Orthodoxy And The Religion Of The Future

[Recoen]

As this is a health forum, I found this video interesting in regards to illness and pain in life. In my own life, the illnesses I developed in my earlier life corresponded to how far from God my soul and being felt...

My health issues were definitely crosses that brought me back to God.

 

[Recoen]

@Teres @Inaut

Thanks for starting this incredible thread.

Over the past couple of years I've been immersed in the history of the Byzantine empire, and the Greek Orthodox faith. In the Western world the importance of the Byzantines has been totally swept under the bed.

I suspect the sack of Constantinople by the 4th crusade in 1204, the single-most shameful day of the history of Christianity, plays a major role in the current state of things.

The Byzantine Empire, or the Eastern Roman Empire, endured for a 1000 years after the fall of Rome, and its capital, Constantinople, the greatest Christian city in the world, withstood multiple sieges by the invading Arab armies and prevented the spread of Islam to the European mainland. Despite of all this, it is virtually unknown in western popular culture.

It evolved into a state which was Greek in language and culture, roman in tradition, and christian in faith. It core territory, the Peloponnese, Macedonia, Thrace, and Anatolia, was the bedrock of the Christian faith, where the gospel first spread (the 7 cities of the revelation, in Asia Minor).

The lands of the eastern empire were the most prosperous and advanced of all of Europe, and yet because of the schism, and betrayal of the 4th crusade, its territories slowly fell to the invading Turks, and eventually the capital itself, Constantinople was swallowed whole by the Ottomans.

The first land of Christianity, Anatolia, was progressively islamized, and the Ottoman Turks, like the Arabs before them, took the Byzantine culture for their own, and bastardized its true nature. Many Greek Orthodox christians of Asia Minor endured, and kept their faith and their culture despite centuries of occupation. Let's not forget the Armenians, who originate in eastern Anatolia, and also are an early christian people as well.

As recently as the 1910s, there were still several million Christians in the eastern, founding lands of Christianity.

The relatively callous attitude of the western world for the recent conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque was profoundly shocking to me. Hagia Sophia was the biggest church in Christendom for over a 1000 years. Its construction predates Islam (it was built in 537 AD).

All this to say that, even though I cannot honestly describe myself as practicing believer or Christian, I've found great solace in discovering the traditions of the Greek Orthodox, Byzantine culture. Hearing the Byzantine chants has had an indescribable effect on my psyche:

I think the Byzantine chant is beautiful but something amazing happens to my soul when I hear the Russian chant - it also captures my young son too :).

You’re right, so much amazing history almost unknown to the West.

 

[orangeUglad]

This brought tears to my eyes! I’m so happy for you!!!

Thank you!!!

This brought tears to my eyes! I’m so happy for you!!!

Thank you!!! I want to praise my Lord for all the rest of my days!! Psalms 30:11-12 "Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O Lord my God, I will give thanks unto thee forever"

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Question...so those young children are willing choosing the horrific experiences they have? At six years old they contemplate that: ”I will choose suffering now for all my life because I know when I die, I will be rewarded in Heaven?” How can any rational mind believe this to be true? Like kidnapping, forced child slavery, forced sex slave? Help me understand this choice young children have made. I have yet to find anyone who can address this. Your arguments have not - especially the choice part.

Not him, but I am going to answer this anyway.

Every teacher I listen to follows Advaita Vedanta, or nondual philosophy in some form.

Essentially if you think of a being with no limit, meaning our one Creator. In order for that being to know itself, it needs to create artificial separation, like a dream where it forgets it is dreaming. That is us.

If you have ever written a story, you know that they benefit from struggle and antagonists.

In the end, no one suffers but God. And the Creator takes on infinite forms in infinite worlds to experience itself.

God is love. Only love is real. We are all part of the one original thought, the desire of the Creator to know itself. That is the Law of One, and all creation springs from that.

I'm going to be quite esoteric from here on. There is no hell, apart from the one found here. All things serve God, and none comes here except by choice. Hitler went to Heaven, as you might call the astral planes, to be healed from the great confusion and trauma he suffered in his life. And some others, who learned the lessons of love that we must learn here, moved on to other places.

You do not know if those children that died agreed to suffer what they did, either to pay back a karmic debt or as a service to others. Or if they were backdrop people, the Creator taking on a temporary human form so that we may learn here in this play.

 

[Lollipop2]

Not him, but I am going to answer this anyway.

Every teacher I listen to follows Advaita Vedanta, or nondual philosophy in some form.

Essentially if you think of a being with no limit, meaning our one Creator. In order for that being to know itself, it needs to create artificial separation, like a dream where it forgets it is dreaming. That is us.

If you have ever written a story, you know that they benefit from struggle and antagonists.

In the end, no one suffers but God. And the Creator takes on infinite forms in infinite worlds to experience itself.

God is love. Only love is real. We are all part of the one original thought, the desire of the Creator to know itself. That is the Law of One, and all creation springs from that.

I'm going to be quite esoteric from here on. There is no hell, apart from the one found here. All things serve God, and none comes here except by choice. Hitler went to Heaven, as you might call the astral planes, to be healed from the great confusion and trauma he suffered in his life. And some others, who learned the lessons of love that we must learn here, moved on to other places.

You do not know if those children that died agreed to suffer what they did, either to pay back a karmic debt or as a service to others. Or if they were backdrop people, the Creator taking on a temporary human form so that we may learn here in this play.

Honestly, what you wrote is the only thing that makes sense. It rings deeply true. Thank you for taking the time!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Honestly, what you wrote is the only thing that makes sense. It rings deeply true. Thank you for taking the time!

If it interests you, I suggest looking into Bernardo Kastrup, who is the leading western academic philosopher defending nondual philosophy. So far undefeated in debates with materialists. Rupert Spira, Unmani and Eckhart Tolle are some that are good for personal experience of this. No faith required, and the goal is simply happiness and peace of mind that depends on nothing. It is your true nature and it can be seen via rational examination of your own experience.

For a more esoteric approach I like the Law of One material the best, but with that you have to take just believe some things without evidence. So that's the weakest place to approach this.

 

[Lollipop2]

If it interests you, I suggest looking into Bernardo Kastrup, who is the leading western academic philosopher defending nondual philosophy. So far undefeated in debates with materialists. Rupert Spira, Unmani and Eckhart Tolle are some that are good for personal experience of this. No faith required, and the goal is simply happiness and peace of mind that depends on nothing. It is your true nature and it can be seen via rational examination of your own experience.

For a more esoteric approach I like the Law of One material the best, but with that you have to take just believe some things without evidence. So that's the weakest place to approach this.

Very Cool. I have heard of Bernard Kastrup. I will definitely look him up now. I have never heard of Rupert Spira nor Unmami. Great, new resources. Thank you again

 

[Inaut]

The whole Hitler goes to heaven thing doesn’t resonate with me at all. It’s like saying you can do whatever you want in this life and no matter what, it’s all good. No consequences for anything that happens... JMO.

Also, I don’t understand how it’s possible to say where the soul of Hitler is located. Not Him.

I used to gravitate to the Law Of One material when I was into the occult world...It’s just cheap and conterfeit to me now. I’m also pretty sure the channeler committed suicide but I could have confused that with another (or every other) channeling cult.

Not trying to be combative or defensive @Hugh johnson

What I’ve realized most since returning to Christianity is that spiritual attunement/connection to God is for all to share in—-inheritantly and equally . In the woo-woo circles as I’d like to call them, there is a sense of pride or privilege thats makes one feel as though they are somewhat more enlightened than others. Deserving of a higher title or status. (Gurus)
That they have or know something that puts them above others spiritually. “Woke” is what the kids call it these days I think. I’ve realized that the most pious men/women in the Christian worldview see themselves as worse than the worst sinner (regardless of their spiritual revelations or experiences with God)

 

[Hugh Johnson]

The whole Hitler goes to heaven thing doesn’t resonate with me at all. It’s like saying you can do whatever you want in this life and no matter what, it’s all good. No consequences for anything that happens... JMO.

Also, I don’t understand how it’s possible to say where the soul of Hitler is located. Not Him.

I used to gravitate to the Law Of One material when I was into the occult world...It’s just cheap and conterfeit to me now. I’m also pretty sure the channeler committed suicide but I could have confused that with another (or every other) channeling cult.

Not trying to be combative or defensive @Hugh johnson

The channel did not. One of the helpers did, and I can not see how that is relevant. He preferred to leave rather than suffer the indignities of a mental institution and medical treatment that would have simply kept him alive for a months or so. I would do the same in that situation.

I told you that was esoteric. That's why LoA does require some faith and thus should be taken with a grain of salt. Like all things you can not confirm.

However, of the Creator did not want Holocaust to happen, it could not. One could not even conceive of it. And for Hell to exist makes no sense. Even in Christianity it was a pagan concept that was adopted to scare people into obedience. Why should God create a person, knowing full well he will commit industrial genocide just to punish him? And if God truly is all there is, he would simply condemn Himself. (God is not a man, I just find these terms easy to use) That would be insanity and sadism on scale unimaginable. No one that has had personal experience with God has to my knowledge said that He is criminally insane.

There are beings, some worshipped, that are "evil". Our Creator is not. It makes no sense. For love to blossom between people, all that's needed is telling the truth. And samadhi, pure bliss is accessed by simply turning your attention inward to the source of all experience. And those that have died and come back tell of unconditional love and endless bliss.

How could our Creator be an insane sadist? Based on some pagan superstitions?

There are consequences, karma does exist. The words "karmic debt" are used in the LoO. But it's not a punishment, that is your ego talking. God would never punish, because there are no mistakes in his eyes.

Karmic debt is for the purpose of learning and healing. It allows us to individuate. And through it the creator learns. Hitler served the as all things do. How could anything exist otherwise?

 

[Inaut]

I’ll leave it at this and say no more regarding this topic, there is a difference between God’s will and man’s. We have been give free will and that can be in direct violation of the benevolent Creator God of all things. To me it’s not God killing people, it’s people being manipulated by evil.

 

[orangeUglad]

And samadhi, pure bliss is accessed by simply turning your attention inward to the source of all experience

I think if someone can access and experience a true bliss all from diving deeper into themselves is amazing. None of the "light workers" I was around could ever do that for themselves...and for myself there were definitely little moments of pure bliss..and then back to the bits on the bread crumb trail towards "enlightenment". The pure bliss I'm experiencing by accepting the Holy Spirit into me and His unfailing love (sadly I never have been able to give myself constant unfailing love) taking me as I am is something so powerful...and so strong..I have never experienced such a powerful, constant, peace and bliss when I was deep in New Age. However I do respect and understand everyone is on a different path and experiences things different

 

[Gone Peating]

Would you say the King James bible is the version of the bible that has been tinkered with the least?

It’s a good translation. The biggest mistake is that it says “Deliver us from evil” rather than “Deliver us from the evil one” in the Lord’s prayer.

The KJV also used the Masoretic text which was compiled around the 6th or 7th century AD, which is a potential conflict of interest since it was written by Jewish scribes who did not recognize Christ and there are some discrepencies between it and the Septuagint which was compiled in the 3rd century BC

 

[MatheusPN]

The kind of loving that is being talked about is consciously cultivated, i.e. devotion.

So are you saying that solely who devotes to god has a loving heart?

How do you know? Do you live in fruitless devotion?

If so, how do you know that Valhalla doesn't exist, have you gone through wars heroically?

Consider that newborns likely are not aware of anything. They are beings of instinct. Their consciousness is still yet to fully emerge.

Consider that newborns are aware, they aren't only beings of instinct. Newborns can have more conscience than adults, especially different kinds.

There is a fundamental difference between growing through novelty and escaping in novelty. The former is an expression of God, the latter denial of God.

Escaping and learning through a submissive way is called indoctrination, i.e the acceptance of something like god blindly / stoned, and growing through novelty is the pursuit of pleasure or something unprecedented/ new, which includes thinking that can exist lots of gods or none.

Whence the focus on newborns? Are you alluding to the kingdom of God belonging to the children? In this case I think you are fatally conflating a newborn acting on instinct with a child old enough to have a modicum of agency.

Negative, the talk with newborns is simple because they clearly aren't guilty of anything.

 

[TheSir]

So are you saying that solely who devotes to god has a loving heart?

In the context of the definitions I offered earlier, you are asking: "do only the devoted have devotion?" To which the answer would be: yes.

If so, how do you know that Valhalla doesn't exist, have you gone through wars heroically?

I have no opinion about Valhalla. Side-stepping your deflection: you rejected the conclusion someone has derived from experience and reasoning based on a conclusion you have derived from reasoning and a lack of experience. Question: whose conclusion has stronger basis?

Consider that newborns are aware, they aren't only beings of instinct. Newborns can have more conscience than adults, especially different kinds.

From what I am aware, it generally takes a newborn 1-2 years to develop a sufficient sense of self-awareness so as to allow elementary conscience. What do you see as the different kinds of conscience?

Escaping and learning through a submissive way is called indoctrination, i.e the acceptance of something like god blindly / stoned, and growing through novelty is the pursuit of pleasure or something unprecedented/ new, which includes thinking that can exist lots of gods or none.

Quite right. It's worth emphasizing that of the major world religions, none encourage blind faith or indoctrination. Instead, all of them are based on the principle that those who want to find truth must seek truth. Doctrines are merely hightlighting the path. The path still has to be walked by the individual, drawing guidance from somewhere within.

Negative, the talk with newborns is simple because they clearly aren't guilty of anything.

Yes, guilt requires conscious action.

 

[David PS]

Mainly for those interested in Christianity and it’s battle with the Occult/New Age religion that we are being indoctrinated into (opinion of mine as a disclaimer).
Not looking to have a religious/spiritual debate on what’s true/false but I recently read this book by an Orthodox Father named Seraphim Rose (he was a convert in the later part of his life). This dude went through a lot of eastern religions and occult practices in his life early life until finding his way to orthodox Christianity. He was even a student of Alan Watt in the early 60s. This book really resonated with me as it ties in with my own experiences and thoughts in my younger days when I also was interested in the occult and eastern mysticism.

For those that have read Constance Cumbey’s The Hidden Dangers of The Rainbow, this book was regarded as an inspiration for her.

I know there will be some on this forum that will be triggered simply by the words religion or Christianity so for you, please ignore this post. For anybody else interested , check it out. Really worth a read.

Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Seraphim Rose

Thanks, I am enjoying the read. Here is the full text link.
http://vladspost.com/pdf/Fr. Seraphim Rose/Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.pdf

I am reading it with this chant playing in the background.

 

[Inaut]

Nihilism is definitely worth the purchase (which I did). I started listening to the first part of the audio book that was shared earlier in this thread and was blown away.

 

[ken]

Did you ever hear the one about the Cook? One day there weren't any coals in his stove to get a fire started to cook the food for the day. Going to the neighbors, everyone's hearth was cold. After awhile he had an epiphany. On the slope of a mountain outside the village there was a cave known as the mouth of hell. So the the Cook decided to hike up and see if he could borrow some fire. When he pulled back the brambles and crawled into the opening he was surprised how dank and chilly the place was. After wandering around for what seemed like an eternity he met a dark and ominous fellow. When introductions were made he learned that this was Satan. Well, the cook told him of his quest and how surprised he was that it was so chill and dank. Satan began laughing, "there aren't any fires here, Everyone brings there own".

 

[gately]

And those that have died and come back tell of unconditional love and endless bliss.

There's too much nonsense in your posts to contend with. But let's start here. Not everyone goes to a nice place.

Distressing Near-Death Experiences: The Basics

As a side note: you claim to believe in karma, but you're on a public forum trying to convince people there isn't a hell, when you clearly have no authority to do so. What do you think karmically happens to the souls of people who teach adharma (false doctrine)?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

There's too much nonsense in your posts to contend with. But let's start here. Not everyone goes to a nice place.

Distressing Near-Death Experiences: The Basics

"You are wrong, but I won't address a single thing you said."

Argument of the champions right there. Negative experiences happen are life review, and they only seem negative because they are interrupted.

 

[Lollipop2]

There's too much nonsense in your posts to contend with. But let's start here. Not everyone goes to a nice place.

Distressing Near-Death Experiences: The Basics

Funny that you call his post nonsense. His post is the only one in this thread that makes sense.

Calling out these dark NDE’s is not a strong argument. What you believe is what you find. Remember those NDE’s that start out dark and the person calls on God for help and suddenly the scene changes to light?!?!