nut too) about how I now believe fat is an optional macro, at least if you're fat (Lest anyone take my comment out of context to say fat is never needed), since you have a huge store of it already. plus, any minimal fat intake that truly is "necessary" can be made via your big pool of carb intake anyway... carbs on the other hand, must be replenished pretty much on a daily basis.

 

[Runenight201]

Yeah am starting to realize high fat and high protein will ruin you if your thyroid function isn't great/prolactin isn't low.

OJ is really the best food for people who need to get healthier like me...

OJ is cool and all but try a frozen berry based fruit smoothie with apple/grape juice. This makes up the bulk of my fruit consumption. Sometimes I’ll have some orange juice or some sweet mandarins, but most of the time I find myself craving my fruit smoothie. I’ll also cut the berries with a little frozen mango. I was putting skim milk in here but I realized it was doing me harm after I got a bad stomach ache after playing an intense game of soccer. I did play very well, kudos to the milk, but the intense activity + skim milk did cause some problems that night. I’m currently experimenting with a vanilla ice cream, whole goat milk, and coffee mixture which gives me insaaane mood lifts, energy, and strength.

 

[Kray]

I think he's a brilliant thinker and came up with loads of incredibly valuable stuff, but no one person is EVER going to have all the answers. I'm new ish to his work, and think he has valuable contributions, especially historically, but some of what he's said is way off the mark.

In this day and age, with the massive amount of information freely available on the internet, thought leaders, experts, etc are all going to be proved wrong in the majority of cases. The amount of things he got right in a time when this knowledge WASN'T freely available, is rather amazing.

But i think if anything the lesson is to think independently and challenge ideas, rather than to just parrot his own views.

With that said - my major complaint is his views on estrogen.

I think like anything, if it rises out of balance, the effect will be negative. But it's going to be a completely different story in females vs males, a completely different story with taking estrogenic compounds orally (WHI study) and transdermal bioidentical estradiol, completely different story of aromatisation of circulating testosterone to circulating estrogens vs aromatisation in the tissue... I could go on.

I will disclose my bias - I was prescribed an aromatase inhibitor by an endo who didn't have a clue, and it basically ruined my life. Aged my appearance greatly, damaged my nervous system and vascular and skeletal system. Through years of health research almost ALL of my health problems can be traced to a lack of estrogen.

Estradiol appears to be a hormone that circulates in youth to signal that the body is still young and reproducing. In women, supplemental transdermal estradiol at menopause lowers all cause mortality by 40%, decreases cardiovascular disease, increases mitochondrial function, increases telomere length, etc. Google Dr Anne Hathaway for her research on this.

Recent data in older MEN shows that the ONLY sex steroid that is associated with lower biological age measured via telomeres... is estradiol. The higher the estradiol, the younger they appear to be. Many, many of the beneficial functions of circulating testosterone appear to be due to it being converted (aromatised) in the tissue.

Individuals taking aromatase inhibitors experience cognitive decline, increased neurological problems, osteoporosis and arthritis, cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disease, and more. W0men who lose their ovaries but don't supplement with estrogen have a more than double risk of alzheimers and dementia.

Estradiol is a tryptophan dioxygenase (TDO) inhibitor. TDO inhibition is the new target for neurodegenerative and seems very promising.

Many people, especially body builders, are ruining their health by blocking estrogen. It's a growing problem in the US. Google Dr Kominiarek talking about this, people coming in with osteoporosis and ruined metabolism and vascular function. All for what? An overly simplistic idea about it being only important for women.

Hmm... sorry for the hijack! I should start my own thread on this probably. I would like to understand Rays views on estrogen more, but what I read of it was at least ten years old, and would seem pretty out of date considering the new research.

 

[Kray]

Goobz- interesting points on estradiol. I took the transdermal for some time, about 10 years ago now. From your information, would it be something to consider reintroducing for a 60+, postmenopausal woman?

 

[ShotTrue]

It it means anything Cirion, my husband gained a significant amount of weight too, but I don't blame the Peat diet. He was very thin and had a very active job he was undereating for sure for many years. Then he got a desk job with more responsibility and the weight just piled on. He eats pretty good now and it's near impossible to lose the belly fat. Sure he has quite a few cheat days, but even on the days he's active working out and eating good he doesn't lose much weight. I think the real cause is desk jobs plus stress. I also gained belly fat after my stress decreased majorly. I was thin while going through the stress.

Desk jobs don't make you fat if you exercise after work, sounds like impaired metabolism

 

[ShotTrue]

The problems with high protein are worse in my experience.

Anyway to answer your question, I was actually eating very high protein 200-250 gram a day when all that weight gained occurred. Almost no one gets less than 100 gram (I briefly did when trying my vegan experiment, now I'm settled in around 120 gram a day seems to be the sweet spot).

I may sound a little triggered (I guess I am) but I'm burned out on people beating the drum of sugar now because it just didn't work for me. Carbs absolutely, but not sugar. At least not as the sole carb source.

Though, to be fair, I would say that high fat is worse than high protein probably. That's the worst thing that gets promoted around here IMO. The randle cycle is to be avoided at all costs when you're sick.

that a lot of protein, porbably unnecessary or hard to digest. Im sure sugar has an impact on insulin that can lead to fat deposition