So so so Tired

[Nicole]

Hey friends!
2 weeks into Ray Peats perspectives (not taking anything for thyroid yet) and I can't make it past awake for 2 hours. Yesterday I napped for 5 hours and went to bed at a normal time that night. I feel drugged. My lowest temp was 35.2 and highest 36.8. Those temps aren't that bad, right?

I'm used to cutting out fruit, sugar and dairy . So its a bit of a shock to the system... I thought my body would love it. I got too sick from milk but handling cheese with just a runny nose reaction.

Any suggestions on if I should keep going or is this crazy increased fatigue a sign I should stop?

If there's already a detailed post on this you can direct me- I can't seem to last long searching online and the brain fog doesn't help me in reading long academic articles (which are awesome).

Thanks!! :)

 

[pboy]

don't stop necessarily, but take it easier...in such a state as you describe how could any progress be made? Do what you can rely on and add a little Peatness in here and there and test how you feel

and you need to have enough energy to maintain wakefulness and thinking capacity, so don't undereat! rest can be a good thing, but if you are sedated and brain fog its probably a lack of overall energy, or you ate something that was really heavy and indigestible

 

[Katty]

don't stop necessarily, but take it easier...in such a state as you describe how could any progress be made? Do what you can rely on and add a little Peatness in here and there and test how you feel

Agreed. You don't have to try everything all at once. If you've been off dairy for a while, it can take a while for your body to adjust to it. Even if you need to leave out dairy totally at first, that's fine.

The fatigue could be from lowering stress hormones. I don't know your prior health or eating history, but if you weren't eating enough (or stressed for other reasons), you might have been running on stress hormones, like adrenaline. When you start eating enough food, or just food that is better able to shut down the stress response/adrenaline, then you'll feel tired. Running around on adrenaline all the time makes you feel alert like you have energy, but constantly having adrenaline going is not good for the body. So it could be that your body is exhausted and needs to rest and was previously running on adrenaline all the time. It's good that the food is able to shut down your stress hormones, but you will feel tired until your body re-builds (with food).

 

[Jenn]

When I first started, I slept a lot too. It's actually a good thing, repair wise.

 

[LucyL]

It might be related to where you are in your menstrual cycle. Keep track of it, and if you notice the same pattern of tiredness over a few months, progesterone might be in order.

 

[Nicole]

I didn't know I had responses! Thank you Lucy, Jenn, Katty, and pboy, your input is huge during this time of experimentation! :) I am going to make a diary and see if I can make sense of my responses.

I think my reaction is a combo of lowered stress and food intolerances. If anyone wants to put their "two cents" in, feel free to read my Coles Notes of health history!

What's weird with me, is I have so many severe symptoms (mix of hyper and hypo) but no test results out of range (even with the better ranges). I did have some sex hormones out of whack but my local MD didn't think much of it (he doesn't think much beyond the label "Chronic Fatigue" and says beyond an antidepressant medication I can't help you) - I am my own health advocate at this point

I've had "allergies/severe intolerances" since food introduction as a baby (dairy then sugar then eggs then gluten....). Aa a baby (and currently) I had severe environmental sensitivities and addiction to sugar (caught eating handfuls of sugar and hiding sweets around my room). We weren't allowed candy at that time and because of those actions it was further removed from my diet. I've been on an extreme low carb diet since I noticed as a teen that cutting it out cleared my skin and other symptoms. I've always been underweight aside from when i had mono (14yrs ago) and swelled up for about a year. There were pockets of my diet where I'd binge on sweets because I was so lost. So by age 30 as digestion became worse (now 32) there was nothing left to eat. I literally felt starved and angry. I pick my battles now, weigh it out and deal with the repercussions. I have functioned off of adrenaline for the last 15 yrs since diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue. The last two years I've not been working and I don't seem to run adrenaline unless I have to "do" anything. However, I want to "do" stuff (live life and give back:) and even exercise some day (need muscle)! But it results in migraines and "the Flu" for 3-5 days after a day of running adrenaline and have to do nothing for a while.

I'm now not sure how to approach the diet... wish there was a chart of simple steps to follow... if this happens then try this...then this... there's tons of info thanks to all of you and Ray Peat (which is awesome).I just get confused. Definitely no dairy for now... eggs... maybe once a month. So that leaves hydrolyzed collagen, fruit, beef and lamb, well cooked veggies with coconut Oil and carrot salad. Hopefully I can make this work without getting bored. I crave salty potato chips pretty bad and broke down and ate a bag yesterday (PUFA binge).

I did order pregnenalone, Progest E, cascara, Cynoplus, and Cynomel and started taking aspirin (with Vit D/K) for my chronic headache (instead of advil).

Let's see how this pans out, I'm currently doing my 5th or 6th treatment for SIBO,Candidiasis with Alinia, Xifaxan and Sporonox and then I will carefully introduce the T3/T4. This is my last go of anti-fungals etc.... I think.

Any links, discussions, etc. that really sound like me and can offer clear direction. The diet seems simple yet the is transition is complicated.

Many thanks again if you made it to the bottom of this long posting!!!

 

[tara]

Hi Nicole,
Lots of good ideas above.
Your post rings a couple of bells for me, but bear in mind that I haven't made a lot of progress with my key issue (migraine) yet, so I don't have strong evidence that what I am doing is working well for me yet. Don't know if any of it will be relevant for you.

I largely avoided milk for many years because I seemed to get foggy headed from it. In the last few months I've gradually worked my way up to drinking up to 2l /day, and I don't seem to get fuzzy from it now. I drink most of it it with sugar, decaf coffee, and a little salt. Occasionally in something else, like oyster soup. I'm not sure, but I think the progest-e may have something to do with my improved tolerance - it seems to counter the foggy head problem. I also eat a bit of homemade cottage cheese.

I also severely restricted sugar for many years - had beeen convinced I was addicted to it. I used to sneak sugar as a child on the rare occasions I thought I could get away with it (eg half a cup hidden in milk on my breakfast cereal). In retrospect I think the craving probably was just a sign I needed more sugar/food, and maybe the main problem with it was the lack of other nutrients to go with it. I've gradually worked my way up with this too. I've never eaten low carb.

If you back off the milk altogether or to increase it more slowly, you may get benefit from supplementing calcium. Some people here use eggsell. I'm using oyster shell.
You might satisfy that chip craving by making your own - hot salty chips baked in coconut oil.
A little liver regularly is good for minerals and vitamins. Are you OK with fish and shellfish? Good to eat for other minerals now and then, if they agree with you.

This may not be relevant for you - don't think I can tell from your post - but for people who have had a very low food/calorie intake, there are usually some discomfort with refeeding. From what I've read, needing to rest and sleep a lot is common. For a small minority there can be rapid severe (dangerous) effects in the early stages of refeeding. For anyone who has been eating less than 1000 cal a day, it's good to have medical supervision especially in the beginning as they eat more.
If you are now making a transition from low carb to high carb, it can sometimes take a while for blood sugar regulation to catch up - that might make you sleepy too.

Good luck.

 

[Katty]

Definitely no dairy for now... eggs... maybe once a month. So that leaves hydrolyzed collagen, fruit, beef and lamb, well cooked veggies with coconut Oil and carrot salad. Hopefully I can make this work without getting bored. I crave salty potato chips pretty bad and broke down and ate a bag yesterday (PUFA binge).

I hear ya on the food monotony. I have trouble with dairy, eggs, and gelatin, which makes protein on a Peat diet very tricky and repetitive. I'm better with dairy now digestion-wise, but it still gives me acne.
There's a brand of potato chips called Honest Chips- you can order them online. They're made with coconut oil, so you can still have your chips without the PUFA. Admittedly, this brand doesn't agree with me for some reason... perhaps it's because the coconut oil is not refined, but even a couple chips make my gallbladder freak out. But everyone else that I've heard who eats them has no problem with them, so it would be another option to add to your menu. There's mixed feelings about starch in the Peat world. I think ideally he might prefer ppl not to eat any starch, but a lot of Peaters do eat some. So you might be able to play with some starch and add some more foods to the menu.

I've been on an extreme low carb diet since I noticed as a teen that cutting it out cleared my skin and other symptoms. I've always been underweight aside from when i had mono (14yrs ago) and swelled up for about a year. There were pockets of my diet where I'd binge on sweets because I was so lost. So by age 30 as digestion became worse (now 32) there was nothing left to eat. I literally felt starved and angry.

I second Tara's recommendation that you may need to eat more food, and it may be uncomfortable at first. I was low carb for several years... I cut out so many carbs that there was nothing left to eat but chicken breast and kale and coconut oil. I definitely wasn't eating enough. Increasing my calories was painful (lot of digestive issues), so you might struggle with that, and it could make you tired, as your post indicates. Just go slowly and get lots of rest.

 

[tara]

There were pockets of my diet where I'd binge on sweets because I was so lost.

I used to do this for a while in my teens and twenties. I worked hard to overcome this 'addiction'. My view now is that when someone is starving and most accessible food causes distress, eating lots of sweets may be smart.

However, I want to "do" stuff (live life and give back:) and even exercise some day (need muscle)! But it results in migraines and "the Flu" for 3-5 days after a day of running adrenaline and have to do nothing for a while.

Me too. Not sure that exercise is the key factor - there are other contributors that happen around the same time. But about once fortnight I get to go out and do social exercise, and often get a migraine within a day or two after. I'm really missing doing more.

I did order pregnenalone, Progest E, cascara, Cynoplus, and Cynomel and started taking aspirin (with Vit D/K) for my chronic headache (instead of advil).

Sorry about the chronic headache. Hope it improves. I get a lot of them too, and have also started using more aspirin and less ibuprofen (I think that's the same as advil).

I'd be cautious about supplementing thyroid until you can eat enough food to support it. There are individual differences, but order of magnitude, something like 80-100g protein, lots of carbs, heading for 2500cal or more, and covering mineral and vitamin needs. It may take a while to get there from where you are now. Lowered thyroid function seems to be a way to survive famine - by making the nutrition we get last longer. As I understand it, if your reserves are depleted, adding thyroid can deepen nutrient deficiencies and cause more stress to the system.
I think progest-e is helpful for me - best after food.

 

[Nicole]

Thank you Thank you for your time! This is re-assuring, thank you for sharing your advice and experiences!

Sounds like slow and steady all around. A lot of trial and error at play...I'll focus on this for now:
80-100g protein, lots of carbs, heading for 2500cal or more, and covering mineral and vitamin needs.

I'm not sure how to get the calories/protein up while avoiding "gunking" up the intestines too much as that would feed the endotoxin too. It seems like every beneficial approach has a downside too...but as long as I do it in the right order! Maybe just OJ (which does cause bloat) with lots hydrolyzed collagen all day. I tried some organic no soy dark chocolate (which I absolutely love) last night but it kept me up really late and my guts are sore like they've been kicked around (inflamed).

Re: Seafood:
I'd love to get a better balance of trace minerals/calcium and magnesium...

I did a Carrol DNA intolerance test this year (outside of the IgG etc.)... it supposedly tells you what your food intolerances are for life. Feels like a death sentence. Eggs (yolk and white) and All Seafood came up as well as any Fruit in combination with Sugar (just the combination). I'm trying to ignore the "DNA" aspect as I believe you can turn genes on and off. But while I'm reacting to the food, the lowering of my immune system makes the chances of turning that response off less likely. So I'm not sure how to incorporate calcium with bad intolerances to Dairy, Egg (shells?) and Seafood. Gosh I'd like to lower my supplement regime too.... tricky tricky isn't it?

 

[Nicole]

Oh and Katty! Thanks for the heads up on the chips! I saw them online last night and questioned whether I should order (expensive +shipping). Maybe I'll just try one bag first and see how it goes. Some coconut oil doesn't agree with me but since I'm always buying the same refined costco brand (great price) I often forget! :)

 

[aguilaroja]

In the short term, one possibility would be to increase the intake of coconut oil as a
"slower burning fuel". This may aid the transition from the anti-candida approach where fructose sources were limited, and there have been endurance see-sawing during the day. As metabolism is boosted, the glucose delivery to the cells tends to improve so fruit digestion may become even easier.

If coconut oil intake is difficult through food and cooking, you might apply some to the skin.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

"G. W. Crile and his wife found that the metabolic rate of people in Yucatan, where coconut is a staple food, averaged 25% higher than that of people in the United States. In a hot climate, the adaptive tendency is to have a lower metabolic rate, so it is clear that some factor is more than offsetting this expected effect of high environmental temperatures...."

 

[jyb]

In the short term, one possibility would be to increase the intake of coconut oil as a
"slower burning fuel".

Coconut oil slower burning? It has fatty acids that can be burned possibly faster than even glucose, and RP's article on it suggests some thyroid like effect.