Regaining weight post diet/exercise due to lowered metabolism by increased PUFA in cardiolipin

[youngsinatra]

I follow along here at the Peat forum and also keep track of Brad Marshal's videos and posts. There's a nice coincidence here where his latest video speaks directly to the issue of how to resaturate our tissues with coconut oil. In the video he says that the medium chain fatty acids, specifically C8 and C10, are burned for energy relatively quickly. The long chain fats, C16 and C18, are desaturated and stored as oleic in our bodies. Lastly, the "intermediate" length fatty acids, C12 and C14, are apparently stored. Not only are they stored, but in mouse studies they push out PUFA and MUFA and can resaturate our tissues.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUBPlGXjtk&t=3s


I started a simpler mono diet a few weeks ago to try and get my thyroid revved up again without taking any directly. OJ, fat-free milk, a raw carrot, fresh oranges or pineapple, baked potatoes that are then peeled and fried in CO, and hot sauce for flavor. I just measured this morning and confirmed that I am consuming about 30 grams of coconut oil a day along with around 1kg of fried potato. Cronometer puts the oil at around 330 calories and the potatoes at another 1100 calories. I need the OJ, carrot, and fruit to bump my numbers and even then the calories are too low at about 2k per day. I'm 6', 210 lbs, male, 50, so my BMR is about 2600/day. I'm not hungry though.

I am also taking 1.5 grams (divided) of crushed black cumin. I noticed an early heat effect but it has diminished. I also take ~250mg of niacinamide (divided) per day. Waking temps are 97.5 and daytime temps hover around 96.8 all day.

So far over the last 2 weeks my weight has moved up about 3 pounds. I'll keep this up for another month and see where I end up. If I push 220, I'm gonna be pissed. :)

You could try high stearic acid fat sources like beef tallow or butter. Some say their metabolism went way up with even supplemental stearic acid.

 

[cremes]

You could try high stearic acid fat sources like beef tallow or butter. Some say their metabolism went way up with even supplemental stearic acid.

I'm dangerously close to a thread hijack here so I apologize in advance.

Prior to switching to coconut oil 3 weeks ago, my main fat source was milk (1%) and butter (the good stuff). My waking temps weren't any better. This is why I'm trying the black cumin seed crushed (2g per day) since there are other threads here touting its pro-thyroid effects. I'll admit that my hands feel warmer more regularly now than they did weeks ago, but I've only been trying this for less than a week.

 

[MikeyFitz]

It's possible that my fat calories are too high. I punched everything into cronometer to get a reading and this is what it shows.

View attachment 50370I can try upping the sugar or honey, but I'm just not hungry. Yet my weight isn't moving.

A year ago I just would have done a 3-day fast but that likely contributed to my broken metabolism. I'm just going to keep on trucking here... I'll keep calories as high as I can for as long as I can and see where the chips fall. One of the benefits of being older is stubborness; I have that in spades now.

Very nice job of tracking your food.

Yes, I would say that if your temperature is consistently low and you are not hungry, you definitely have a metabolism issue.

Sometimes we have to eat more food first to prove to our bodies that we are not in an environment of scarcity.

Even if we're not hungry.

Then when we supply our bodies with enough energy by eating enough calories, the body feels that it has sufficient energy to support muscle and other tissues.

Think of it this way.....we need to put the wood into the stove before it gives us heat.

We can't stand over the stove and say "Give me heat and then I'll give you some wood."



Looking at your percentages, it also looks like your protein target is good but you're only actually getting about 43 grams in.


To summarize, I would recommend staying at the same calories for a week but lowering the fats and upping the simple carbs (honey & sugar).

Then slowly up the calories every day by adding more simple carbs until you reach your target.

Let me know if you need anything.


Mike

 

[cremes]

Very nice job of tracking your food.

Yes, I would say that if your temperature is consistently low and you are not hungry, you definitely have a metabolism issue.

Sometimes we have to eat more food first to prove to our bodies that we are not in an environment of scarcity.

Even if we're not hungry.

Yeah, I understand. I've been lurking long enough on these forums to get that message loud & clear. I'll keep at it. My Oura tells me my caloric burn is about 2400 calories per day right now; I believe it. So I'll throw in a little ice cream, honey, or other carbs to boost it another 3-400 calories.

To summarize, I would recommend staying at the same calories for a week but lowering the fats and upping the simple carbs (honey & sugar).

Then slowly up the calories every day by adding more simple carbs until you reach your target.

Let me know if you need anything.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[Mitchell777]

I have never found evidence to support that claim. From the studies I've found, like this one (children under 18 with heart disease), had preserved tetralinoleoyl CL species compared to their health counterparts.
Thyroid hormone has also been shown to enhance cardiolipin production and incorporate unsaturated fat into it:
"Treatment with thyroxine resulted in a 1.8-fold increase (P<0.025) in [1-(14)C]linoleate and a 1.7-fold increase (P<0.025) in [1-(14)C]oleate incorporated into cardiolipin in perfused hearts, compared with controls. The mechanism for the elevation in incorporation of unsaturated fatty acids into cardiolipin was a 1. 6-fold (P<0.025) increase in mitochondrial monolysocardiolipin acyltransferase activity." (R)

Weight gain after 25 is due to inactivity and eating more. Who after 25 are as active as they used to be before 25? Or eat the same diet?
PUFA (e.g. arachidonic acid) in cardiolipin makes it more fluid, which makes the ETC leaky. It makes it less effective, not more effective. Linoleic acid rich cardiolipin makes the mitochondria more effective aka restores proper mitochondrial function.
I'm not saying to eat a lot of linoleic acid. As I pointed out earlier, giving animals 100% hydrogenated peanut oil restored the linoleic content in their cardiolipin.

If anything, their study shows that not having cardiolipin protects against obesity.

I understand that uncoupling is key to fat loss, but nothing that we do is going to give us any phenomenal results. DNP works because it enhances energy out. Nothing else comes close.

“weight gain after 25 is due inactivity and eating more” is grossly over simplified. Unless I have misunderstood you, then I am surprised you have reduced fat gain to quite literally nothing more than eating more and moving less, regardless of the multitude of intricacies which play a role in lipogenicty, metabolic rate etc.

 

[MikeyFitz]

“weight gain after 25 is due inactivity and eating more” is grossly over simplified. Unless I have misunderstood you, then I am surprised you have reduced fat gain to quite literally nothing more than eating more and moving less, regardless of the multitude of intricacies which play a role in lipogenicty, metabolic rate etc.

Not pushing back but I politely disagree with your statement "weight gain after 25 is due to inactivity and eating more."
Hear me out, please.
I personally do not find that eating less and moving more is beneficial for losing fat, gaining muscle, and being healthy.
I have found the opposite, actually.
Eating more simple to digest, high energy foods, exercising less, and laying around more keeps me leaner and more muscular.

I am in my 60th year on this planet and I am the leanest and most muscular that I've ever been.
I sit at a desk job all day, sometimes for 12 or 14 hours at a time.
Some days the most activity I get is a walk around the giant parking lot at the corporate offices.
Every day I eat tons of simple carbohydrates from the time I get up until the minute I go to sleep at night.
I eat moderate amounts of very lean animal proteins.
I do ZERO steady state cardio.
I do not do any bicycling or long distance running.
My workouts consist of lifting heavy weights in a gym for about 45 minutes, 3-4 days per week.
I do not have a consistent workout schedule.
If a body part is sore or I am tired, I do not exercise that day.

I know a lot of skinny people who restrict calories but they also do not have a lot of muscle and have very low libido and don't sleep well.
That formula is a recipe for disaster in the long term.

Nature does not reward scarcity, lack, and low energy.

Organisms thrive in high energy, low-stress environments where they are intermittently and briefly stressed or their limits tested.

Caloric restriction paired with lots of movement is a stressful environment that does not produce a healthy, fertile organism in the long-term.

 

[Hans]

“weight gain after 25 is due inactivity and eating more” is grossly over simplified. Unless I have misunderstood you, then I am surprised you have reduced fat gain to quite literally nothing more than eating more and moving less, regardless of the multitude of intricacies which play a role in lipogenicty, metabolic rate etc.

From my research, all other things are vastly overblown. Hypothyroidism, prolactin, cortisol, etc., make you tired and eat more...weight gain.
Most people under 25 are moving about, doing things, not married, low-ish stress, too poor to eat too much, etc. After 25, they're done with college, get married, get children, start eating out, sleep less, stress more, move less, etc.
Moving less and eating more = weight gain. Yes, they might develop nutritional deficiencies and other issues due to their diet and lifestyle, but once they fix that, things will likely restore themselves.
Most people just don't have the right intuition to eat right. People started gaining weight with the introduction of highly processed, palatable foods. There is a good study showing that people who coming highly processed foods generally consume 500 more calories than people who don't. Add that up over a few years and they get obese.
If someone adds a boatload of butter to their potatoes and eats ribeyes all day, they will gain weight (if eaten in a surplus). Remove the butter and they start losing weight. It's just how it works.

 

[Hans]

Not pushing back but I politely disagree with your statement "weight gain after 25 is due to inactivity and eating more."
Hear me out, please.
I personally do not find that eating less and moving more is beneficial for losing fat, gaining muscle, and being healthy.
I have found the opposite, actually.
Eating more simple to digest, high energy foods, exercising less, and laying around more keeps me leaner and more muscular.

I am in my 60th year on this planet and I am the leanest and most muscular that I've ever been.
I sit at a desk job all day, sometimes for 12 or 14 hours at a time.
Some days the most activity I get is a walk around the giant parking lot at the corporate offices.
Every day I eat tons of simple carbohydrates from the time I get up until the minute I go to sleep at night.
I eat moderate amounts of very lean animal proteins.
I do ZERO steady state cardio.
I do not do any bicycling or long distance running.
My workouts consist of lifting heavy weights in a gym for about 45 minutes, 3-4 days per week.
I do not have a consistent workout schedule.
If a body part is sore or I am tired, I do not exercise that day.

I know a lot of skinny people who restrict calories but they also do not have a lot of muscle and have very low libido and don't sleep well.
That formula is a recipe for disaster in the long term.

Nature does not reward scarcity, lack, and low energy.

Organisms thrive in high energy, low-stress environments where they are intermittently and briefly stressed or their limits tested.

Caloric restriction paired with lots of movement is a stressful environment that does not produce a healthy, fertile organism in the long-term.

I'm happy that you found something that works for you. I always suggest people do the same and fine what works for them.
But what I would like to know is what your BMR and NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) are and how many calories you eat over the week. Chances are your NEAT will be quite high and total calories not that high. They will be balancing each other out.

 

[MikeyFitz]

I'm happy that you found something that works for you. I always suggest people do the same and fine what works for them.
But what I would like to know is what your BMR and NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) are and how many calories you eat over the week. Chances are your NEAT will be quite high and total calories not that high. They will be balancing each other out.

great points, Hans.

I don't count calories at this time so I can't quantify what the exact energy input is.
I could start using Cronometer again.
When I was doing that a few years ago, I was very strict with measuring my food and it became a burden.
So I pretty much eyeball what I'm eating and try to do what Frank Zane used to do....eat until you are about 80% full.
I never eat until full.

My heart rate and temperature are never low.
Even when I first wake up my temp is always at 98 or higher.
My heart rate is always around 80.

I am 6'1" around 210 lbs. and 59 yrs of age.

Here is what the standard online BMR calculator says.

I would estimate that I'm eating around 2500-2600 calories per day.

 

[cremes]

My heart rate and temperature are never low.
Even when I first wake up my temp is always at 98 or higher.
My heart rate is always around 80.

I am 6'1" around 210 lbs. and 59 yrs of age.

I want to be you. I’m 50 so I hope it doesn’t take 9 years to achieve.

 

[Hans]

great points, Hans.

I don't count calories at this time so I can't quantify what the exact energy input is.
I could start using Cronometer again.
When I was doing that a few years ago, I was very strict with measuring my food and it became a burden.
So I pretty much eyeball what I'm eating and try to do what Frank Zane used to do....eat until you are about 80% full.
I never eat until full.

My heart rate and temperature are never low.
Even when I first wake up my temp is always at 98 or higher.
My heart rate is always around 80.

I am 6'1" around 210 lbs. and 59 yrs of age.

Here is what the standard online BMR calculator says.

I would estimate that I'm eating around 2500-2600 calories per day.

View attachment 50444

You practice good habits!
What does your diet look like?

 

[MikeyFitz]

You practice good habits!
What does your diet look like?

Thank you, sir.

I eat a lot of very ripe fruit and sugar all day, every day.
I usually do fruit mono-meals covered with organic sugar.

Throughout the morning and early afternoon today I ate the following:
2 pounds of frozen mango chunks
32 oz of Greek Non-fat yogurt covered in organic brown sugar
I put about half the 1 pound bag of sugar on the fruit and the other half on the yogurt.

540 Calories of mangos (126g carbs, 0g fat, 6g protein)
550 Calories of Greek Yogurt (35g carbs, 0g fat, 108g protein)
1710 Calories of Organic Sugar (456g carbs, 0g fat, 0g protein)

That keeps me powered up all day.
I also usually sip a large 16oz Red Bull throughout the day which is 210 calories.

After my workout, I have 80g of very well-cooked sticky Sushi rice, 4 oz of sauteed chicken breast with a little chicken livers in a tbsp of coconut oil and an orange marmalade sauce.
I do not know the calorie breakdown for that meal, but we could work together and figure it out.

See attached pictures of the fruit, sugar, and yogurt I eat.

So the fruit, sugar, yogurt and Red Bull I consume throughout the day is about 3,000 calories.

Then add the post-workout chicken and rice meal and I am probably consuming close to 3,800 calories on workout days.

 

[Hans]

Thank you, sir.

I eat a lot of very ripe fruit and sugar all day, every day.
I usually do fruit mono-meals covered with organic sugar.

Throughout the morning and early afternoon today I ate the following:
2 pounds of frozen mango chunks
32 oz of Greek Non-fat yogurt covered in organic brown sugar
I put about half the 1 pound bag of sugar on the fruit and the other half on the yogurt.

540 Calories of mangos (126g carbs, 0g fat, 6g protein)
550 Calories of Greek Yogurt (35g carbs, 0g fat, 108g protein)
1710 Calories of Organic Sugar (456g carbs, 0g fat, 0g protein)

That keeps me powered up all day.
I also usually sip a large 16oz Red Bull throughout the day which is 210 calories.

After my workout, I have 80g of very well-cooked sticky Sushi rice, 4 oz of sauteed chicken breast with a little chicken livers in a tbsp of coconut oil and an orange marmalade sauce.
I do not know the calorie breakdown for that meal, but we could work together and figure it out.

See attached pictures of the fruit, sugar, and yogurt I eat.

So the fruit, sugar, yogurt and Red Bull I consume throughout the day is about 3,000 calories.

Then add the post-workout chicken and rice meal and I am probably consuming close to 3,800 calories on workout days.

So you're basically eating very low fat? Do you have to snack all the time or is your satiety on point? When I was eating really low fat I struggled to stabilize my blood sugar, my mood wasn't as good and sexual function was neither.

 

[Vinny]

Not pushing back but I politely disagree with your statement "weight gain after 25 is due to inactivity and eating more."
Hear me out, please.
I personally do not find that eating less and moving more is beneficial for losing fat, gaining muscle, and being healthy.
I have found the opposite, actually.
Eating more simple to digest, high energy foods, exercising less, and laying around more keeps me leaner and more muscular.

I am in my 60th year on this planet and I am the leanest and most muscular that I've ever been.
I sit at a desk job all day, sometimes for 12 or 14 hours at a time.
Some days the most activity I get is a walk around the giant parking lot at the corporate offices.
Every day I eat tons of simple carbohydrates from the time I get up until the minute I go to sleep at night.
I eat moderate amounts of very lean animal proteins.
I do ZERO steady state cardio.
I do not do any bicycling or long distance running.
My workouts consist of lifting heavy weights in a gym for about 45 minutes, 3-4 days per week.
I do not have a consistent workout schedule.
If a body part is sore or I am tired, I do not exercise that day.

I know a lot of skinny people who restrict calories but they also do not have a lot of muscle and have very low libido and don't sleep well.
That formula is a recipe for disaster in the long term.

Nature does not reward scarcity, lack, and low energy.

Organisms thrive in high energy, low-stress environments where they are intermittently and briefly stressed or their limits tested.

Caloric restriction paired with lots of movement is a stressful environment that does not produce a healthy, fertile organism in the long-term.

Awesome. I`m also very glad that you found your way. Must be an amazing feeling....

Have you ever been obese?
Also, do you remember when did you notice adipose tissue loss after you committed to low fat eating style? I mean, how long did it take?
Thanks

 

[Vinny]

I’m 50 so I hope it doesn’t take 9 years to achieve.

Let`s hope, bro. I`m a half century old as well.

 

[Vinny]

DNP works because it enhances energy out. Nothing else comes close.

Hi Hans,
Am I getting it right that you`re not against using DNP for fat loss? Or I misinterpreted it?

 

[MikeyFitz]

So you're basically eating very low fat? Do you have to snack all the time or is your satiety on point? When I was eating really low fat I struggled to stabilize my blood sugar, my mood wasn't as good and sexual function was neither.

Great questions

when I was eating starches during the day, which are higher glycemic, I had a harder time keeping my blood sugar stable.

Eating ripe fruit and sugar and low fat protein suits me much better.

My mood is good, I have high energy, and I am able to focus on work.

Low fat seems to work better for me along with high simple carbs.

 

[Hans]

Hi Hans,
Am I getting it right that you`re not against using DNP for fat loss? Or I misinterpreted it?

It's a safe compound if used smartly. Most people who say it's dangerous are the ones who get impatient and abuse it.

 

[Hans]

Great questions

when I was eating starches during the day, which are higher glycemic, I had a harder time keeping my blood sugar stable.

Eating ripe fruit and sugar and low fat protein suits me much better.

My mood is good, I have high energy, and I am able to focus on work.

Low fat seems to work better for me along with high simple carbs.

That's good to hear. Do you eat meals or just snack during the day?

 

[MikeyFitz]

That's good to hear. Do you eat meals or just snack during the day?

I would say the food thoughout the day is split up into 4 - 5 portions from 6:00 AM

Awesome. I`m also very glad that you found your way. Must be an amazing feeling....

Have you ever been obese?
Also, do you remember when did you notice adipose tissue loss after you committed to low fat eating style? I mean, how long did it take?
Thanks

I was a chubby kid in grade school.

Then I stretched out in my teens and got very lean.

I can say that I know I was always a very high carb person and refused to eat veggies. Fruit, dairy, oatmeal, rice, potatoes, eggs, chicken, and beef.

I still eat very well cooked starches but usually only the last meal of the day.

I am 59 now and I have been very lean like this for most of my adult life.

but it's only been in about the past 10 years that I cut back on starches so it's been easier to maintain and my performance has been better.