Strength And Libido Quest

[haidut]

Also I have to add that my endo said that T reacts slowly to changes, and it may take even 2 or 3 months to see significant changes in levels. According him, improving my diet could have effects

I could perform that blood test. Sadly, there's no previous result to compare with, so: would it be useful?
Also, Endo said total T reacts slowly, even taking 2 or 3 months to see results from diet changes

I think knowing SHBG would help but it is probably not crucial at this point. Maybe the endo is right and it takes a few months for total T to equilibrate and reflect dietary changes.

 

[Makrosky]

I think knowing SHBG would help but it is probably not crucial at this point. Maybe the endo is right and it takes a few months for total T to equilibrate and reflect dietary changes.

haidut,

Maybe a stupid question but ... If serum hormone levels are not the same as tissue levels (better measured in saliva)... where the hell are those hormones? Floating in the blood ? Like if you donate blood you reduce immediately all the ammounts of serum hormones ? I don't get it.

 

[haidut]

haidut,

Maybe a stupid question but ... If serum hormone levels are not the same as tissue levels (better measured in saliva)... where the hell are those hormones? Floating in the blood ? Like if you donate blood you reduce immediately all the ammounts of serum hormones ? I don't get it.

Not sure I understand your question. What do you mean where are they? Most of the steroids are in tissues to start with, as it is tissues that need them, not the blood. The blood is just a transport mechanism. Serum levels in males reflect mostly gonadal (for T and E) and adrenal (DHEA, androstenedione) production. But many other tissues aside from gonads/adrenals can make their own steroids from cholesterol, so just because you have a certain level in your blood does not reflect what is in the tissues. The brain and skin are good examples of organs that can produce a lot more steroids that toe gonads/adrenals can, provided they have the needed precursors. For example, in menopausal women serum estradiol is low due to ovarian "failure" but tissue levels are high as most tissues can produce estrogen (estrone) locally (especially fat tissue) and if there is no progesterone to oppose all that estrogen then the net systemic effect is VERY estrogenic despite low serum levels of estrogens.

 

[vulture]

@vulture, out of curiosity, what is your endo MD proposed solution when you consult him ?

I was refered to him for "low libido" and high cortisol. He asked me to stop Pansteron for 3 weeks and performing LH and FSH blood tests. Also recommended a semen analysis (optional). Prescribed also Zinc or Zinc+Mg+Calcium supplement, along with Vit E, Vit C. Also stated that libido is highly influenced by stress. Measured testes and said their volume is normal. He didn't say much about diet. Also recommended to take a look at some hair and nails supplements on amazon because they usually have most of the vitamins and minerals that are needed to produce T. I rather buying Zinc Gluconate, also bought Niacinamide and Aspirin to keep experimenting.

I have no doubt that morning woods and libido is higher since Peating and Pansterone, that's for sure. How much comes from Peating and how much from Pansterone alone? hard to tell..but using Pansterone and Peating was normal for me to wake up with a boner. Before Peating that was strange

 

[Makrosky]

Not sure I understand your question. What do you mean where are they? Most of the steroids are in tissues to start with, as it is tissues that need them, not the blood. The blood is just a transport mechanism. Serum levels in males reflect mostly gonadal (for T and E) and adrenal (DHEA, androstenedione) production. But many other tissues aside from gonads/adrenals can make their own steroids from cholesterol, so just because you have a certain level in your blood does not reflect what is in the tissues. The brain and skin are good examples of organs that can produce a lot more steroids that toe gonads/adrenals can, provided they have the needed precursors. For example, in menopausal women serum estradiol is low due to ovarian "failure" but tissue levels are high as most tissues can produce estrogen (estrone) locally (especially fat tissue) and if there is no progesterone to oppose all that estrogen then the net systemic effect is VERY estrogenic despite low serum levels of estrogens.

Ok thanks haidut! So in my particular case which I have really low body fat, I guess all that estrone might be accumulating in liver and tissues right?

 

[haidut]

Ok thanks haidut! So in my particular case which I have really low body fat, I guess all that estrone might be accumulating in liver and tissues right?

Yes, liver, brain, subcutaneous fat and other organs which have high concentration of fat.

 

[Wagner83]

Yes, liver, brain, subcutaneous fat and other organs which have high concentration of fat.

Since he shed fat and tissue levels may be different from blood levels, wouldn't it be possible that estrone in the serum would be temporarily higher while it is removed from the tissues (fat shedding, androgenicity from dhea/k2 etc..)?

 

[Makrosky]

Yes, liver, brain, subcutaneous fat and other organs which have high concentration of fat.

Thanks haidut, I'm learning a lot :) :) :)

Then the idea is to pull it out from tissues. For the fat, it's easy : cut PUFA, lose weight. For the liver : defat it with caffeine, K2, etc.

But for the brain ???? How do you pull it out ?

 

[Makrosky]

Since he shed fat and tissue levels may be different from blood levels, wouldn't it be possible that estrone in the serum would be temporarily higher while it is removed from the tissues (fat shedding, androgenicity from dhea/k2 etc..)?

Good point. Maybe.

 

[haidut]

Thanks haidut, I'm learning a lot :) :) :)

Then the idea is to pull it out from tissues. For the fat, it's easy : cut PUFA, lose weight. For the liver : defat it with caffeine, K2, etc.

But for the brain ???? How do you pull it out ?

Progesterone, DHT, and other things that antagonize the estrogen at the "receptor"level of can degrade that recetor (progesterone, caffeine). Keeping stress low keeps aromatase activity low so less estrogen will be produced to start with.

 

[vulture]

Blood Test Nov 20 2017
================================
FSH 0.8 mUI/mL (2.0 to 10.0)
LH 1.2 mUI/mL (0.7 to 7.4)
Total Testosterone 2.0 ng/mL (2.4 to 12.0)

Stopped Pansterone for about 2 or 3 weeks to perform this test. Restarted. I had some slight flu-like symptomps at the moment of the test.

 

[vulture]

I think I got Giardia, so, I've been about a week and some days with intermitent diarrhea, yellow colored. I'm using garlic against it.

2 Days ago I started using 11-Keto DHT in combination with Pansterone. 2 drops of 11-Keto DHT each 36 hours and 4 drops of pansterone (2 AM, 2 PM).
Today I feel like if I have more appetite, but also I feel more aggressive and easier to get pissed off, specially when I'm hungry.

 

[Madato]

Not sure I understand your question. What do you mean where are they? Most of the steroids are in tissues to start with, as it is tissues that need them, not the blood. The blood is just a transport mechanism. Serum levels in males reflect mostly gonadal (for T and E) and adrenal (DHEA, androstenedione) production. But many other tissues aside from gonads/adrenals can make their own steroids from cholesterol, so just because you have a certain level in your blood does not reflect what is in the tissues. The brain and skin are good examples of organs that can produce a lot more steroids that toe gonads/adrenals can, provided they have the needed precursors. For example, in menopausal women serum estradiol is low due to ovarian "failure" but tissue levels are high as most tissues can produce estrogen (estrone) locally (especially fat tissue) and if there is no progesterone to oppose all that estrogen then the net systemic effect is VERY estrogenic despite low serum levels of estrogens.

Do you know how to increase androgen activity in tissues when it’s obviously low in spite of normal circulating blood hormone levels?

 

[haidut]

Do you know how to increase androgen activity in tissues when it’s obviously low in spite of normal circulating blood hormone levels?

Saturated fats, especially caprylic acid and some of the methylated esters have been shown to increase both androgen receptor density and sensitivity. Look at the studies posted in the Gonadin thread.

 

[Jsaute21]

Well, pansterone use seems to have raised free T as it did in @Makrosky. Estrogen went down a bit. Total T is still higher after Pansterone than it was before this experiment started and Pansterone was used. DHT was low after Pansterone but it was not tested before that so we don't know what it was before. If this person has some sort of 5-AR issue then pansterone may not help much...

What would improve 5-AR then? I assume combining Androsterone or KDHT with Pansterone, caffeine, adequate good carbohydrate intake, sorghum, etc. Any other sure fire ways of boosting 5-AR?

 

[haidut]

What would improve 5-AR then? I assume combining Androsterone or KDHT with Pansterone, caffeine, adequate good carbohydrate intake, sorghum, etc. Any other sure fire ways of boosting 5-AR?

All of those, plus saturated fats. Also, avoiding synthetic estrogens like BPA and/or excessive alcohol or marijuana use as they are all known to reduce DHT levels.

 

[vulture]

Great info Haidut. That's basically what I'm trying here: avoiding BPA, drinking lots of coffee, eating as often as possible and adding a tbsp of EVCO with foods, specially ones that are higher in PUFA.
===============================================================================
Well, about PANSTERONE + 11-KETO DHT COMBO (4 drops + 3 drops a day)
Rat seems not to be feeling something radical, still subtle. Pulse seems higher seems 11-Keto DHT, he's hungrier, seems to need more food and got the impression that the facial hair is growing a bit faster.

I'm thinking about performing a DHT bloodtest but I'm not sure how much shall I wait in order for it to fully reflect new levels @haidut

===============================================================================
Two new factors in my rats lifestyle (I'd appreciate insights):
OJ is giving him diarrhea. Before Peating OJ on empty stomach meant diarrhea, now, it's not rare to get diarrhea even intaking OJ with solid foods. Diarrhea is yellowish, waterly, happens about 30 to 90 minutes after OJ intake. Test revealed: moderate mucus, ph 8.0, alcaline reaction, no blood, liquid, heterogeneous. No bacteria detected.
I was thinking about Giardiasis. If my theory is right, rat should be able to intake OJ in a few weeks normally. I also read that this could be due some bacterial overgrowth messing with the gut flora.

Food is become more scarce in rats environment, combined with OJ Diarrhea rat is eating Bread and Pasta, along with rice and potatoes and some fruits (no orange). Rat is about to move to a environment with food abundance in about two weeks.

 

[haidut]

Great info Haidut. That's basically what I'm trying here: avoiding BPA, drinking lots of coffee, eating as often as possible and adding a tbsp of EVCO with foods, specially ones that are higher in PUFA.
===============================================================================
Well, about PANSTERONE + 11-KETO DHT COMBO (4 drops + 3 drops a day)
Rat seems not to be feeling something radical, still subtle. Pulse seems higher seems 11-Keto DHT, he's hungrier, seems to need more food and got the impression that the facial hair is growing a bit faster.

I'm thinking about performing a DHT bloodtest but I'm not sure how much shall I wait in order for it to fully reflect new levels @haidut

===============================================================================
Two new factors in my rats lifestyle (I'd appreciate insights):
OJ is giving him diarrhea. Before Peating OJ on empty stomach meant diarrhea, now, it's not rare to get diarrhea even intaking OJ with solid foods. Diarrhea is yellowish, waterly, happens about 30 to 90 minutes after OJ intake. Test revealed: moderate mucus, ph 8.0, alcaline reaction, no blood, liquid, heterogeneous. No bacteria detected.
I was thinking about Giardiasis. If my theory is right, rat should be able to intake OJ in a few weeks normally. I also read that this could be due some bacterial overgrowth messing with the gut flora.

Food is become more scarce in rats environment, combined with OJ Diarrhea rat is eating Bread and Pasta, along with rice and potatoes and some fruits (no orange). Rat is about to move to a environment with food abundance in about two weeks.

The 11-keto DHT probably won't raise DHT levels as it is a different steroid that does not interconvert into DHT. But if you use Pansterone on its own for 2 weeks there may be a rise in blood levels of DHT and especially in DHT metabolites, which most doctors do not test for. I think 3a-androstanediol glucuronide is the most reliable biomarker of tissue DHT levels. User @Wagner83 can confirm that last part.

 

[vulture]

The 11-keto DHT probably won't raise DHT levels as it is a different steroid that does not interconvert into DHT. But if you use Pansterone on its own for 2 weeks there may be a rise in blood levels of DHT and especially in DHT metabolites, which most doctors do not test for. I think 3a-androstanediol glucuronide is the most reliable biomarker of tissue DHT levels. User @Wagner83 can confirm that last part.

Does the same applies to Androsterone?

 

[haidut]

Does the same applies to Androsterone?

No, androsterone is a direct precursor to DHT so it should have an effect on its levels. It is all explained in the respective threads, so I suggest you go through them.