Normal Serum Copper, Very High Free Serum Copper

[BearWithMe]

These are results of my recent bloodwork:

copper: 15,9 μmol/l (ref. range 12,4-20,6)
ceruloplasmin: 0,21 g/l (ref. range 0,15-0,30)
free copper: 9,2 μmol/l (ref. range 0-1,6)

Serum copper and ceruloplasmin levels are perfectly within range, but my free coper seems to be very high.

What could this mean? Am I copper toxic?

 

[BearWithMe]

Oh and my copper content in urine was < 0,90 μmol (ref. range < 1,26)

 

[Daniil]

A case of Wilson's syndrome with normal tests

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5889150/ Here is a case of Wilson's-konovalov syndrome with normal cerruloplasmin, daily urine, and no kaiser rings. Normal cerruloplasmin may be elevated due to inflammation. It looks like a liver biopsy is the only 100% test. And most cases of the...

raypeatforum.com

 

[BearWithMe]

A case of Wilson's syndrome with normal tests

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5889150/ Here is a case of Wilson's-konovalov syndrome with normal cerruloplasmin, daily urine, and no kaiser rings. Normal cerruloplasmin may be elevated due to inflammation. It looks like a liver biopsy is the only 100% test. And most cases of the...

raypeatforum.com

Awesome find! Replied in your thread

 

[Daniil]

Do you have any other abnormalities in your tests?

 

[Daniil]

To be honest, your urine copper test seems a bit high to me. I'd retake it if I were you.

 

[Daniil]

The amount of copper in the urine depends on the free copper. I think if you ate copper, and then stopped and after a while went to take the test-the level will quickly decrease due to accumulation in the tissues. This idea confirms that a biopsy is the only 100% method of diagnosis

 

[Daniil]

I also think that "Wilson's syndrome" is nothing more than an adaptation of organisms to low levels of copper in foods. But when a person goes on a diet with a lot of copper (such as peating) it is suicidal for him.

 

[BearWithMe]

Do you have any other abnormalities in your tests?

High blood calciumm, low blood phosphorus, high blood zinc, elevated liver enzymes are the biggest ones.

 

[BearWithMe]

I also think that "Wilson's syndrome" is nothing more than an adaptation of organisms to low levels of copper in foods. But when a person goes on a diet with a lot of copper (such as peating) it is suicidal for him.

That would actually make a lot of sense.

Body does exactly the same thing with some other nutrients - like calcium for example.

That would also mean there should be a possibility to adapt back to normal levels of copper in diet, which would mean that Wilsons is curable

 

[Daniil]

High blood calciumm, low blood phosphorus, high blood zinc, elevated liver enzymes are the biggest ones.

What enzymes? I also had high levels of zinc in my blood. Phosphorus was not measured.

 

[Daniil]

That would actually make a lot of sense.

Body does exactly the same thing with some other nutrients - like calcium for example.

That would also mean there should be a possibility to adapt back to normal levels of copper in diet, which would mean that Wilsons is curable

I think, of course, there is such a possibility. However, we can not take into account the amount of copper in the water.

 

[BearWithMe]

What enzymes? I also had high levels of zinc in my blood. Phosphorus was not measured.

Very interesting! Have you ever supplemented zinc?

 

[Daniil]

Very interesting! Have you ever supplemented zinc without copper?

Yes. High calcium may indicate that you have hyperparathyroidism. Have you checked your parathyroid gland?

 

[Daniil]

By the way, I have a low parathyroid hormone, but the calcium in my blood is normal.

 

[BearWithMe]

Yes. High calcium may indicate that you have hyperparathyroidism. Have you checked your parathyroid gland?

No, but I definitely need to do that soon.

My diet was very low in calcium in the past. Around 250mg a day, maybe lower. I think what happened is exactly what we described above:
Low calcium intake -> increased calcium absorbtion and bone dissolving -> high blood calcium

 

[BearWithMe]

Is there a possibility that we just have deranged copper metabolism caused by supplementing zinc without copper? What doses you was using? For how long?

 

[Daniil]

Is there a possibility that we just have deranged copper metabolism caused by supplementing zinc without copper? What doses you was using? For how long?

I took zinc from time to time and at a dosage of no more than 45mg/day. How can this mess up the metabolism of copper, is there any information on this topic?

 

[BearWithMe]

I took zinc from time to time and at a dosage of no more than 45mg/day. How can this mess up the metabolism of copper, is there any information on this topic?

45mg is very large dose that definitely can cause copper metabolism problems.

One forum members once said that selling zinc supplements without copper should be a crime. I 100% agree with that.

Give me a second, I will find some links for you

 

[BearWithMe]

Doctors cause copper deficiency by 'misdiagnosing a need for zinc'

Doctors mistakenly diagnosing a deficiency of zinc are prescribing enough supplement to lead to zinc-induced copper deficiency, an audit of patient care suggests.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

If ceruloplasmin is low due to copper deficiency and you are taking so much zinc or just any supplemental zinc at all you will kill yourself slowly as your bodily proteins that are dependent on copper will fall apart without it, your skin health for example is heavily dependent on it, all your joints, etc...

You are right to be worried about that zinc. For a normal individual without copper/iron/zinc imbalances that much zinc will cause problems relatively quickly by preventing copper absorption which will affect iron metabolism.

Copper Toxicity + Deficiency Paradox – How To Treat

Hello, I am having problems with what seems to be copper toxicity (had emotional issues, dry pale skin, loss of some color in hair, twitches and other neurological symptoms). Copper is sky-high on my hair test. My ceruloplasmin is pretty low (14 ug/dl), and my serum copper is just on the...

raypeatforum.com

"Metallothionein is involved in the important mechanism by which excessive zinc (Zn) intake can block Cu absorption (32). Zinc is a stronger inducer of metallothionein production than Cu, yet Cu can displace Zn from metallothionein (5). Large doses of Zn can trap Cu in the intestinal mucosal cells bound to metallothionein until the mucosal cells are shed."

Copper Deficiency In Humans

Copper Deficiency in Humans This is not a brief review, I suggest that you read it completely for all the details. Here are some interesting parts from it: "The importance of reductions in the activity of cytochrome oxidase in causing the manifestations of Cu deficiency has probably been...

raypeatforum.com

Back in 2017, I induced a copper deficiency from several months of high zinc supplementation. I discovered the copper deficiency this year and began copper supplementation. My copper levels are back in normal range. The copper supplement has helped tremendously with my anxiety, muscle twitching, histamine issues, and joint pain.

Zinc Causing Extreme Reactions. Help

Back in 2017, I induced a copper deficiency from several months of high zinc supplementation. I discovered the copper deficiency this year and began copper supplementation. My copper levels are back in normal range. The copper supplement has helped tremendously with my anxiety, muscle twitching...

raypeatforum.com

the moment of my life were everything started to deteriorate from my brain to my joins,severe joints weakness and pain while doing exercice,i was eating a bunch of hamburger full of zinc from the beef,and nearly 0 copper sources,this summer i started eating lamb liver,my joints sttrenghtened hugely
.....
Problem with your dose is it really doesnt matter if you took copper or not, 40-50mg of zinc a day is too high because thats when MT gets high enough where it will start to sequester most of the copper you take in instead of absorbing it. If you took 50mg and say you had 10mg from food or something, your MT in the gut is so high you will barely get any copper in.

Could Zinc be the cause of arthritis and cartilage destruction ?

I wanted to bring this topic up as I feel like understanding this could be vital in understanding a variety of other common issues. Last year I started dabbling in high dose zinc. The immediate effects were more acne but then things cleared and my energy and skin were better then ever. Now of...

raypeatforum.com

Agree @youngsinatra I supplemented zinc years ago and it made me feel weird

Same experience here too. Made me copper deficient.

Safe amount of magnesium and zinc to supplement without messing up magnesium potassium and zinc copper ratio?

What is a safe amount of magnesium and zinc to supplement that won’t mess up my magnesium potassium and zinc copper ratio?

raypeatforum.com

After some trial and error I concluded I had messed up my copper levels and started aggressively supplementing copper glycinate and well as chlorophyll, total 4-10 mg copper per day. The problem seemed to be very slowly subsiding (taking horse chestnut may have helped as well).

However, any small amount of zinc supplement will now set me back almost to the beginning of my recovery from this problem (another clue that I'm right about the deficiency). I have histamine intolerance and people with HIT theoretically have heavier demands on copper due to its need in enzymes that break histamine down and tend to have low levels. Having experimented with zinc to deal with some estrogen and viral issues the other week I'm now dealing with worsened vein problems all over. Fluid pools under my eyes more easily which is particularly stressful for me. Energy drinks seem to make the problem much worse as well.

Messed Up My Copper Levels: Don't Do This (please Help)

Hi everyone I have been contending w/ a new problem since about June. I had been supplementing 1mg/day molybdenum in a hope of dealing with issues tolerating thiols. I was humming along on this diet and protocol and feeling like I had finally figured all my problems out. After about 2 months of...

raypeatforum.com

There are so many more posts like that if you search the forum a bit