Serotonin Removal?

[bradley]

Peatarian, how much Naltrexone were you taking? Morning or night?

 

[peatarian]

As I wrote earlier:

The naltrexone is best administered when you crush a pill and dissolve it in water. You then use a syringe. I have been using 4,5 mg a day.

This is the dosage suggested by Dr. Bihari. I used it at night but sometimes I switched for non medical reasons. I never noticed a difference.

 

[charlie]

Whats the deal with a syringe? Why not just drink it?

 

[peatarian]

One pill contains 50 to 250mg. You have to stick to the recommended dosage as accurately as possible. Which is 4,5 mg. I bought the 250mg pills since they were a lot less expensive.
But how do you want to get 4,5 mg out of 250 mg?

 

[peatarian]

Just to be clear: You use it ORALLY! The syringe is for measurement only.

 

[charlie]

Ok, thank you for clarification. :)

 

[Birdie]

I've been using a dropper to measure my naltrexone. Not nearly as accurate. The syringe is a good idea. I started with 1.5 mg and am up to almost 3 mg. My understanding is that the dose can vary from person to person. I'm using it for Fibromyalgia. I seem to recall a 3.5 mg dose recommended for that. Perhaps because I've not worked up to 3.5 mg yet, I've noticed only a small improvement. It is so hard to judge these things. When I get to the right dose, then, I can judge better whether it is helping. But, I will assume that my serotonin is lowered at any rate.

 

[Birdie]

The taste is horrible. I put it into a little cold herbal tea which helps.

 

[nwo2012]

nwo2012: Are you planning on using both at the same time?
I started with 2 mg of ondansetron a day and went up to 8 mg a day (twice 4 mg). I think it's important to not suddenly stop using it but gradually use less and less. I didn't have withdrawal symptoms (like a sudden rush of serotonin after stopping ondansetron) but I have heard about it from others. Just to warn you.

The naltrexone is best administered when you crush a pill and dissolve it in water. You then use a syringe. I have been using 4,5 mg a day.

I wish you great results.

No , was going to try naloxone first (dont have access to naltrexone). Then maybe ondansetron but Peat is more cautious about using that.
Im trying to improve my sleep time/quality.

RP

I've known of people who took naloxone orally, 3 or 4 milligrams daily for 3 or 4 days, who felt better and slept better. I haven't had experience with ondansetron, but I think it's good to be cautious, maybe comparing it with cyproheptadine and tianeptine.

 

[nwo2012]

It's funny because we use ondansetron at work as an antiemetic. And the naloxone............you have never seen anything like it. Someone gets narced on opioids and you hit them with IV naloxone.......they instantly open their eyes with the look of an animal in the headlights of a car!

 

[peatarian]

Have you read the new newsletter? RP writes about exactly that. He compares the effects of estrogen on hot flushes in menopausal women to rats with morphine withdrawal and naloxone. Very interesting!

 

[peatarian]

I've been using a dropper to measure my naltrexone. Not nearly as accurate. The syringe is a good idea. I started with 1.5 mg and am up to almost 3 mg. My understanding is that the dose can vary from person to person. I'm using it for Fibromyalgia. I seem to recall a 3.5 mg dose recommended for that. Perhaps because I've not worked up to 3.5 mg yet, I've noticed only a small improvement. It is so hard to judge these things. When I get to the right dose, then, I can judge better whether it is helping. But, I will assume that my serotonin is lowered at any rate.

'There are people who advocate the use of tryptophan supplementation or other means to increase serotonin in the tissues as a treatment for the fibromyalgia syndrome, but the evidence increasingly suggests that excessive serotonin, interfering with muscle mitochondria, is a major factor in the development of that syndrome.'

'Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function.'

'Malnutrition, and specifically protein deficiency, produces an inflammatory state that involves extreme serotonin dominance. Stress or malnutrition prenatally or in infancy leads to extreme serotonin dominance in adulthood. Other functions of tryptophan are reduced, as more of it is turned into serotonin.'
(from Ray Peat http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml)

'Later, in a more mature person, chronically fatigued and painful muscles that at one time would have been diagnosed as rheumatism, may be diagnosed as fibromyalgia. Most doctors are reluctant to prescribe thyroid supplements for the problem, but the association of elevated prolactin with the muscle disorder is now generally recognized.'

'Since aldosterone contributes to fibrosis of the heart and kidneys (nephrosclerosis), progesterone, the "antifibromatogenic steroid," should be helpful for those problems that have been considered irreversible.'

'Pregnenolone can sometimes very quickly allow swollen tissues to release their water. This function is probably closely related to its antifibromatogenic function, since swelling and leaking set the stage for fibrosis.'

Birdie, I'm sure you've already read the quotes above but just to make sure: you are using thyroid and pregnenolone, if you are a woman progest-e-complex and eating enough protein during the day? Lots of sugar will probably help you, too and lots of salt will help your adrenal gland recover. Progesterone would enlarge your thyroid gland and by that increase your immune system. If you have any way of getting ondansetrone I would highly recommend it. I never noticed immediate effects of nalexone on serotonin but the effects of ondansetrone where amazing and immediate. I am not aware of any severe side effects. As I said before you shouldn't stop using ondansetrone at once but decrease the dosage slowly.

What might also help you is taking baths with aspirin in the water. I usually use 10 times 500 mg in a bathtub. It was and is used to treat rheuma patients.

 

[nwo2012]

Have you read the new newsletter? RP writes about exactly that. He compares the effects of estrogen on hot flushes in menopausal women to rats with morphine withdrawal and naloxone. Very interesting!

Lol. Going to skip the naloxone. I can only get the IV stuff at 0.4mg/ml. To take 2mg (orally) would mean ingesting 20mg parabens, RP said it will be very allergenic at that amount! Bah. So Ive bagged some 4mg ondansetrons instead. Will try one pre-bed (this morning after nightshift).

 

[narouz]

nwo--

Did Peat ever give you a list of lab tests to have done?

 

[nwo2012]

nwo--

Did Peat ever give you a list of lab tests to have done?

I only ever hinted at getting TSH rechecked to aim for under 1 but he didnt jump on it as being important. He never suggested any at all.
Danny Roddy has a list he recommends and I think they were shaped by his constant questioning of RP and others that have emailed RP.

 

[narouz]

nwo--

Did Peat ever give you a list of lab tests to have done?

I only ever hinted at getting TSH rechecked to aim for under 1 but he didnt jump on it as being important. He never suggested any at all.
Danny Roddy has a list he recommends and I think they were shaped by his constant questioning of RP and others that have emailed RP.

Yes, NWO--I've seen that Roddy list.
But I've wondered whether they might be, somewhat,
shaped around Roddy's focus on Hair.
And if you try to do all of those tests...that's a lot of dough.

Interesting how he did not, as you say, suggest tests for you.
It would seem to be his standard operating procedure.
Sometimes I hear him asking those who consult with him
about tests previously done.
Kind of surprising.

 

[peatarian]

nwo--

Did Peat ever give you a list of lab tests to have done?

Interesting how he did not, as you say, suggest tests for you.
It would seem to be his standard operating procedure.
Sometimes I hear him asking those who consult with him
about tests previously done.
Kind of surprising.

Really? He never suggested any tests to me.
I sent him some later but he never asked.
Nor any of the other people I know asked him for help.

 

[narouz]

I wrote:

Interesting how he did not, as you say, suggest tests for you.
It would seem to be his standard operating procedure.
Sometimes I hear him asking those who consult with him
about tests previously done.
Kind of surprising.

Peatarian wrote:

Really? He never suggested any tests to me.
I sent him some later but he never asked.
Nor any of the other people I know asked him for help.

Sorry, I see how I was not clear.
What I meant was that
NOT suggesting lab tests seems to be Peat's standard operating procedure.

It does surprise me.
I wonder why he doesn't?
I guess he really doesn't see them a necessary in most cases....

 

[peatarian]

Ah, okay, I must have misread. Thank you for clarifying.
I think RP values some data. But he knows that many tests are flawed and most of them are invented only to help pharma companies sell drugs to alter the data.
There is a good documentary, 'House of Numbers', in which they talk about the Western Blot and the ELISA test and how inaccurate and basically useless they are. One scientist says later: 'They are among medicine's better tests.'
For instance Ray Peat suggests taking your temperature rather than having your TSH measured. If your temperature in the morning is constantly good it's very unlikely you have an infection for a long time so your TSH is most likely okay.
I think he values the prolactin test because it gives you an estimate about your serotonin level.
But all the other data usually checked in laboratories will not change his recommendations. He will give the same advice about PUFA and about light and about sugar and salt and thyroid whether your lymphocytes are 7 or 11.
If you consider that all these tests are based on a completely wrong idea of how cells work they cannot be very useful over all.
Every time I did research about a specific test I found out that the numbers can't be trusted, that it isn't accurate and that it's only done because it's always been done.
I know that some people send Ray Peat x-rays or mammography and ask for his opinion on bone density and such. Of course the first thing they will hear is about the danger of radioactive radiation.

 

[narouz]

Ah, okay, I must have misread. Thank you for clarifying.
I think RP values some data. But he knows that many tests are flawed and most of them are invented only to help pharma companies sell drugs to alter the data.
There is a good documentary, 'House of Numbers', in which they talk about the Western Blot and the ELISA test and how inaccurate and basically useless they are. One scientist says later: 'They are among medicine's better tests.'
For instance Ray Peat suggests taking your temperature rather than having your TSH measured. If your temperature in the morning is constantly good it's very unlikely you have an infection for a long time so your TSH is most likely okay.
I think he values the prolactin test because it gives you an estimate about your serotonin level.
But all the other data usually checked in laboratories will not change his recommendations. He will give the same advice about PUFA and about light and about sugar and salt and thyroid whether your lymphocytes are 7 or 11.
If you consider that all these tests are based on a completely wrong idea of how cells work they cannot be very useful over all.
Every time I did research about a specific test I found out that the numbers can't be trusted, that it isn't accurate and that it's only done because it's always been done.
I know that some people send Ray Peat x-rays or mammography and ask for his opinion on bone density and such. Of course the first thing they will hear is about the danger of radioactive radiation.

Now that's interesting--
about the prolactin test, I mean.
It would be nice to see if there are any others he places value in.