Should we avoid eating tropical fruits/oils if we aren't living in a tropical environment?

[Dr. B]

banannas and pineapple supposedly raise serotonin. coconut oil can apparently cause digestive issues, has potential allergenicity, and has some sort of 5-AR inhibiting properties as well? normally PUFA has 5AR inhibiting effects, so I am not sure what in coconut oil causes it, it seems to be something besides the extremely miniscule amount of PUFA in it since milkfat and beef tallow dont have the 5AR inhibition.

are there side effects to consuming all these tropical fruits and food items that you need to also live in a tropical environment to properly withstand? if we aren't living in a tropical environment should we avoid coconut oil, bananas, macadamia oil, pineapples, etc and instead focus on other low PUFA high SFA foods like beef and dairy for fat/protein sources, and only locally grown fruits/honey etc? if you're actually living in a tropical environment you would handle those foods differently than if you weren't there. in the colder areas they still had access to most animal sourced products, honey and some fruits.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

banannas and pineapple supposedly raise serotonin. coconut oil can apparently cause digestive issues, has potential allergenicity, and has some sort of 5-AR inhibiting properties as well? normally PUFA has 5AR inhibiting effects, so I am not sure what in coconut oil causes it, it seems to be something besides the extremely miniscule amount of PUFA in it since milkfat and beef tallow dont have the 5AR inhibition.

are there side effects to consuming all these tropical fruits and food items that you need to also live in a tropical environment to properly withstand? if we aren't living in a tropical environment should we avoid coconut oil, bananas, macadamia oil, pineapples, etc and instead focus on other low PUFA high SFA foods like beef and dairy for fat/protein sources, and only locally grown fruits/honey etc? if you're actually living in a tropical environment you would handle those foods differently than if you weren't there. in the colder areas they still had access to most animal sourced products, honey and some fruits.

Interestingly, when I asked Ray Peat which is better ghee or coconut oil, he said ghee because coconut oil is too questionable about it’s purity. I wouldn’t have guessed that one, so I have leaned in more to butter, ghee and tallow now and feel better for it.

 

[Dr. B]

Interestingly, when I asked Ray Peat which is better ghee or coconut oil, he said ghee because coconut oil is too questionable about it’s purity. I wouldn’t have guessed that one, so I have leaned in more to butter, ghee and tallow now and feel better for it.

what about coconut water?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

what about coconut water?

I don’t know what Ray Peat thinks about coconut water. I have only heard him mentioned the coconut meat being something to avoid. With that being said I would be leery to buy most coconut waters for the same reason as I will not drink nut milks, because of mold. …

People Are Finding Huge Clumps Of Mold In Their Coconut Water

If you drink coconut water, prepare to be grossed out. One poor, unsuspecting woman found a revolting glob of mold so large it looks like a baby octopus.

www.dontwasteyourmoney.com

Coconut Drink Recalled Due to Mold Problem

A Los Angeles-based company is recalling one lot of its coconut water beverage because a problem with packaging may be permitting the growth of mold.ONE

www.foodsafetynews.com

“Because some studies have found these emerging mycotoxins in some cereals and nuts that are used to make plant milks, researchers sought to measure BEA and ENN levels in various plant milks. They looked at 16 soymilk, 8 rice milk, and 8 oat milk samples purchased from local markets in Granada, Spain. Brand names weren’t disclosed. Emerging mycotoxins were detected in 2 soy, 0 rice, and 6 oat milk samples.”

Study Examines Emerging Mycotoxins in Plant Milks

The latest blog post from VeganHealth.org

veganhealth.org

 

[FrostedShores]

Eating locally makes sense to me. With the risk of mold, oxidation, and who knows what else, eating stuff imported from halfway around the world doesn't seem like the best practice. And don't they spray a lot of fruits with chemicals to prevent them from ripening too quickly? That can't be healthy. Even the organic stuff is questionable.

 

[joaquin]

I've been wondering if I should give up coconut oil for a while just to see how I feel. Now that @Rinse & rePeat mentions @raypeat questions the purity of it, I am going to go two weeks without it.

 

[Dr. B]

Eating locally makes sense to me. With the risk of mold, oxidation, and who knows what else, eating stuff imported from halfway around the world doesn't seem like the best practice. And don't they spray a lot of fruits with chemicals to prevent them from ripening too quickly? That can't be healthy. Even the organic stuff is questionable.

they do spray them to prevent ripening? i think organic should not have that? i think they sprayed something on orange shells to make them look better. usually carnuba wax is listed in the ingredients.
if even organic stuff is sprayed with things to delay ripening, then the only safe options would be non sulfur treated organic dried fruits, and organic juices.

I don’t know what Ray Peat thinks about coconut water. I have only heard him mentioned the coconut meat being something to avoid. With that being said I would be leery to buy most coconut waters for the same reason as I will not drink nut milks, because of mold. …

People Are Finding Huge Clumps Of Mold In Their Coconut Water

If you drink coconut water, prepare to be grossed out. One poor, unsuspecting woman found a revolting glob of mold so large it looks like a baby octopus.

www.dontwasteyourmoney.com

Coconut Drink Recalled Due to Mold Problem

A Los Angeles-based company is recalling one lot of its coconut water beverage because a problem with packaging may be permitting the growth of mold.ONE

www.foodsafetynews.com

“Because some studies have found these emerging mycotoxins in some cereals and nuts that are used to make plant milks, researchers sought to measure BEA and ENN levels in various plant milks. They looked at 16 soymilk, 8 rice milk, and 8 oat milk samples purchased from local markets in Granada, Spain. Brand names weren’t disclosed. Emerging mycotoxins were detected in 2 soy, 0 rice, and 6 oat milk samples.”

Study Examines Emerging Mycotoxins in Plant Milks

The latest blog post from VeganHealth.org

veganhealth.org

i have drank the organic kirkland coconut water for years, and tried many other coconut waters like harmless harvest, never noticed anything. they are in the tetrapak containers which some shelf stable milks also use.

 

[Dutchie]

Interestingly, when I asked Ray Peat which is better ghee or coconut oil, he said ghee because coconut oil is too questionable about it’s purity. I wouldn’t have guessed that one, so I have leaned in more to butter, ghee and tallow now and feel better for it.

Interesting, when I first started my health journey. I practically lived off CO as a cooking oil, it made me feel warm etc.
The past couple of years and especially lately I seem to experience some questionable results from eating even less than 1 tsp of CO total. I don't think it has anything to do with impurity, but neither do I know what's causing it.

Lately, I've come tto think that a local diet/foods are probably the best. I think throughout the years we've been spoiled by having all kinds of foods flown in,which we normally wouldn't get bc they can't grow/survive in the natural environment where we live. Our (gut) physiologies probably aren't adapted to eat these 'strange foods' on a daily basis.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

.

Interesting, when I first started my health journey. I practically lived off CO as a cooking oil, it made me feel warm etc.
The past couple of years and especially lately I seem to experience some questionable results from eating even less than 1 tsp of CO total. I don't think it has anything to do with impurity, but neither do I know what's causing it.

Lately, I've come tto think that a local diet/foods are probably the best. I think throughout the years we've been spoiled by having all kinds of foods flown in,which we normally wouldn't get bc they can't grow/survive in the natural environment where we live.

Coconut oil has some PUFA in it, but it’s high saturated fat offsets it, but why not just avoid the PUFA’s all together by using using lard or ghee when we can. The last couple of times I have made French Fries, I did what originally McDonald’s did to make them famous, and fried my French fries in beef tallow and oh my goodness, they were the best fries I have ever tasted, even cold hours later they were just as good AND still crispy! I am over the coconut oil, unless I need a neutral flavor, like in my chocolate cake. Until lately I used tons of it for several years.

 

[RealNeat]

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Coconut oil has some PUFA in it, but it’s high saturated fat offsets it, but why not just avoid the PUFA’s all together by using using lard or ghee when we can. The last couple of times I have made French Fries, I did what originally McDonald’s did to make them famous, and fried my French fries in beef tallow and oh my goodness, they were the best fries I have ever tasted, even cold hours later they were just as good AND still crispy! I am over the coconut oil, unless I need a neutral flavor, like in my chocolate cake. Until lately I used tons of it for several years.

What about the oxidized cholesterol in ghee? It seems a lot of high heat cooking with animal products, unless it's a quick sear is actually pretty unhealthy. All sorts of compounds are formed that get progressively more dangerous. Also inhalation if these compounds is also dangerous.

Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't endorse Michael Greger he's a PETA shill but he has some good info regardless

Sources of Oxidized Cholesterol | NutritionFacts.org

Chicken, fish, and egg powder in processed foods present greater risk from cholesterol oxidation byproducts, but there are things you can do to reduce

nutritionfacts.org

Also advanced glycation end products are formed but a lot of the amino acids in meat are anti glycative so that at least has a partial remedy.

When you fry a starch in animal fat you get oxidized cholesterol AND acrylamide. Sometimes ok, but as a staple it's risky.

I used to be a raw vegan part of the reason was because of things like this being an overlooked issue. I found ways to incorporate meat safely but it's still a risk of one isn't careful.

I'd have to check with Ray but I think Ray refers a lot to conventional things when calling them "not good." Like conventional cheap crisco CO.

Organic has many more standards than conventional along with cold pressed or expeller pressed.

Aajonus Vonderplanitz recommend raw butter, I think more raw animal products (not all raw) is preferable. And if you start raw, you have more room to cook with it before oxidiation takes place. Sometimes the product is oxidized even before it hits the pan.

I'm sure animals who feed on their natural diets have more resilient fats. But something to think about.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

What about the oxidized cholesterol in ghee? It seems a lot of high heat cooking with animal products, unless it's a quick sear is actually pretty unhealthy. All sorts of compounds are formed that get progressively more dangerous. Also inhalation if these compounds is also dangerous.

I agree. Wouldn’t you agree that anything cooked on high heat is no good?

 

[RealNeat]

I agree. Wouldn’t you agree that anything cooked on high heat is no good?

I guess it depends. You'd have to weigh the neutralization of certain compounds with the damage being done. Cooking vegetables on a simmer as per Ray has good reasons. But animal products have no considerable anti nutrients, animal "anti nutrients" are the effort we used to take in hunting them with the potential of being killed or starving in pursuit.

 

[RealNeat]

banannas and pineapple supposedly raise serotonin. coconut oil can apparently cause digestive issues, has potential allergenicity, and has some sort of 5-AR inhibiting properties as well? normally PUFA has 5AR inhibiting effects, so I am not sure what in coconut oil causes it, it seems to be something besides the extremely miniscule amount of PUFA in it since milkfat and beef tallow dont have the 5AR inhibition.

are there side effects to consuming all these tropical fruits and food items that you need to also live in a tropical environment to properly withstand? if we aren't living in a tropical environment should we avoid coconut oil, bananas, macadamia oil, pineapples, etc and instead focus on other low PUFA high SFA foods like beef and dairy for fat/protein sources, and only locally grown fruits/honey etc? if you're actually living in a tropical environment you would handle those foods differently than if you weren't there. in the colder areas they still had access to most animal sourced products, honey and some fruits.

We are living in a tropical environment, no matter if you live in the tropics or Alaska. Your body should be 98.6 degrees, that's pretty tropical.

I think in modern living we are even more tropical as per our climate controlled everything. I think people of the past could eat more PUFA in cold climates and actually not get affected as much as modern humans. Almost always colder, more sleep during winter because fuel is expensive (wood etc) and probably minimal movement unless hunting. Was it optimal? No, but they knew that and did the best they could.

Atom Bergstrom talks about cold water fish doing better with less PUFA too, it affects them even though they need it. Interesting topic.

Read the book "Nourishing Traditional Diets" by Sally Fallon, it's pretty awesome.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I guess it depends. You'd have to weigh the neutralization of certain compounds with the damage being done. Cooking vegetables on a simmer as per Ray has good reasons. But animal products have no considerable anti nutrients, animal "anti nutrients" are the effort we used to take in hunting them with the potential of being killed or starving in pursuit.

Well that is a whole other topic, I thought we we were talking about oils, and the lesser evil, and then heat got thrown in, and now starving.

 

[RealNeat]

banannas and pineapple supposedly raise serotonin. coconut oil can apparently cause digestive issues, has potential allergenicity, and has some sort of 5-AR inhibiting properties as well? normally PUFA has 5AR inhibiting effects, so I am not sure what in coconut oil causes it, it seems to be something besides the extremely miniscule amount of PUFA in it since milkfat and beef tallow dont have the 5AR inhibition.

are there side effects to consuming all these tropical fruits and food items that you need to also live in a tropical environment to properly withstand? if we aren't living in a tropical environment should we avoid coconut oil, bananas, macadamia oil, pineapples, etc and instead focus on other low PUFA high SFA foods like beef and dairy for fat/protein sources, and only locally grown fruits/honey etc? if you're actually living in a tropical environment you would handle those foods differently than if you weren't there. in the colder areas they still had access to most animal sourced products, honey and some fruits.

I will say that there are things we may not be considering. The strong sun in the tropics may be having an antagonistic affect on some of the unfavorable compounds in tropical food, the interaction with the external sun and its biochemical modification of the body may be an avenue by which there may be a mismatch with these foods. Deuterium content of food is also something to consider but that a big can of worms with good threads dedicated to it here and on Jack Kruse Forum.

 

[RealNeat]

Well that is a whole other topic, I thought we we were talking about oils, and the lesser evil, and then heat got thrown in, and now starving.

I'm not really following. I didn't mention starvation? You asked if anything high heat is bad and I think there is context. High heat cooking with water is only 212 degrees depending on altitude as opposed to oil, or dry heat.

 

[parallax]

If one can get ones hands on quality tropical foods, if one enjoys them, and if eating them causes no discomfort or gastrointestinal issues, I think heck yes we should eat them. Some of them I eat liberally year around, while others I eat seasonally. For example some Annonaceous fruits are high in unique fatty acid amides which I feel are very healthful to consume once in a while and probably unhealthy to consume continuously.

 

[Dutchie]

.
Coconut oil has some PUFA in it, but it’s high saturated fat offsets it, but why not just avoid the PUFA’s all together by using using lard or ghee when we can. The last couple of times I have made French Fries, I did what originally McDonald’s did to make them famous, and fried my French fries in beef tallow and oh my goodness, they were the best fries I have ever tasted, even cold hours later they were just as good AND still crispy! I am over the coconut oil, unless I need a neutral flavor, like in my chocolate cake. Until lately I used tons of it for several years.

I don't think Pufa is to blame here either, bc CO hardly has any. In fact I think ghee/butter and tallow contain an equal amount of pufas, if not more.
Besides even less than 1 tsp CO would hardly give me pufas.
I haven't made fries in beef tallow, maybe I should try it a time. (I don't have anything to deepfry in and I also find it a bit costly to waste so much tallow for deep frying.)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'm not really following. I didn't mention starvation? You asked if anything high heat is bad and I think there is context. High heat cooking with water is only 212 degrees depending on altitude as opposed to oil, or dry heat.

I took “starving in pursuit” as a new avenue. I agree boiling is best as is low heat, but I thought we were talking oils.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I don't think Pufa is to blame here either, bc CO hardly has any. In fact I think ghee/butter and tallow contain an equal amount of pufas, if not more.
Besides even less than 1 tsp CO would hardly give me pufas.
I haven't made fries in beef tallow, maybe I should try it a time. (I don't have anything to deepfry in and I also find it a bit costly to waste so much tallow for deep frying.)

Ray Peat is the one that pointed out the PUFA’s in coconut oil and squashing the fear with it’s saturated content, and coconut oils have a half gram per tablespoon.

Mc Donald’s fries have never been the same since switching to vegetable oils. You gotta try beef tallow!