Pneumonia symptoms kicked in after taking high dose of vitamin K

[tastyfood]

I have been dealing with shortness of breath and chest pain for the last week. I stopped taking aspirin as I think it caused some bronchitis.

I was experimenting with upping vitamin K since I also took some minicycline, and the high dose sent me to a pneumonia-like state almost immediately. I took 40mg of vitamin K orally, and the night before that the same.

Any connection or just pure coincidence? I went from 0 to 100 pretty much. I was feeling ok and all of a sudden I felt like I need to go to the ER.

 

[Nick]

I have been dealing with shortness of breath and chest pain for the last week. I stopped taking aspirin as I think it caused some bronchitis.

I was experimenting with upping vitamin K since I also took some minicycline, and the high dose sent me to a pneumonia-like state almost immediately. I took 40mg of vitamin K orally, and the night before that the same.

Any connection or just pure coincidence? I went from 0 to 100 pretty much. I was feeling ok and all of a sudden I felt like I need to go to the ER.

I get very bad wheezing with supplemental vitamin K, I even get a bad effect from just 1mg orally or 3mg topically. I don't think it's from any other ingredients or impurities as I had the same effect from oral and topical application and both Thorne and Idealabs with olive oil solvent.

 

[tastyfood]

I get very bad wheezing with supplemental vitamin K, I even get a bad effect from just 1mg orally or 3mg topically. I don't think it's from any other ingredients or impurities as I had the same effect from oral and topical application and both Thorne and Idealabs with olive oil solvent.

Thanks for the comment. On top of the extreme wheezing, I suddenly got a fever, high pulse, and lower oxygen saturation than usual (around 95). I was already having issues this week but I wonder if the too high vitamin K sent me over the edge.

 

[tastyfood]

@Nick I saw a few comments in the forum about people having worse pneumonia symptoms at night. Is that your experience as well?

For me, over the last 5 days, I would be feeling well during the day, or see massive improvement in the morning, and then things would turn for the much worse before bed.

 

[Nick]

@Nick I saw a few comments in the forum about people having worse pneumonia symptoms at night. Is that your experience as well?

For me, over the last 5 days, I would be feeling well during the day, or see massive improvement in the morning, and then things would turn for the much worse before bed.

Yes for me the wheezing would get much worse at night, during the day it would also get worse with any exercise. I never had any fever to my knowledge though, not sure about pulse either. I have had more minor respiratory issues intermittently without supplemental vitamin K but taking supplemental K makes it 5-10 times worse.

 

[tastyfood]

@Nick I went to the doctor and it looks like it was just asthma exacerbation. It occurred to me that since vitamin E helps with asthma, and it competes with vitamin K, perhaps taking megadoses of vitamin K is not desired.

 

[Makrosky]

I don't know but every time I get more than 10k IU Vit D3 x day for a few days I get some kind of infection. Not sure if coincidence or what. Weird. I mention it because D and K are related.

 

[tastyfood]

Looks like the fat soluble vitamins are not to be messed with in mega quantities, especially if you are dealing with some issues.

I was in the gutter after taking the 40mg of vitamin K. It must have depleted a lot of vitamin E and it gave me the worst asthma I've ever had.

 

[HeyThere]

I saw your similar post in the aspirin thread.

Again, look up symptoms of Salicylate Intolerance. I have it. Your symptoms are 100% spot on. Sounds like you overloaded yourself. By chance were your ears ringing.. any skin itching?

Maybe the K was just one more overload.

 

[tastyfood]

The K overload came many days later I stopped the aspirin but yes, that's a possibility.

My ears were not ringing, and that's what one of the things I was watching for.

 

[tastyfood]

@all in this thread.

Looks like this is why asthma is worse at night:

J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2003 Sep;112(3):513-7. Elevated serum melatonin is associated with the nocturnal worsening of asthma. Sutherland ER, Ellison MC, Kraft M, Martin RJ.​

 

[LLight]

I posted a topic once about a paper discussing that vitamin K could be used to make thrombin which can itself disrupt biofilm (it was in the intestine).

Edit: ok it was not specifically about vitamin K.

Active thrombin produced by the intestinal epithelium controls mucosal biofilms

Proteolytic homeostasis is important at mucosal surfaces, but its actors and their precise role in physiology are poorly understood. Here we report that healthy human and mouse colon epithelia are a major source of active thrombin. We show that mucosal ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

VIT K2 MK-4 increased calcification/stiffness?

RP: "Cooked greens, milk, cheese, and eggs are very good sources of K. The solvents used to extract vitamin K, for example from natto, often cause problems. The present vitamin K culture is the creation of marketing campaigns, and is causing a lot of harm."

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1971;41(2):180-8.
The relationship between the storage forms of vitamin K and dietary phylloquinone
in the dog.
Duello TJ, Matschiner JT.

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2):220-3.
Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not
dependent on gut bacteria.
Davidson RT, Foley AL, Engelke JA, Suttie JW.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
The ability of male rats to accumulate menaquinone-4 (MK-4) in tissues when fed a
vitamin K-deficient diet supplemented with intraperitoneal phylloquinone (K) as
the sole source of vitamin K for 14 d was assessed. In both conventionally housed
controls and gnotobiotic rats, supplementation with the equivalent of 1500 microg
vitamin K/kg diet increased (P < 0.001) tissue MK-4 concentrations above those of
controls fed a vitamin K-deficient diet. MK-4 concentrations were approximately 5
ng/g (11 pmol/g) in liver, 14 ng/g in heart, 17 ng/g in kidney, 50 ng/g in brain
and 250 ng/g in mandibular salivary glands of gnotobiotic rats. MK-4
concentrations in conventionally housed rats were higher than in gnotobiotic rats
in heart (P < 0.01), brain (P < 0.01) and kidney (P < 0.05) but lower in salivary
gland (P < 0.05). Cultures of a kidney-derived cell line (293) converted K to the
expoxide of MK-4 in a manner that was dependent on both time of incubation and
concentration of vitamin K in the media. A liver-derived cell line (H-35) was
less active in carrying out this conversion. These data offer conclusive proof
that the tissue-specific formation of MK-4 from K is a metabolic transformation
that does not require bacterial transformation to menadione as an intermediate in
the process.

Calif Med. 1970 Apr;112(4):65-7.
Don't use the wrong vitamin K.
Udall JA.
The emergency use of vitamin K is essentially limited to the reversal of
drug-induced hypoprothrombinemia. In patients with adequate liver function,
phytonadione acts promptly and predictably in this capacity whereas the
derivatives of menadione counteract coumarin drugs only slightly or not at all.
It is dangerous to rely on menadione analogues, and these drugs should be removed
from emergency room drug stores.

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:296721.
Vitamin K1 exerts antiproliferative effects and induces apoptosis in three
differently graded human colon cancer cell lines.
Orlando A(1), Linsalata M(1), Tutino V(2), D'Attoma B(1), Notarnicola M(2), Russo
F(1).
(1)Laboratory of Nutritional Pathophysiology, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
(2)Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
Vitamin K1 has been demonstrated as having anticancer potentiality mainly in
liver cancer cells. Beyond the reported mechanisms of cancer inhibition (cell
cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis), a possible control by vitamin K1 on
molecules affecting cell growth could be hypothesized. In the literature, few (if
any) data are available on its antitumor effects on colon cancer cells.
Therefore, the aims of the study were to investigate in three differently graded
human colon cancer cell lines (Caco-2, HT-29, and SW480) the effects of
increasing concentrations of vitamin K1 (from 10 μM to 200 μM) administered up to
72 h on (1) cell proliferation, (2) apoptosis with the possible involvement of
the MAPK pathway, and (3) polyamine biosynthesis. Vitamin K1 treatment caused a
significant antiproliferative effect and induced apoptosis in all the cell lines,
with the involvement of the MAPK pathway. A concomitant and significant decrease
in the polyamine biosynthesis occurred. This is the first study demonstrating a
significant polyamine decrease in addition to the antiproliferative and
proapoptotic effects following vitamin K1 administration to colon cancer cell
lines. Therapeutically, combinations of vitamin K1 with polyamine inhibitors
and/or analogues may represent a suitable option for chemoprevention and/or
treatment in future strategies for colorectal cancer management.

Scand J Gastroenterol. 2014 Jun;49(6):715-21.
Vitamin K1 attenuates bile duct ligation-induced liver fibrosis in rats.
Jiao K(1), Sun Q, Chen B, Li S, Lu J.
(1)Department of Laboratory Animal Science, School of Basic Medical Science,
Capital Medical University , Beijing, 100069 , China.
Vitamin K1 is used as a liver protection drug for cholestasis-induced liver
fibrosis in China, but the mechanism of vitamin K1's action in liver fibrosis is
unclear. In this study, a model of liver fibrosis was achieved via bile duct
ligation in rats. The rats were then injected with vitamin K1, and the levels of
serum aspartate aminotransferase, alanine transaminase, total bilirubin and the
fibrotic grade score, collagen content, the expressions of α-smooth muscle actin
(SMA) and cytokeratin 19 (CK19) were measured on day 28 after ligation. The
levels of the biochemical parameters, fibrotic score and collagen content were
significantly reduced by treatment with vitamin K1 in bile duct-ligated rats. In
addition, α-SMA and CK19 expression was significantly reduced by vitamin K1
treatment in bile duct-ligated rats. These results suggested that vitamin K1 may
attenuate liver fibrosis by inhibiting hepatic stellate cell activation in bile
duct-ligated rats.

 

[Validus]

VIT K2 MK-4 increased calcification/stiffness?

RP: "Cooked greens, milk, cheese, and eggs are very good sources of K. The solvents used to extract vitamin K, for example from natto, often cause problems. The present vitamin K culture is the creation of marketing campaigns, and is causing a lot of harm."

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1971;41(2):180-8.
The relationship between the storage forms of vitamin K and dietary phylloquinone
in the dog.
Duello TJ, Matschiner JT.

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2):220-3.
Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not
dependent on gut bacteria.
Davidson RT, Foley AL, Engelke JA, Suttie JW.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
The ability of male rats to accumulate menaquinone-4 (MK-4) in tissues when fed a
vitamin K-deficient diet supplemented with intraperitoneal phylloquinone (K) as
the sole source of vitamin K for 14 d was assessed. In both conventionally housed
controls and gnotobiotic rats, supplementation with the equivalent of 1500 microg
vitamin K/kg diet increased (P < 0.001) tissue MK-4 concentrations above those of
controls fed a vitamin K-deficient diet. MK-4 concentrations were approximately 5
ng/g (11 pmol/g) in liver, 14 ng/g in heart, 17 ng/g in kidney, 50 ng/g in brain
and 250 ng/g in mandibular salivary glands of gnotobiotic rats. MK-4
concentrations in conventionally housed rats were higher than in gnotobiotic rats
in heart (P < 0.01), brain (P < 0.01) and kidney (P < 0.05) but lower in salivary
gland (P < 0.05). Cultures of a kidney-derived cell line (293) converted K to the
expoxide of MK-4 in a manner that was dependent on both time of incubation and
concentration of vitamin K in the media. A liver-derived cell line (H-35) was
less active in carrying out this conversion. These data offer conclusive proof
that the tissue-specific formation of MK-4 from K is a metabolic transformation
that does not require bacterial transformation to menadione as an intermediate in
the process.

Calif Med. 1970 Apr;112(4):65-7.
Don't use the wrong vitamin K.
Udall JA.
The emergency use of vitamin K is essentially limited to the reversal of
drug-induced hypoprothrombinemia. In patients with adequate liver function,
phytonadione acts promptly and predictably in this capacity whereas the
derivatives of menadione counteract coumarin drugs only slightly or not at all.
It is dangerous to rely on menadione analogues, and these drugs should be removed
from emergency room drug stores.

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:296721.
Vitamin K1 exerts antiproliferative effects and induces apoptosis in three
differently graded human colon cancer cell lines.
Orlando A(1), Linsalata M(1), Tutino V(2), D'Attoma B(1), Notarnicola M(2), Russo
F(1).
(1)Laboratory of Nutritional Pathophysiology, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
(2)Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
Vitamin K1 has been demonstrated as having anticancer potentiality mainly in
liver cancer cells. Beyond the reported mechanisms of cancer inhibition (cell
cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis), a possible control by vitamin K1 on
molecules affecting cell growth could be hypothesized. In the literature, few (if
any) data are available on its antitumor effects on colon cancer cells.
Therefore, the aims of the study were to investigate in three differently graded
human colon cancer cell lines (Caco-2, HT-29, and SW480) the effects of
increasing concentrations of vitamin K1 (from 10 μM to 200 μM) administered up to
72 h on (1) cell proliferation, (2) apoptosis with the possible involvement of
the MAPK pathway, and (3) polyamine biosynthesis. Vitamin K1 treatment caused a
significant antiproliferative effect and induced apoptosis in all the cell lines,
with the involvement of the MAPK pathway. A concomitant and significant decrease
in the polyamine biosynthesis occurred. This is the first study demonstrating a
significant polyamine decrease in addition to the antiproliferative and
proapoptotic effects following vitamin K1 administration to colon cancer cell
lines. Therapeutically, combinations of vitamin K1 with polyamine inhibitors
and/or analogues may represent a suitable option for chemoprevention and/or
treatment in future strategies for colorectal cancer management.

Scand J Gastroenterol. 2014 Jun;49(6):715-21.
Vitamin K1 attenuates bile duct ligation-induced liver fibrosis in rats.
Jiao K(1), Sun Q, Chen B, Li S, Lu J.
(1)Department of Laboratory Animal Science, School of Basic Medical Science,
Capital Medical University , Beijing, 100069 , China.
Vitamin K1 is used as a liver protection drug for cholestasis-induced liver
fibrosis in China, but the mechanism of vitamin K1's action in liver fibrosis is
unclear. In this study, a model of liver fibrosis was achieved via bile duct
ligation in rats. The rats were then injected with vitamin K1, and the levels of
serum aspartate aminotransferase, alanine transaminase, total bilirubin and the
fibrotic grade score, collagen content, the expressions of α-smooth muscle actin
(SMA) and cytokeratin 19 (CK19) were measured on day 28 after ligation. The
levels of the biochemical parameters, fibrotic score and collagen content were
significantly reduced by treatment with vitamin K1 in bile duct-ligated rats. In
addition, α-SMA and CK19 expression was significantly reduced by vitamin K1
treatment in bile duct-ligated rats. These results suggested that vitamin K1 may
attenuate liver fibrosis by inhibiting hepatic stellate cell activation in bile
duct-ligated rats.

So this paper is indicating to avoid vitamin k2 and instead using k1?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

So this paper is indicating to avoid vitamin k2 and instead using k1?

That's what RP sent to me. I think getting K from food is a way to go and that was Ray's focus. Leafy greens and some vegetables are good source of K1.

 

[Validus]

That's what RP sent to me. I think getting K from food is a way to go and that was Ray's focus. Leafy greens and some vegetables are good source of K1.

It's interesting that I stumbled upon this thread. I've also had issues that may be related to higher doses of vitamin k2. They seem to have compounded when I added in a supplement that is serrapeptase and nattokinase combined in one capsule as well.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

It's interesting that I stumbled upon this thread. I've also had issues that may be related to higher doses of vitamin k2. They seem to have compounded when I added in a supplement that is serrapeptase and nattokinase combined in one capsule as well.

May I ask how did your condition got worse after K2 and proteolytic enzymes?
I think me using K2 with VIT E was also not a very good idea since they have opposite mechanisms on blood coagulation so maybe you had the similar issues?

 

[Validus]

May I ask how did your condition got worse after K2 and proteolytic enzymes?
I think me using K2 with VIT E was also not a very good idea since they have opposite mechanisms on blood coagulation so maybe you had the similar issues?

I've been on TRT for about 7 years and although they're in range, my hemoglobin and hematocrit are high, making my blood slightly thicker and more viscous. I've also been dealing with some long "COVID" symptoms for the past year. Brain fog, fatigue, feelings of lactate in my muscles, dizziness etc.

I believe it's possible my symptoms could be due to lack of blood flow through capillaries, deep into my tissues. If this assumption is correct, anything that would increase blood thickness and coagulation could exacerbate the problem.

I've also had tinnitus for months, and also learned it's possible that could be worsened by aspirin use and even high dose niacin. Everything seems to have a cost or trade off...whats your experience been?

 

[bornamachine]

@tastyfood I got Pelumanory Pneumonia last year by taking aspirin 3 times a day with food, about 50-100 mg each time. Never more than 325mg a day for 6 weeks. Ended up running fever, ICU and almost died (nurse turned me around finally so my lungs drained) otherwise I was couple days away from intubation. My oxygen saturation was 88-90 with high pressure oxygen, alot of fluid in the lungs. That's my story with aspirin unfortunately.

 

[tastyfood]

@tastyfood I got Pelumanory Pneumonia last year by taking aspirin 3 times a day with food, about 50-100 mg each time. Never more than 325mg a day for 6 weeks. Ended up running fever, ICU and almost died (nurse turned me around finally so my lungs drained) otherwise I was couple days away from intubation. My oxygen saturation was 88-90 with high pressure oxygen, alot of fluid in the lungs. That's my story with aspirin unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing your story. Sorry to hear you went through that much trouble.

Thankfully, my worst episode passed in one night, and I made a quick recovery taking some steroidal inhaler for a day or two. Since then I've been focusing on no supplements, sleeping on my stomach, slow breathing, and one or two anti-serotinin supplements.

I think the high dose aspirin injured my stomach, which led to a stuffy nose, which led to phlegm accumulating. Will have to start from zero with aspirin again.