How to disassociate from chronic fear state?

Zpol

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I feel like I'm as far as I can go with healing via diet, supplements, tests, etc. These things are important but not everything. There's a mental aspect that I haven't figured out yet.

Obviously the current state of humanity is a constant background stress. Food intolerances are also a major stress.
RP makes a valid point that stress can cause all sorts of health issues and recommends avoiding food triggers and stressful environments; which makes sense. However, the more I avoid these stressors, the more terrified I get because I feel like I'm living in a house of cards. As long as I can control my food intake and environment I can manage, but that's becoming considerably harder these days and may be impossible in the future. So many things in the world are triggers for me at this point; bright light, loud noise, long car rides, even slightly cold temperatures, EMF's, strong scents (including natural scents like virgin coconut oil for example), indoor pollutants (mold, dust, etc.), plus the ever present possibility that even my 'safe' foods are secretly triggering something. I basically just stay home now. I only go out for work and to get groceries. I feel like I'm living in fear of migraines, stomach pain, brain fog, chronic illness, tick bites, and all the symptoms that I've had on off over the years. Migraines have returned after two years (thought I cured them, guess not).

I realize the importance of a novel and stimulating environment and the need for feeling like a productive member of society; I'm working on that. I still go for walks, get out in nature when I'm feeling well enough. I hang with family and friends when possible. Try to learn new things and get involved in various activities. But these things are becoming increasingly difficult to do since they all involve getting out of my comfort zone which is my home. At home, I can be in control of food, food frequency, air quality, I can hide in a dark room if I get a migraine, I have a medicine cabinet of remedies for everything. But this isn't the answer. I need to find a way to be resilient at least to moderate amounts of stress.

I need to figure out how to disassociate from this fear state so I can live my life. I've looked into hypnosis, limbic system retraining, meditation/mindfulness. Hypnosis seems almost like tricking yourself into some other state of mind. Meditation/mindfulness helps with managing pain but I don't feel like it really solves anything. Limbic system retraining seems promising but something about it doesn't seem quite right; like it lacks a spirituality component or something.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 

Perry Staltic

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I don't think dissociation is a good idea. That appears to me to just be a mind trick where we form two opposing identities, one good, one bad, and embrace the good identity while demonizing and rejecting the bad identity. Might feel better, but the problem never gets resolved.

It sounds like you're afraid of not being in control.
 

RayIV

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I don't think dissociation is a good idea. That appears to me to just be a mind trick where we form two opposing identities, one good, one bad, and embrace the good identity while demonizing and rejecting the bad identity. Might feel better, but the problem never gets resolved.

It sounds like you're afraid of not being in control.
I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. I think any dissociation techniques could very well lead to what I’d consider a fragmented personality of sorts, as you’ve mentioned. I believe there must be a better way.

@Zpol I’d suggest, if I may, to try and stop resisting the futility of these situations that you cannot control. I think that in and of itself, is what ails you. Letting go of these circumstances that you’re unable to puppeteer, as much as you’d like to, may be the first step in freeing you from your stress. I don’t have all of the answers, but I’ve been in a similar mental state, in my previous life. I’ll try to ponder more solutions, my friend. I wish you the best in the pursuit of your solution.
 

tankasnowgod

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Heh! I don't know about that but if I could safely microdose LSD I would.
I know you said you were thinking of things other than supplements, but I noticed that a few months doing cyproheptadine, in dosages of 4-8mg a day, completely abolished the feeling of low level anxiety. I think it also restrained my adrenaline response, because I don't get those "jolts" of fear in similar situation, like if I get cut off in traffic or something. It also seems to have helped my digestion and such quite a bit. Have you done anything like this? I know you mentioned famotidine in other posts, and I've seen some positives from experimenting with that, but the months I spent on cypro were even more helpful than the famotidine. (Also, of note, last time I had a headache that didn't respond to aspirin, cypro seemed to clear it right up).

Afterwards, I was in a better place, but still needed more "purpose," if that's the right word. I got back into the habit of doing a daily gratitude exercise, setting goals, planning, reading a lot (especially in self help), and doing more research in things I was interested in. I think there is a lot to be said for that combo (cypro to restrain stress/anxiety, and the addition of purpose later).

I found "The Kybalion" to be one of the most helpful books, in this regard. It's in the public domain, and you can get it for free here, if interested-

 
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Zpol

Zpol

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It sounds like you're afraid of not being in control.
Yes, I would agree this a major cause of anxiety for me. But the threats are real. Allergenic foods, pollutants, radiation, etc. do affect my health negatively. So how do I face the threats without the fear? That's my quandary. I feel like I have to break the association of the physiological reaction to the trigger in order to truly abandon the fear.

I’d suggest, if I may, to try and stop resisting the futility of these situations that you cannot control. I think that in and of itself, is what ails you. Letting go of these circumstances that you’re unable to puppeteer, as much as you’d like to, may be the first step in freeing you from your stress. I don’t have all of the answers, but I’ve been in a similar mental state, in my previous life. I’ll try to ponder more solutions, my friend. I wish you the best in the pursuit of your solution.
It definitely feels like a weight has been lifted when I think of 'letting go', knowing that it's useless to try to maintain control. It's a thought that I've actually managed to hang onto for days at a time in fact, but I've found that too much of this thought pattern is not good either. It doesn't seem to lead to great decision making for me. I've got to find some middle ground. Also, as soon as I feel symptoms returning, I loose the thought again.
Sounds like you've managed to figure this out to some extent in your past life; I appreciate any thoughts you may wish to share.

Afterwards, I was in a better place, but still needed more "purpose," if that's the right word. I got back into the habit of doing a daily gratitude exercise, setting goals, planning, reading a lot (especially in self help), and doing more research in things I was interested in. I think there is a lot to be said for that combo (cypro to restrain stress/anxiety, and the addition of purpose later).
I have found Famotidine, aspirin, and even Benadryl to be greatly beneficial; but the effect is temporary. I tried cypro a couple years ago but had a reaction to one of the excipients. As it happens, I recently found out there's a compounding pharmacy nearby that can make it, hopefully excipient free; just got to ask my doctor to send in a prescription. So thank you, I'll give that a try.
Your point regarding the additional step of pursuing something purposeful is one I'm making note of. The state of the world and of humanity has been distracting me from my personal goals lately. Time to reset my intentions in that area.

I found "The Kybalion" to be one of the most helpful books, in this regard. It's in the public domain, and you can get it for free here, if interested-
Thanks, just downloaded it. Looks interesting. I could use some philosophical wisdom right about now, something to shift my perspective.
 
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Fear is the opposite of love. Find something or someone you love and immerse yourself in it.

It also sounds like you may have some control issues. Learn to let go.

I used a fear innoculum approach to my fiance's fear of heights because she wanted to start climbing with me, but heights utterly paralyzed her.

It began with walking her to the edge of a small drop off and progressing from there. We now climb together. The transformation was incredible to watch.

Change your mindset. Don't look to disassociate from your fears...avoiding them won't work. Face them.

Take your time, man. You will get there.
 
Last edited:

Markr2d2

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It sounds like you have become much more fragile than robust.

The only thing in life you can control are your thoughts and emotions.

Look into taoism.

Disconnect from media.
 

Lejeboca

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I'd look into flower essences (e.g. from Dr Bach). Help me to combat fear and anxiety, and I can go for long periods (a few weeks) without them until something tangible (as opposed as smth "in my head") triggers them, then I try to remove that stressor and use the selected fl. essence again.
 

Perry Staltic

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I've got to find some middle ground.

Balance; it's the struggle of life. Kudos to figuring that out; many people never do. Sometimes you just have to let go and face the reality of mortality. I really like uphillendeavors' comments above. Be kind to yourself and realize you can only do what you can do. Worrying about everything else is pointless and harmful to well-being.
 
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I was in that state for years and I thought that I have to "work" on anxiety. I thought that It's my thinking behaviour that makes me that way. I was wrong, even with daily exposure, fear and dissociation was still there. I was hypotyroid.
Eating a lot, even if it's surplus, will make you sedated but careless, combined with 1g of B3 and 10 mg of Progesterone, you will be in heaven.
The combination of Fat + Carbs is the most antistress thing ever, but it also inhibits the glucose oxidation if it's too much in some people.
 

Korven

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I feel like I'm as far as I can go with healing via diet, supplements, tests, etc. These things are important but not everything. There's a mental aspect that I haven't figured out yet.

Obviously the current state of humanity is a constant background stress. Food intolerances are also a major stress.
RP makes a valid point that stress can cause all sorts of health issues and recommends avoiding food triggers and stressful environments; which makes sense. However, the more I avoid these stressors, the more terrified I get because I feel like I'm living in a house of cards. As long as I can control my food intake and environment I can manage, but that's becoming considerably harder these days and may be impossible in the future. So many things in the world are triggers for me at this point; bright light, loud noise, long car rides, even slightly cold temperatures, EMF's, strong scents (including natural scents like virgin coconut oil for example), indoor pollutants (mold, dust, etc.), plus the ever present possibility that even my 'safe' foods are secretly triggering something. I basically just stay home now. I only go out for work and to get groceries. I feel like I'm living in fear of migraines, stomach pain, brain fog, chronic illness, tick bites, and all the symptoms that I've had on off over the years. Migraines have returned after two years (thought I cured them, guess not).

I realize the importance of a novel and stimulating environment and the need for feeling like a productive member of society; I'm working on that. I still go for walks, get out in nature when I'm feeling well enough. I hang with family and friends when possible. Try to learn new things and get involved in various activities. But these things are becoming increasingly difficult to do since they all involve getting out of my comfort zone which is my home. At home, I can be in control of food, food frequency, air quality, I can hide in a dark room if I get a migraine, I have a medicine cabinet of remedies for everything. But this isn't the answer. I need to find a way to be resilient at least to moderate amounts of stress.

I need to figure out how to disassociate from this fear state so I can live my life. I've looked into hypnosis, limbic system retraining, meditation/mindfulness. Hypnosis seems almost like tricking yourself into some other state of mind. Meditation/mindfulness helps with managing pain but I don't feel like it really solves anything. Limbic system retraining seems promising but something about it doesn't seem quite right; like it lacks a spirituality component or something.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hmmm... you bring up some really good questions.

I don't think avoiding the things that make you sick is based in fear. In my view doing so is the opposite of fear - it's based in self-love and taking care of yourself.

I have spent a lot of time in my comfort zone at home because I have had CFS and anytime I exerted myself too much it made my symptoms worse. I had to actively restrain myself to not start doing too much whenever I felt better as it would always set me back. Over the long-run I believe this has allowed me to not get worse and slowly get better together with various diet/supplement/hormone interventions.

Now, I also get it, at some point you want to start living and not have something terrible happen to you as soon as you step out the door. But honestly I think this largely depends on your state of health and how much resilience reserves you have. A healthy person can do a lot of things and not get sick, a less healthy person can not do many things and even then still get worse. So yeah I wouldn't necessarily say it is chronic fear that is holding you back, it's your body and your overall health.

With that said, anxiety and fear from worrying about things that may or may not happen in the future is obviously not good for your health. Even if these threats are indeed real. It is like having a 24/7 cortisol IV drip. What I've found to be helpful is not to dissociate from fearful thoughts or emotions but allow them to be there and work through/integrate them. For example if I have really bad painful anxiety I will lie down and allow any anxious feelings to be felt 100%. Usually this transforms the anxiety into something I can work with, and sometimes the anxiety even becomes pleasant, which I know sounds kind of weird but that's how it feels to me.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a healthy, 'productive fear' that prevents you from engaging in behaviours or exposing yourself to situations that make you sicker, and then there is 'unproductive fear' which is maladaptive and contributes to making you more stressed and anxious and sick. I think the latter is what you want to avoid.

Also just as you want to be careful to eat a good diet consisting of healthy foods, I think it's also important to be mindful about your "mind diet". I try to be very, very careful with what news, media and information I consume on a daily basis because I know seeing upsetting things will put me in a bad mood.
Good luck friend!:cheers
 

Matestube

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I feel like I'm as far as I can go with healing via diet, supplements, tests, etc. These things are important but not everything. There's a mental aspect that I haven't figured out yet.

Obviously the current state of humanity is a constant background stress. Food intolerances are also a major stress.
RP makes a valid point that stress can cause all sorts of health issues and recommends avoiding food triggers and stressful environments; which makes sense. However, the more I avoid these stressors, the more terrified I get because I feel like I'm living in a house of cards. As long as I can control my food intake and environment I can manage, but that's becoming considerably harder these days and may be impossible in the future. So many things in the world are triggers for me at this point; bright light, loud noise, long car rides, even slightly cold temperatures, EMF's, strong scents (including natural scents like virgin coconut oil for example), indoor pollutants (mold, dust, etc.), plus the ever present possibility that even my 'safe' foods are secretly triggering something. I basically just stay home now. I only go out for work and to get groceries. I feel like I'm living in fear of migraines, stomach pain, brain fog, chronic illness, tick bites, and all the symptoms that I've had on off over the years. Migraines have returned after two years (thought I cured them, guess not).

I realize the importance of a novel and stimulating environment and the need for feeling like a productive member of society; I'm working on that. I still go for walks, get out in nature when I'm feeling well enough. I hang with family and friends when possible. Try to learn new things and get involved in various activities. But these things are becoming increasingly difficult to do since they all involve getting out of my comfort zone which is my home. At home, I can be in control of food, food frequency, air quality, I can hide in a dark room if I get a migraine, I have a medicine cabinet of remedies for everything. But this isn't the answer. I need to find a way to be resilient at least to moderate amounts of stress.

I need to figure out how to disassociate from this fear state so I can live my life. I've looked into hypnosis, limbic system retraining, meditation/mindfulness. Hypnosis seems almost like tricking yourself into some other state of mind. Meditation/mindfulness helps with managing pain but I don't feel like it really solves anything. Limbic system retraining seems promising but something about it doesn't seem quite right; like it lacks a spirituality component or something.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Have you tried strong androgens such as T and DHT? They are very good for this.
 

L91

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Messages
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To me dissociation is a break when under a crushing amount of pressure, but you can't do it endlessly. Seems like repression to me, which just comes out in other ways, especially physical ways, which I'm sure you're hoping to avoid. Try radical acceptance, or something along those lines.
 
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I know you said you were thinking of things other than supplements, but I noticed that a few months doing cyproheptadine, in dosages of 4-8mg a day, completely abolished the feeling of low level anxiety. I think it also restrained my adrenaline response, because I don't get those "jolts" of fear in similar situation, like if I get cut off in traffic or something. It also seems to have helped my digestion and such quite a bit.
Did you notice an "enlargening" of your "down there"?
 

Nokoni

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Feb 18, 2017
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When I get wrapped around my own mental axle the most effective remedy for me is cannabis. I've been doing it for more than 50 years, quite a bit in those days, only infrequently since then, but regularly, though in very low dosages, in the more recent past. A while back I heard Scott Adams say that he noticed while in college that people liked him better when he was high. I found that interesting so I gave it a trial and found it to be true in my case too. And I also noticed that it gave me a pretty significant reset. Stuff that was bothering me paled to insignificance within the hour. In the 90's there was a book out called "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff and It's All Small Stuff". I never read it but it turns out that, at least for me, it's largely true. So yeah, I'm less tense and the fact that people clearly prefer me that way is a nice bonus. I keep a bowl loaded and take one small hit daily, except that I actually forget most days. Hardly a pot-head but I really benefit from the effect. After all, cannabis receptors are there for a reason and maybe the endogenous supply that tickles them dries up over time, like it does with so many other beneficial chemicals. Might be worth a shot.
 
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Zpol

Zpol

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"The Kybalion"
Thank you for this recommendation. I found it very eye-opening. A great explanation of the nature of nature. It brought me some clarity in regards to my existence as a human in relation to the supposed uncertainties in the universe.

Your point about having 'purpose' however, has been a work in progress.
I used to have what I thought was an important purpose, now I don't, that's a problem. I think it's connected to my health. Like I'm subconsciously creating ill health so I can create an urgent need for myself to obsessively research health topics as if it's my purpose. If I get healthy, then what will my purpose be?

My original purpose was to retire early from my 9-5 job and pursue a career in hypnotherapy. Then I realized that all the instructors are in a chronic state of hypnosis themselves, and some of them are straight up deluded. My original instructor, the only one I met who truly knew what was going on, passed away several years ago. What's worse is that, it seems like a majority of people are in a sort of trance-like state now days. So do I switch my goal to the opposite and pursue UN-hypnotherapy?! I'm only half joking about that.
 

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