Some Skeptical Thoughts On Meditation

[amethyst]

I like Alan Watts, I listened to a lot of audios of him during one month I was ill this summer!
This is true what you say about going beyond words, and the felt sense is a good link to what you feel about what you think...

He's right on the money with a lot of things he's said.

 

[amethyst]

Well, that can be meditative thinking.... but meditation is when you do not stay thinking with the cortex part of your brain only. If you apply the felt sense to what you said about your opinión about pone, you might notice what is your emotion about it, I guess between anger and sadness, and then you can go deeper into where in your body you feel those sensations, and how does it feel etc., what does it modifiy in your body. This will unite all the part of the brain into unity, and you will feel what you think, and this will add something to your way of meditating. You can try out of curiosity!

Interesting take....nah, it's more annoyance ..getting ranty here.....it's like we can do better.... about the "smart" phones...they are not making people smart but dumb I guess it's that you see people in public, restaurants,shopping and no one is communicating with one another, no one is talking but taking selfies all the time, everyone is zoned out........they are communicating, making love to, obsessing over that little rectangle they carry around with them 24/7 ..like the dangling carrot in front of the horse...an inanimate object ok, rant over

 

[PeatThemAll]

Interesting take....nah, it's more annoyance ..getting ranty here.....it's like we can do better.... about the "smart" phones...they are not making people smart but dumb I guess it's that you see people in public, restaurants,shopping and no one is communicating with one another, no one is talking but taking selfies all the time, everyone is zoned out........they are communicating, making love to, obsessing over that little rectangle they carry around with them 24/7 ..like the dangling carrot in front of the horse...an inanimate object ok, rant over

Paraphrasing Cal Newport: People used to go to the casino to get their "fix". Now the casino has gone to them, in their pocket, available 24/7.

The propensity has always been there. But now we've taken almost all of the stops/restraints/constraints out. Not a pleasant sight. And surely not healthy, short, medium, or long term.

 

[zelda_the_brain]

I guess it's that you see people in public, restaurants,shopping and no one is communicating with one another, no one is talking but taking selfies all the time, everyone is zoned out........they are communicating, making love to, obsessing over that little rectangle they carry around with them 24/7 ..like the dangling carrot in front of the horse...an inanimate object ok, rant over

That's also from all the PUFA causing brain fog, lol!

Yeah it's scary no one's brain seems to be working.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't have brain fog anymore quite the contrary I now have over thinking and anxiety! I think a sense of fogginess to dampen thoughts would be welcome over anxiety. But I'm learning meditation to let thoughts pass without holding on to them as my own. Thoughts can arise from feelings in our body as I have much experience with panic attacks, it can make you feel like you are in hell! But it is just the body in fight or flight. So allowing things to pass and having love for myself has helped me greatly overcome my issues. Also having someone to load off your feelings on to can be helpful I found. It has helped me express myself and in turn led to more self confidence in figuring out my own issues and not getting so in my head that I freak out about what I find!

On another note what do you all think of tapping? I found it useful when my body was freaking out. It's like a guided meditation of affirmations that all is well. Maybe that is what religions do for people, they provide a sense of peace that even though we suffer, it will be okay. And being grateful for what you do have can get you out of despair.

 

[Stramonium]

As others have stated before, I don't personally agree that meditation can be replaced by any other kind of activity that requires a constant focus. On the contrary it seems to be a way to let go of thinking and stimuli.

I've been to a few Yoga classes and we do a bit of meditation at the end, the instructor always advice to inhale to the count of 8 and exhale to the count of 16 according to the Yogi tradition for breathing. Wouldn't this be a way of retaining more CO2 that might be contributing to the beneficial effects of meditation? mental sharpness, sense of well being, etc?

 

[zelda_the_brain]

Yes, it's a very good way to retain CO2. I sometimes do this breathing while driving home if I'm feeling stressed. This alone does wonders for my mood.
There are different kinds of meditation. The kind I do is the kind where I try not to think at all. It's especially helpful for me as I can be very neurotic.
I have noticed, though, that the better I FEEL the better my mental state is. The body affects the mind just as the mind affects the body. I never would have had to work so hard on my mental state had my health not plummeted so drastically.

 

[zelda_the_brain]

Janelle, I've never heard of tapping. I'm going to look into it and get back to you. I have tried using positive affirmations and that has helped me, especially when I'm at work when it's harder to take time to really be calm.

 

[zelda_the_brain]

Janelle, do you use positive affirmations when you do tapping? Some things I've read while looking into this have suggested using tapping to work through negative emotions which seems like a bad idea to me. I'm wary of psych techniques that focus on the negative, so if your using it to be positive I can see how that would be helpful. What I did when I used positive affirmations is I found some sayings, thoughts, and quotes that made me feel happy or calm and I typed them into my phone to look at when I was down or depressed. This helped me when I felt like I was already doing everything I could to help my physical health and was getting frustrated at still not feeling well, having to wait to heal, etc. When I'm depressed or anxious (for lack of better words) I can never think of things to be thankful for or happy about on my own. How did you go about this?
I would be skeptical to try tapping myself as it seems like mostly placebo to me, but that's kind of the way I see most psychology. It has its place in making people feel better but still does not get to the root of the problem, whereas I see breathing and meditation as things that actually help to change your physiology. I could be wrong though. I thought yoga seemed new agey and fake until my physical therapist recommended it to me to help my scoliosis. It really cured my upper back pain until I didn't have the energy to keep up on it anymore.
When it comes to being stuck in negative modes, though, anything that can help get you out of that is great. Does anyone else have experience with tapping or with using positive affirmations?

 

[InChristAlone]

I found this lady who cured her hashimotos and panic attacks with tapping and a emotional freedom technique using muscle testing called 'the emotion code'. I just read the book and started releasing emotions on myself. I have doubts but I have seen muscle testing work for ailments with my own eyes so I think there may be something to trapped emotions... I was able to ask my body when the emotion got trapped and many of them I found I knew before I even got a yes what the answer was. Like getting a trapped emotion of longing after I vacationed with my family and had to say goodbye. I had been doing very well in my life leading up to that vacation, then afterwards I felt lost and depressed, longing for something I couldn't have. Then I made decisions that were very damaging to my life. I am still in repair after those decisions a year later. So releasing them I hope to move forward. Here is that lady's website with the tapping video that helped me during panic attacks. http://www.harmony-restored.com/blog/2016/4/28/how-to-calm-anxiety-in-2-minutes

 

[Parsifal]

Incidentally, some of the audits I had with exiled Scientology people proved exactly the same thing -- that there is a distinct body vs personality, and that you can move the personality around.

Sidenote: Scientology has some very good systems of knowledge and practice. The Church however, is crazy . I view both independently, and take what is good, and leave the rest.​

Are you referring to Dianectics?

 

[Xisca]

I found this lady who cured her hashimotos and panic attacks with tapping and a emotional freedom technique using muscle testing called 'the emotion code'. I just read the book and started releasing emotions on myself. I have doubts but I have seen muscle testing work for ailments with my own eyes so I think there may be something to trapped emotions... I was able to ask my body when the emotion got trapped and many of them I found I knew before I even got a yes what the answer was. Like getting a trapped emotion of longing after I vacationed with my family and had to say goodbye. I had been doing very well in my life leading up to that vacation, then afterwards I felt lost and depressed, longing for something I couldn't have. Then I made decisions that were very damaging to my life. I am still in repair after those decisions a year later. So releasing them I hope to move forward. Here is that lady's website with the tapping video that helped me during panic attacks. How To Calm Anxiety in 2 Minutes

I have learned some kynesiology before I decided to learn somatic experiencing.
And I understand more of kynesiology through SE. It is in all case the release, the discharge, that is efficient. And it happens only when you focus on body sensations.
But it is different to calm anxiety and to discharge, and recycle, the energy. In the 1st case it is useful but you have to do it again when anxiety shows up again. In the 2nd cas do not have anxiete youy anymore, because the activation will not reach the level you cannot handle it. It has to do with what we are able to handle, to sustain, to contain in our soul, in the container, the vehicle, whatever you call it. When it is too much, you cannot handle, and then the same thing isn't too much any more, so anxiety goes away.

So, when you repeat and repeat some efficient exercise, pay attention to what happens at physical level when you calm down. This is more important tahn the going away of anxiety itself.

 

[DButter]

My reward of freedom came when I rejected all teachers and the concept of enlightenment. I remember the morning, I lay on the floor and laughed for hours at myself and at the goofiness of my "madness after enlightenment". I realized we are all already That. Nothing to become or change into or be better at or end the karma or pay for our sins etc. etc.

We are all exploring the human expression and I personally appreciate the positivity encouraged on this forum to stand in support of each other.

I love this

 

[lampofred]

Most "New Age" stuff and modern-day "gurus" that I've comes across have been extremely misguided, either mistakenly with good intentions or even possibly malevolently. But proper meditation, done as its explained straight from the source, such as the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita (NOT with any commentaries because it's those commentaries which, although well-intentioned, totally mess up the intended meaning of the texts) is very much in-line with Peat's guidelines the way I see it. The teachings are meant to reduce learned helplessness, and meditation increases dopamine, decreases serotonin, increases GABA, turns off the stress response (HPA axis), and increases CO2. Not sure if there's anything else which is that "Peaty" except for thyroid itself. You just have to be careful not to fall into the falsely-empathetic, weakening, vegetarian, "all-is-well and I should never fight anything" train of thought which unfortunately most people do because of misleading fake Internet "gurus" who put their own misguided interpretations onto piercingly insightful texts that really don't need any commentary to be understood.

 

[Waynish]

What's the best you've ever felt?
Have you done MDMA?
What would you do if you had evidence that you could achieve these states more readily via meditation than drugs?
And what if such evidence came in the form of direct experience...

 

[Wolf]

I have actively meditated since I was 14. From the ages of 14-16 I meditated to dissociate and from 16-22 I meditated to stay grounded and calm. The past few years my practices have shifted towards meditating to be more of myself. More intense, more intelligent, more everything. It becomes much easier to get something done when you don't have any subconscious worries floating around in your head. What's the point of worrying about a given event in the past or work stressors? Better to take things as they come, adapt to the situation, and change the direction that events unfold in.

 

[Xisca]

Past stressors make you constrict. Meditation makes you expand! Yes we have to adapt and follow the flow, including of what we feel inside, this is the most important. The problem is that when the wave is a tsunami, you need some help to come back to the flow! Ther is not point in worrying, but people who got a big accident cant help it sometimes. Our inner strnegth is big but with some limits, same as our physical strength, because both are in our incarnation.

 

[Sepulchrave]

Barefooter,

You just never made any progress at it. Perhaps a lack of effort, lack of decent teachers, bad karma. You have no clue about what you're talking about.

LisaFerraro,
For good reasons, the bible says "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak".

 

[lampofred]

I don't know about what the Bible says, but in Hindu scriptures, the source of virtually all yoga and meditation, it is written that both men and women are allowed to meditate. There are even female sages. The soul is genderless.

 

[tara]

For good reasons, the bible says "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak".

Possible interpretation:
For reasons such as that the writer of that bit of the a key document in one of the major patriarchal religions was male and he may have felt comfortable preserving traditions of male domination, he wrote: "Shut up, women". Sepulchrave reinforces male domination tradition by quoting this old text in order to tell a present day woman to shut up.