High-dose Vitamin C Is Making A Comeback As A Treatment For Cancer

[Queequeg]

It says "Non-GMO"
https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Ascorbic-Vitamin-Powder-kilogram/dp/B00AYIM9Y8?th=1

I saw that before but dont believe it. It's very easy to write whatever you want on an Amazon page but a little more difficult to get away with putting that claim on the actual package, which says nothing about it being GMO free.

The truth is almost all of the Vitamin C made in China is made from GMO corn syrup. That's why people are paying extra for Quali-C supposedly made in Scotland. Their label indicates its certified GMO free.

But again at the molecular level of ascorbic acid I dont think the GMO/not GMO corn source matters anymore. To me the worry about GMO is in the dna of the plant.

 

[haidut]

I want to know this too.

@Lyall
Yes, at the same time would work best AFAIK.

 

[Logan-]

I saw that before but dont believe it. It's very easy to write whatever you want on an Amazon page but a little more difficult to get away with putting that claim on the actual package, which says nothing about it being GMO free.

The truth is almost all of the Vitamin C made in China is made from GMO corn syrup. That's why people are paying extra for Quali-C supposedly made in Scotland. Their label indicates its certified GMO free.

But again at the molecular level of ascorbic acid I dont think the GMO/not GMO corn source matters anymore. To me the worry about GMO is in the dna of the plant.

I see.

There is this product.

From a Q&A:

Question:
Is this certified non-gmo on the package?
Answer:
Its says non-GMO on package and lower down on package it says certified. Not sure which part is certified
By Jo M on 21 November 2016

It says "pharma grade". Does this mean anything in terms of its heavy metal content/purity, what do you think?

 

[Queequeg]

I see.

There is this product.

From a Q&A:

Question:
Is this certified non-gmo on the package?
Answer:
Its says non-GMO on package and lower down on package it says certified. Not sure which part is certified
By Jo M on 21 November 2016

It says "pharma grade". Does this mean anything in terms of its heavy metal content/purity, what do you think?

Seems like a scam. Website looks like they just resell random crap out of China
Classikool: Slush Syrups, Baking and all things Party

 

[Logan-]

Seems like a scam. Website looks like they just resell random crap out of China
Classikool: Slush Syrups, Baking and all things Party

Yeah, it screams out that way.

 

[akgrrrl]

Oh I love that the forum is discussing Linus Pauling protocol, as I have been on it for nearly 8 months. Originally, it was a part of my healing cleanup from prescription benzos (nasty nasty stuff, got by me because I trusted the local needle-pushing medic who patted me on the head whilst praising my abstention from taking scores of other drugs he claimed I should be on given the severity and scope of injuries and reconstructive surgeries damn his hide)
It helped the process immensely.
Sleeplessness is legend while detoxing benzos, and I would state that the C was the bomb for me. Not sure about the proline, choline going down with the C per LP protocol since I never separated them. I healed superquick, despite the long length of time I was prescribed.
I would only caution anyone taking C to take it slowly, increasing dosage every other day or so, and work up to the desired dosage...unless you really like sitting on the toilet with blowouts. Once I got past 5 grams, I found my sweet spot and maintain there. You would have to wrestle me down to the ground and down the hill to convince me this isn't a good thing now.

 

[Whichway?]

But again at the molecular level of ascorbic acid I dont think the GMO/not GMO corn source matters anymore. To me the worry about GMO is in the dna of the plant.

While what you say is true that at the molecular level C is C regardless of the source, you are making an assumption that it has been purified sufficiently to remove all traces of the original raw material.

When I worked in a biological research lab we would order chemicals from Sigma, and the ones which were 99.95% pure were 5x and sometimes 10x the price of the standard lab quality which was 99 - 99.5% purity.

Anytime you manufacture something from raw material the reaction to the product you want is never 100% complete and you have to spend money to filter and purify the end product away from the unreacted raw material. The higher the desired purity, the more you have to pay to purify it.

With using GMO corn as the starting material, I could be wrong, but I could envisage that cheap manufacturers have low costs because they use cheap starting materials and do fewer purification’s of the final product. So unless I saw a product spec sheet that said there was no detectable DNA or protein in the product, and this had been verified by a third party lab, then you may be getting some corn DNA and corn protein in your Vitamin C.

 

[Queequeg]

While what you say is true that at the molecular level C is C regardless of the source, you are making an assumption that it has been purified sufficiently to remove all traces of the original raw material.

When I worked in a biological research lab we would order chemicals from Sigma, and the ones which were 99.95% pure were 5x and sometimes 10x the price of the standard lab quality which was 99 - 99.5% purity.

Anytime you manufacture something from raw material the reaction to the product you want is never 100% complete and you have to spend money to filter and purify the end product away from the unreacted raw material. The higher the desired purity, the more you have to pay to purify it.

With using GMO corn as the starting material, I could be wrong, but I could envisage that cheap manufacturers have low costs because they use cheap starting materials and do fewer purification’s of the final product. So unless I saw a product spec sheet that said there was no detectable DNA or protein in the product, and this had been verified by a third party lab, then you may be getting some corn DNA and corn protein in your Vitamin C.

I highly doubt that any corn dna, protein, or aa could survive the high level of processing/filtering used to make the glucose starting point or finished ascorbic acid. But even if any GMO material does end up in the finished product, the amount would be so small in comparison to the amount of GMO corn derived products we eat on a regular basis or GMO corn that has contaminated supposedly GMO free organic corn.

 

[Logan-]

@Queequeg, what do you think about acerola powder as a natural vitamin C source? I think Ray Peat would approve that.

ever considered acerola powder ? it seems much safer than the isolated stuff

The vitamin C dose is very little though, and I think most of the products contain some maltodextrin.

Acerola Powder

Do you think the "naturalness" (as opposed to "synthetic") is important in any way for vitamin C supplements?

 

[johnwester130]

@Queequeg, what do you think about acerola powder as a natural vitamin C source? I think Ray Peat would approve that.



The vitamin C dose is very little though, and I think most of the products contain some maltodextrin.

Acerola Powder

Do you think the "naturalness" (as opposed to "synthetic") is important in any way for vitamin C supplements?

It can stay in the body longer

Absorption and excretion of ascorbic acid alone and in acerola (Malpighia emarginata) juice: comparison in healthy Japanese subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Queequeg]

@Queequeg, what do you think about acerola powder as a natural vitamin C source? I think Ray Peat would approve that.
The vitamin C dose is very little though, and I think most of the products contain some maltodextrin.
Acerola Powder
Do you think the "naturalness" (as opposed to "synthetic") is important in any way for vitamin C supplements?

Not sure. According to Pauling and his Vitamin C elves there is no difference between ascorbic acid and natural vitamin c.
I tend to agree as I believe we are just trying to correct the genetic mutation that has taken away our ability to self synthesize ascorbic acid. No animal self synthesizes the other cofactors that the natural C proponents say are necessary.

Also from what I can tell, acerola has only 16% vitamin c. So if you want a daily doe of 6 g AC you need to take 36 g of acerola. not worth the hassle and cost imo

 

[Logan-]

Not sure. According to Pauling and his Vitamin C elves there is no difference between ascorbic acid and natural vitamin c.
I tend to agree as I believe we are just trying to correct the genetic mutation that has taken away our ability to self synthesize ascorbic acid. No animal self synthesizes the other cofactors that the natural C proponents say are necessary.

Also from what I can tell, acerola has only 16% vitamin c. So if you want a daily doe of 6 g AC you need to take 36 g of acerola. not worth the hassle and cost imo

I agree, thanks.

 

[Mito]

The same effects can be achieved much more safely with a combination of vitamin C and any other vitamin K, emodin or methylene blue (MB). In fact, using MB would be better because inside the organism the reduced/colorless MB will oxidize again and will continue to support respiration on top of the benefit the oxidized vitamin C will have. Using vitamin K3 (menadione) will likely only provide the benefit of oxidized vitamin C but without continued redox effects that MB can provide.

Would combining Vitamin C and red light have a similar effect as Vitamin C/Methylene Blue?

 

[haidut]

Would combining Vitamin C and red light have a similar effect as Vitamin C/Methylene Blue?

Only if the vitamin C is in the odixised form - dehydroascorbic acid. The photodynamic therapy needs an electron withdrawing (oxidizing) agent in order to work. So, MB or another quinone would work and vitamin C has to be oxidized first in order to work like MB/quinones.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

I am sure he has a point but even with all of its toxicities a therapy with vitamin C and methylene blue or another quinone is probably much less dangerous than the chemotherapy drugs that destroy (by design) every organ in your body.

I began taking 2-500 mg tablets of Ascorbic Acid (morning and evening) because i generate a lot of Mucus (maybe bacause overproduction of Histamine?). Since Vitamin C is antihistamine i notice less mucus production and generally feel more energetic after taking it, i also think it helps with Anxiety...I'm taking Bayer's Ascorbic Acid but i'm concerned with the heavy metal contamination Ray talks about, do you think it's safe to take it for a while until my histamine problems resolve?

 

[haidut]

I began taking 2-500 mg tablets of Ascorbic Acid (morning and evening) because i generate a lot of Mucus (maybe bacause overproduction of Histamine?). Since Vitamin C is antihistamine i notice less mucus production and generally feel more energetic after taking it, i also think it helps with Anxiety...I'm taking Bayer's Ascorbic Acid but i'm concerned with the heavy metal contamination Ray talks about, do you think it's safe to take it for a while until my histamine problems resolve?

I don't see an issue with using vitamin C but I'd actually try an older antihistamine like Benadryl that has well known safety profile.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

Does Vitamin K1 serve the same pourpose as Vitamin K2 in regards to oxidizing Vitamin C?...What dose would be recommended of K1?

 

[aquaman]

A similar approach, using a combination of vitamin A and vitamin K3 (trade name Apatone™) was recently approved for untreatable prostate cancer and so far all patients treated with it are alive, which is again unheard of for last stage cancer. The same combination is apparently effective for ovarian cancer too, which underscores the systemic (non-specific) effects of such treatment.

@haidut this is meant to be Vitamin C and K3, right?

 

[Dave Clark]

@haidut, what do you think about Ray Peat's stance on vitamin C supplements?

"Over the next 20 years, my own increased sensitivity to synthetic ascorbate led me to look for such reactions in others. The same people who reacted to it often reacted similarly to riboflavin and rutin, which were also made from cornstarch by oxidation. I ascribed the reaction to some industrial contaminant that they had in common, possibly the heavy metals introduced with the sulfuric acid. The heavy metal contamination of synthetic ascorbate is so great that one 500 mg tablet dissolved in a liter of water produces free radicals at a rate that would require a killing dose of x-rays to equal. The only clean and safe vitamin C now available is that in fresh fruits, meats, etc. The commercial stuff is seriously dangerous." - Ray Peat

One question, how old is this statement, and does he still believe the current ascorbic acid on the market is " seriously dangerous" ?
Things can change, so I wonder if the quality of vitamin C has improved with certain producers. In other words, if this test he refers to was done in the 1970s or some other long ago time period, maybe it misrepresents what is out there now. Just asking.

 

[haidut]

@haidut this is meant to be Vitamin C and K3, right?

Yes, that's what Apatone is but given K3's toxicity I don't see why the same cannot achieved by replacing K3 with K2 or other quinones like MB, emodin, etc in the same amounts as the K3 is in that formulation.