Strength And Libido Quest

[vulture]

So, which test results were before Pansterone and which ones are after Pansterone? Also, doing the fasting would skew the results drastically, with or without Pansterone. I would go for regular diet and then just do a pre/post Pansterone tests.

Haidut, the last results are 3 weeks after Peating and BEFORE starting Pansterone: reduced cortisol, increased estradiol so far. I'm waiting for T levels of that day, also (they take 3 to 5 days extra). First Blood Tests are BEFORE 4 day water fasting, last ones are AFTER: 4 days water fast, then 3 weeks Peating (.PDF attatched resumes most of what I did, specially vitamins and supplements). Pansterone started just 2 days ago and maybe in 3 or 4 weeks I'll make blood tests again to see what happend with it. BTW, Lab didn't have DHT test...neither ordered DHEA-S because of short budget (had to make some extra blood tests for my doc that's seeing if kidneys are fine)
BTW, using 800 IU of alphatocopherol Vit E, 2 weeks on coffee, Vit B complex and taking mushrooms, celery, and Estradiol still so high? damn...kinda crappy. How much of it could be because of the water fasting? how much could it takes for the body to "react" to Peating and lower Estradiol? This way I know ideal blood tests frequency

Thanks

 

[vulture]

This is the Vitamin B complex I'm taking, two pills
One pill contains:
Vitamina B12 (Cianocobalamine) …………. 5.000 mcg
Vitamina B1 (Tiamine Clorhidrate)………… 100 mg
Vitamina B6 (Piridoxine clorhidrate)………. 100 mg

I toke 1 AM 1 PM. Reduced to 1 a day (budget)
Vitamina B12 (Cianocobalamine) …………. 10.000 mcg
Vitamina B1 (Tiamine Clorhidrate)………… 200 mg
Vitamina B6 (Piridoxine clorhidrate)………. 200 mg

Is this ok or does it lacks or haves excess of any one? Purpose of this vitamin is mainly estradiol reduction

 

[vulture]

I'm inquiring about something
Estradiol 35 pg/mL and prolactine 5.2 mlU/L, after 4 days water fast + 3 weeks Peating (being even leaner, stronger and with more morning woods): Estradiol 47 and prolactin 5.2. Same prolactin, a lot more E2 (34%) and even under 800 IU of Vit E (aplha tocopherols), coffee, etc...

I'm wondering: if Estradiol is rising but not prolactin, is there a chance that this is happening?
"I have seen the opposite happen actually - i.e. lower dose progesterone convert into androgens through the androstenedione pathway. Animal studies show progesterone can increase even DHT. Remember, taking progesterone and getting higher blood levels of estrogen means not higher but LOWER estrogen in tissues. The true test would be taking low dose progesterone and measuring blood prolactin. If systemic estrogenic activity is higher then prolactin would be higher as well. However, all the studies I have seen with all kinds of progesterone doses show that prolactin goes down. So, it is highly unlikley that progesterone increase estrogen in lower doses."
- Haidut

 

[vulture]

You are going at it the wrong way.
Trying to boost nitric oxide will give you erections in the short term but will damage you overall.
The reason for your strong libido post op was because after the surgery there was a local inflammatory response.
Inflammation triggers nitric oxide release which causes vasodilation which leads to strong erections.

The reason you are not getting erections right now is because you are undernourished and overstressed.
Your body has shifted hormones away from androgens and is applying the emergency break.
Just look at your T and your Estrogen.
Why are you even lifting right now. You are destroying yourself. Recover first and then train.

Also if you start getting cold sores, tonsillitis or other herpes outbreaks it means you have overdosed on arginine/citrulline.

@opiath
What you said about NO, add what Peat says and this: Preliminary report on nitric oxide‐mediated oxidative damage in adolescent varicocele | Human Reproduction | Oxford Academic
I'm stopping L-Citrulline intake, reporting also in a few days how vascularity looks.

 

[vulture]

@Constatine or @charlie I'm not sure think you are mod here, I can't edit my previous posts, and I think it's a good idea because some blood tests have a longer processing time than other, I need to add T levels to a previous post and keep things ordered. Must be a permissions problem. Thanks for your help.

22-09-2017 - Testosterone levels before Pansterone 5.3 ng/mL. Mid-August reading was 2,4 ng/mL, that's more than twice in just about a month, but Estradiol went from 35 to 47 pg/mL, but keeping Prolactine at 5.2 mIU/L

Libido has improved noticeably, as energy levels. Also leaner than ever. Sometimes I feel like I wanna get into a fight hahaha before using Pansterone my morning woods were re-appearing after months (or more than year?), but as soon as I started it, I would wake up with a noticeably firmer wood, sometimes lasting a few minutes. So far, change seems really great for me. Temps and pulse are, after breakfast, noticeably higher. Usually about 70-80 ppm and 37ºC, sometimes even between 80-90 ppm.

 

[Constatine]

@Constatine or @charlie I'm not sure think you are mod here, I can't edit my previous posts, and I think it's a good idea because some blood tests have a longer processing time than other, I need to add T levels to a previous post and keep things ordered. Must be a permissions problem. Thanks for your help.

22-09-2017 - Testosterone levels before Pansterone 5.3 ng/mL. Mid-August reading was 2,4 ng/mL, that's more than twice in just about a month, but Estradiol went from 35 to 47 pg/mL, but keeping Prolactine at 5.2 mIU/L

Libido has improved noticeably, as energy levels. Also leaner than ever. Sometimes I feel like I wanna get into a fight hahaha before using Pansterone my morning woods were re-appearing after months (or more than year?), but as soon as I started it, I would wake up with a noticeably firmer wood, sometimes lasting a few minutes. So far, change seems really great for me. Temps and pulse are, after breakfast, noticeably higher. Usually about 70-80 ppm and 37ºC, sometimes even between 80-90 ppm.

I'm not a mod but Charlie is.

 

[vulture]

My rat's newest blood test ( @haidut signal )
26-09-2017 - DHEA-S 327.2 µg/dL (above "reference range") - I have no previous ones for this
Started taking Pansterone at 23-09-2017, 4 drops a day, 2 AM and 2 PM on rat's scrotum. Was it low and it's now near "high" range? Kinda hard to tell because there was not a previous test and I'm far from an expert on the subject...you might have more experience on this matter. I'm also wondering if it could be useful to increase dosage but maybe it's better to wait for the next T, E2, Prolactin tests. I'm not sure how useful could it be to repeat DHEA-S and make a DHT test...I'm starting to mind my budget on blood tests. Ideally I was going to perform those tests 2 weeks after starting Pansterone because you said DHEA takes about 2 weeks to "fill" rats tissues and then starts get into serum (not sure about this last thing), anyway, maybe 3 weeks could be better. I would appreciate your thoughts about this matter because I don't want to go too high and start getting aromatization.

Remember that my goal is to optimize rats androgen levels. I also got some Aspirin, Cypro to start testing, but didn't use none of this to keep the Pansteronic effect as the main variable involved (with also Peat diet introduction) and I'm thinking about using Androsterone but I think it would be better to check for DHT levels first.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I made a huge mistake relying on googles search and I was taking about 120 g of coffee a day instead of 30 g (current dosage), so caffein dosage was way over 1.000 mg instead of about 300 mg (I'm trying to be around 150-300 mg). That overdosage happend from Sept 06 to Oct 02. I'm still feeling way better than before, but maybe I was feeling a bit better on more caffein hahaha

 

[haidut]

My rat's newest blood test ( @haidut signal )
26-09-2017 - DHEA-S 327.2 µg/dL (above "reference range") - I have no previous ones for this
Started taking Pansterone at 23-09-2017, 4 drops a day, 2 AM and 2 PM on rat's scrotum. Was it low and it's now near "high" range? Kinda hard to tell because there was not a previous test and I'm far from an expert on the subject...you might have more experience on this matter. I'm also wondering if it could be useful to increase dosage but maybe it's better to wait for the next T, E2, Prolactin tests. I'm not sure how useful could it be to repeat DHEA-S and make a DHT test...I'm starting to mind my budget on blood tests. Ideally I was going to perform those tests 2 weeks after starting Pansterone because you said DHEA takes about 2 weeks to "fill" rats tissues and then starts get into serum (not sure about this last thing), anyway, maybe 3 weeks could be better. I would appreciate your thoughts about this matter because I don't want to go too high and start getting aromatization.

Remember that my goal is to optimize rats androgen levels. I also got some Aspirin, Cypro to start testing, but didn't use none of this to keep the Pansteronic effect as the main variable involved (with also Peat diet introduction) and I'm thinking about using Androsterone but I think it would be better to check for DHT levels first.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I made a huge mistake relying on googles search and I was taking about 120 g of coffee a day instead of 30 g (current dosage), so caffein dosage was way over 1.000 mg instead of about 300 mg (I'm trying to be around 150-300 mg). That overdosage happend from Sept 06 to Oct 02. I'm still feeling way better than before, but maybe I was feeling a bit better on more caffein hahaha

Interesting, thanks for sharing! Is this the first time you measured DHEA, ever?

 

[vulture]

Interesting, thanks for sharing! Is this the first time you measured DHEA, ever?

ever

 

[vulture]

@haidut
Administered 2 drops AM 2 drops PM to rat (always scrotum) from 23-09-2017 to 10-10-2017 (about 17 days) and kept Peating
New Blood Tests:
Estradiol 23 pg/ml (down a bit)
Prolactin 10 ng/ml (different units than previous tests but seems to be higher, significantly)
Testosterone 3.60 ng/ml (lower)
Free Testosterone 15 pg/ml (twice higher)
DHEA-S 274.1 ug/dL (a bit less than previous tests)
DHT 8.0 pg/dL (extremely low - first time I measure this)
Cortisol 27.3 ug/dL (higher - blood draw was about 15-20 min later and I was a bit stressed about delay)

It's a mixed result, less estradiol but more prolactin, a lot more free testosterone but less total testosterone...after blood tests I doubled Pansterone dosage and didn't feel specially different. I think it's worth trying Pansterone + Androsterone combo. I also attatched the pulse and temperature log, it could be useful.

 

[haidut]

@haidut
Administered 2 drops AM 2 drops PM to rat (always scrotum) from 23-09-2017 to 10-10-2017 (about 17 days) and kept Peating
New Blood Tests:
Estradiol 23 pg/ml (down a bit)
Prolactin 10 ng/ml (different units than previous tests but seems to be higher, significantly)
Testosterone 3.60 ng/ml (lower)
Free Testosterone 15 pg/ml (twice higher)
DHEA-S 274.1 ug/dL (a bit less than previous tests)
DHT 8.0 pg/dL (extremely low - first time I measure this)
Cortisol 27.3 ug/dL (higher - blood draw was about 15-20 min later and I was a bit stressed about delay)

It's a mixed result, less estradiol but more prolactin, a lot more free testosterone but less total testosterone...after blood tests I doubled Pansterone dosage and didn't feel specially different. I think it's worth trying Pansterone + Androsterone combo. I also attatched the pulse and temperature log, it could be useful.

Can you also post your previous results in the same post so we can compare easily? DHEA was shown to lower SHBG in males so this could explain the high free T. Prolactin at 10 is not high even though ideally it should be in the 3-7 range.

 

[vulture]

Can you also post your previous results in the same post so we can compare easily? DHEA was shown to lower SHBG in males so this could explain the high free T. Prolactin at 10 is not high even though ideally it should be in the 3-7 range.

-BEFORE FASTING (4 DAYS WATER FAST)-
================================================================================
Mid-August 2.017 Blood Tests (start):
Testosterone 2,4 ng/mL
Free Testosterone 7,5 pg/mL
Cortisol 08:00 16,4 ng/mL
TSH 0,9 mlU/L
T3 soon
T4 6,9 ug/dL
Free T4 1,31 ng/dL
Prolactine 5,2 mlU/L
Estradiol 35 pg/mL

Triglicerides 32 mg/dL
Cholesterol 212 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 62 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol 145 mg/dL
VLDL Cholesterol 5 mg/dL

-22-09-2017 - AFTER 4 DAYS WATER FASTING, THEN 3 WEEKS OF PEATING-
================================================================================
Eritrocites 5.37 10^6/uL (4.5 to 5.5)
Hemoglobine 15.8 g/dL (13 to 18)
Hematocrite 47.8 % (42 to 52)
Mean Corpuscular Volume 89 fL
Mean Corpuscular Hb 29.4 pg (27 to 31)
Mean Corpuscular Volume Concentration 33.1 g/dL (32 to 36)
RDW 13.1 % (11.5 to 14.5)
Leucocites 4.53 10^3/uL (4 to 10)
Neutrofiles 45% (55 to 70) LOW
Linfocintes 46% (17 to 45) slightly high
Monocites 7.5% (0 to 10)
Eosinofiles 1,1 % (0 to 4)
Basofiles 9.5 fL (6 to 11)

Glicemia 97 mg/dL (70 to 110)
BUN 18 mg/dL (7 to 25)
Creatinine 0.9 mg/dL (0.4 to 1.4)
Oxalacetic Transaminase (AST/TGO) 27 UI/L (0 to 40)
Piruvic Transaminase (ALT/TGP) 36 UI/L (0 to 41)


Urine Analysis
Color Yellow
Aspect Sightly turbid
Density 1.025 (1.002 to 1.030)
pH 5 (4.5 to 7.5)

Glucose negative
Hemoglobine negative
Urobiligene negative
Protein negative
Bilirrubin negative
Ketone bodies negative
Nitrites negative
Leucocitary Esterase negative

Hematies 0-1 x CPO (0 to 3)
Leucocites 0-2 x CPO (0 to 4)
Flat cells 0-1 x CPO
Bacteria scarce
Mucine scarce

Testosterone 5.3 ng/mL
Estradiol 47 pg/mL (11 to 44) (DAMN high)
Prolactine 5.2 mIU/L (0.9 to 15)
Cortisol 8 AM 12.7 ng/mL (6.7 to 22.6)

-26-09-2017 3 days after PANSTERONE -
================================================================================
DHEA-S 327.2 µg/dL


- 10-10-2017 about 17 days after Pansterone -
================================================================================
Estradiol 23 pg/ml (down a bit)
Prolactin 10 ng/ml (different units than previous tests but seems to be higher, significantly)
Testosterone 3.60 ng/ml (lower)
Free Testosterone 15 pg/ml (twice higher)
DHEA-S 274.1 ug/dL (a bit less than previous tests)
DHT 8.0 pg/dL (extremely low - first time I measure this)
Cortisol 27.3 ug/dL (higher - blood draw was about 15-20 min later and I was a bit stressed about delay)


DHT is so damn low that I'm gonna look on google for testies transplant xD

 

[vulture]

Today went to an endo and he asked for LH and FSH blood tests 3 weeks after suspending Pansteorne.
Also said testes have normal size. Recommended zinc supplement or even Zinc, mg, calcium stack. Gonna order some Zinc gluconate (is the hardest mineral to get in my diet) and keeping almost everything the same, but stopping Pansterone. I suppose calcium from 100-150 g of cheese and vit C from about 15 to 20 oranges a day is enought.

 

[vulture]

This is usually my diet. Also, I use to take some veggies like cabbage, celery, mushrooms, that I didn't add. Supplements aren't also listed.
My weight is 67 Kg now, I'm 1.83 m tall. According to the website that I used to calculate my calories, I'm way over my caloric needs.
(I added 4 tbsp of sugar in the 5th meal, but I take them split usually between the morning and evening)

 

[Wagner83]

-BEFORE FASTING (4 DAYS WATER FAST)-
================================================================================
Mid-August 2.017 Blood Tests (start):
Testosterone 2,4 ng/mL
Free Testosterone 7,5 pg/mL
Cortisol 08:00 16,4 ng/mL
TSH 0,9 mlU/L
T3 soon
T4 6,9 ug/dL
Free T4 1,31 ng/dL
Prolactine 5,2 mlU/L
Estradiol 35 pg/mL

Triglicerides 32 mg/dL
Cholesterol 212 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 62 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol 145 mg/dL
VLDL Cholesterol 5 mg/dL

-22-09-2017 - AFTER 4 DAYS WATER FASTING, THEN 3 WEEKS OF PEATING-
================================================================================
Eritrocites 5.37 10^6/uL (4.5 to 5.5)
Hemoglobine 15.8 g/dL (13 to 18)
Hematocrite 47.8 % (42 to 52)
Mean Corpuscular Volume 89 fL
Mean Corpuscular Hb 29.4 pg (27 to 31)
Mean Corpuscular Volume Concentration 33.1 g/dL (32 to 36)
RDW 13.1 % (11.5 to 14.5)
Leucocites 4.53 10^3/uL (4 to 10)
Neutrofiles 45% (55 to 70) LOW
Linfocintes 46% (17 to 45) slightly high
Monocites 7.5% (0 to 10)
Eosinofiles 1,1 % (0 to 4)
Basofiles 9.5 fL (6 to 11)

Glicemia 97 mg/dL (70 to 110)
BUN 18 mg/dL (7 to 25)
Creatinine 0.9 mg/dL (0.4 to 1.4)
Oxalacetic Transaminase (AST/TGO) 27 UI/L (0 to 40)
Piruvic Transaminase (ALT/TGP) 36 UI/L (0 to 41)


Urine Analysis
Color Yellow
Aspect Sightly turbid
Density 1.025 (1.002 to 1.030)
pH 5 (4.5 to 7.5)

Glucose negative
Hemoglobine negative
Urobiligene negative
Protein negative
Bilirrubin negative
Ketone bodies negative
Nitrites negative
Leucocitary Esterase negative

Hematies 0-1 x CPO (0 to 3)
Leucocites 0-2 x CPO (0 to 4)
Flat cells 0-1 x CPO
Bacteria scarce
Mucine scarce

Testosterone 5.3 ng/mL
Estradiol 47 pg/mL (11 to 44) (DAMN high)
Prolactine 5.2 mIU/L (0.9 to 15)
Cortisol 8 AM 12.7 ng/mL (6.7 to 22.6)

-26-09-2017 3 days after PANSTERONE -
================================================================================
DHEA-S 327.2 µg/dL


- 10-10-2017 about 17 days after Pansterone -
================================================================================
Estradiol 23 pg/ml (down a bit)
Prolactin 10 ng/ml (different units than previous tests but seems to be higher, significantly)
Testosterone 3.60 ng/ml (lower)
Free Testosterone 15 pg/ml (twice higher)
DHEA-S 274.1 ug/dL (a bit less than previous tests)
DHT 8.0 pg/dL (extremely low - first time I measure this)
Cortisol 27.3 ug/dL (higher - blood draw was about 15-20 min later and I was a bit stressed about delay)


DHT is so damn low that I'm gonna look on google for testies transplant xD

@haidut Did you see this? It looks like 4 days of water fasting and then 3 weeks of a better diet did him well and then pansterone did not.

 

[haidut]

@haidut Did you see this? It looks like 4 days of water fasting and then 3 weeks of a better diet did him well and then pansterone did not.

Well, pansterone use seems to have raised free T as it did in @Makrosky. Estrogen went down a bit. Total T is still higher after Pansterone than it was before this experiment started and Pansterone was used. DHT was low after Pansterone but it was not tested before that so we don't know what it was before. If this person has some sort of 5-AR issue then pansterone may not help much...

 

[Wagner83]

Well, pansterone use seems to have raised free T as it did in @Makrosky. Estrogen went down a bit. Total T is still higher after Pansterone than it was before this experiment started and Pansterone was used. DHT was low after Pansterone but it was not tested before that so we don't know what it was before. If this person has some sort of 5-AR issue then pansterone may not help much...

Yeah, looking at the "-22-09-2017 - AFTER 4 DAYS WATER FASTING, THEN 3 WEEKS OF PEATING-" and "after 17 days of pansterone" parts, it seems estradiol was reduced by a lot, but so was T and prolactin went quite up. The higher prolactin and lower T doesn't seem desirable. I asked this on the other thread but you may have missed it: you posted a study about the irrelevancy of the concept of "free hormones", at least when it comes to albumin bound ones, do you think free T has any value as a test?

 

[haidut]

Yeah, looking at the "-22-09-2017 - AFTER 4 DAYS WATER FASTING, THEN 3 WEEKS OF PEATING-" and "after 17 days of pansterone" parts, it seems estradiol was reduced by a lot, but so was T and prolactin went quite up. The higher prolactin and lower T doesn't seem desirable. I asked this on the other thread but you may have missed it: you posted a study about the irrelevancy of the concept of "free hormones", at least when it comes to albumin bound ones, do you think free T has any value as a test?

I think free T has a value as far as suggesting that SHBG was lowered. I think both free T and total T give useful information. Total T gives indication of gonadal function, while free T gives an idea of estrogenicity. If free T goes up, this suggests SHBG has gone down and since SHBG goes up and down together with estrogen, it suggests estrogen also went down. By estrogen, I mean total estrogenic reserves, as SHBG rises or falls to reflect systemic estrogenic tone, not only what's in the blood.

 

[vulture]

@haidut Did you see this? It looks like 4 days of water fasting and then 3 weeks of a better diet did him well and then pansterone did not.

Also I have to add that my endo said that T reacts slowly to changes, and it may take even 2 or 3 months to see significant changes in levels. According him, improving my diet could have effects

I think free T has a value as far as suggesting that SHBG was lowered. I think both free T and total T give useful information. Total T gives indication of gonadal function, while free T gives an idea of estrogenicity. If free T goes up, this suggests SHBG has gone down and since SHBG goes up and down together with estrogen, it suggests estrogen also went down. By estrogen, I mean total estrogenic reserves, as SHBG rises or falls to reflect systemic estrogenic tone, not only what's in the blood.

I could perform that blood test. Sadly, there's no previous result to compare with, so: would it be useful?
Also, Endo said total T reacts slowly, even taking 2 or 3 months to see results from diet changes

 

[Makrosky]

@vulture, out of curiosity, what is your endo MD proposed solution when you consult him ?