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Have I Pushed This Too Far?

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by Spartan300, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Long post but mostly bloodwork data in the hope that those with better understanding may see something which might help.

    I’ve been working on optimising my androgens for 18 months to 2 years. My mood has declined in this time & I’m easily angered/irritated. Sleep is also very poor & gets worse if I attempt even a modest intensity in my weight workouts. Have I pushed this too far?

    Although It seems quite a few people on here would be pleased with the results shown I feel my health/metabolism is far from ideal.

    I have a slender build & have always struggled to gain muscle but I have been losing weight & regressing in my weight workouts for some time. I’m 52yo & around 15% bodyfat. My muscles seem flat, not full & if I manage to gain any weight it just seems to go around my waist.

    I switch things around quite a bit but I’ve using a variety of Idealabs products in low doses. (Estroban, Androsterone, Lapodin, Defibron, Gonadin & recently Kuinone & Tocovit.

    I’m also taking Taurine (1g), Niacinamide (500mg) & glycine (1g). Topical magnesium, B1, B2 & B6.

    With the numbers shown in the results below I’d expect to be able to easily gain muscle but I’m going the wrong way if anything. I know a few people are going to say more calories which may be right but I only seem to gain bodyfat? does the serum creatinine suggest overtraining? I feel I may have dug myself into a hole..

    I just seem to be tired & irritable & that’s not the way I used to be. I have little enthusiasm for much at all – low dopamine? I feel like getting some sound deep sleep would fix things for me as on the odd occasion this has happened I feel so much better – like 20 years younger…

    So, have I have pushed things too far & if so what should I do? Many thanks in advance for any/all advice.

    Serum ferritin level 178 ng/mL
    Male Ferritin Reference Range
    20-60 years: 30-400ng/mL

    Serum folate level 14.6 ng/mL [3.9 - 26.8]

    Serum vitamin B12 level 744 pg/mL [197.0 - 771.0]

    Thyroid function test
    Serum TSH level 2.32 miu/L [0.27 - 4.2]
    Serum free T4 level 15.4 pmol/L [12.0 - 22.0]

    Bone profile
    Serum calcium level 2.46 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
    Serum inorganic phosphate level 0.88 mmol/L [0.8 - 1.5]
    Serum alkaline phosphatase level 65 u/L [30.0 - 130.0]
    Serum total protein level 68 g/L [60.0 - 80.0]
    Serum albumin level 47 g/L [35.0 - 50.0]
    Serum globulin level 21 g/L [17.0 - 35.0]

    Serum C reactive protein level < 1 mg/L [0.0 - 5.0]

    Urea and electrolytes
    Serum urea level 6.6 mmol/L [2.5 - 7.8]
    Serum sodium level 139 mmol/L [133.0 - 146.0]
    Serum potassium level 4.1 mmol/L [3.5 - 5.3]
    Serum creatinine level 102 umol/L [59.0 - 104.0]

    Liver function tests
    Serum alanine aminotransferase level 15 u/L [0.0 - 41.0]
    Serum total bilirubin level 7 umol/L [0.0 - 20.0]

    GFR calculated abbreviated MDRD 73 mL/min

    Calcium Adjusted 2.39 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]

    Serum 25-Hydroxy vitamin D3 level 85.3 nmol/L
    25-hydroxy Vitamin D interpretation:
    <25 nmol/L Deficient
    25-50 nmol/L Insufficient
    50-75 nmol/L Adequate
    >75 nmol/L Optimal

    Full blood count
    Haemoglobin concentration 158 g/L [135.0 - 175.0]
    Total white blood count 7.8 10*9/L [4.0 - 11.0]
    Platelet count - observation 268 10*9/L [135.0 - 450.0]
    Red blood cell count 4.98 10*12/L [4.5 - 5.5]
    Mean cell volume 93 fL [80.0 - 100.0]
    Haematocrit 0.47 L/L [0.38 - 0.5]
    Mean cell haemoglobin level 31.7 pg [27.0 - 34.0]
    Red blood cell distribution width 11.7 [10.0 - 15.0]
    Neutrophil count 5.4 10*9/L [2.0 - 7.5]
    Lymphocyte count 1.6 10*9/L [1.0 - 4.0]
    Monocyte count - observation 0.5 10*9/L [0.1 - 1.0]
    Eosinophil count - observation 0.3 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.5]
    Basophil count 0.1 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.2]
    Nucleated red blood cell count 0.0 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.2]

    Plasma glucose level 6.4 mmol/L [3.0 - 6.0]
    Above high reference limit
    Glucose ref. range applies to fasting samples only. (This was repeated & came back 5.2)

    Anti-tissue transglutaminase level 0.6 u/mL [0.0 - 7.0]
    Providing thepatient was on a normal diet (at least 1
    gluten containing meal per day) for 6-8 weeks, this
    anti ttg result makes coeliac disease unlikely, but
    does not completely exclude the diagnosis.

    Serum cortisol level 449 nmol/L
    The cortisol assay has changed to improve traceability
    to the gold standard and the results are 20-25% lower
    than the previous reported. The cut off for a short
    synacthen test is 420 nmol/L and for 9am cortisol,
    level of > 350 nmol/L makes adrenal insufficiency
    unlikely.

    Serum prolactin level 208 miu/L [0.0 - 500.0]

    Serum testosterone level 24.43 nmol/L [6.68 - 25.7]
    Male Testosterone Reference Range
    20-49 years: 8.64-29.0 nmol/L
    >= 50 years: 6.68-25.7 nmol/L

    Dihydrotestosterone 2.50 nmol/L [0.9 - 2.9]

    Serum dehydroepiandrosterone level 9.69 umol/L [1.2 - 8.98]
    Above high reference limit
     
  2. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    A few other points of note:

    My waking temps are lower than they should be: 96.44 - 97.1 and I've always had trouble with cold hands/Raynaud's. So often when shaking hands with anyone I'm told, 'yours hands are cold'.... Later daytime temps generally around 97.9 - 98.1. Morning wood is sporadic, 2 or 3 out of 10 most of the time.

    I mentioned in another thread some time back (over a year) that there was a brief period of around 5 days when something clicked for me. When I went to bed somehow I know I was going to sleep & it was the deepest most restorative sleep I'd had in a decade. I woke up with temps between 97.7 & 98.1 for those few days & I honestly felt like I was 25 again. I'm actually 52. It was amazing.

    I wracked my brain for anything I was doing differently at the time & the only thing I could come up with was that I'd consciously backed of the weights. I was still training but I'd dialed back on the intensity.

    One thing that corroborates this theory is that because I felt so good for a few days I decided I'd be ok to up the intensity of a workout and bang, I was back in the hole & have remained there since.

    I’ve been thinking that my problems might be stress related but I’m now wondering whether I’m just not handling things as well as I might be due to a lack of sleep.

    T, DHT & DHEAS all look good? Would improved androgens be making me irritable & causing insomnia?
     
  3. MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Your cortisol is high, your t4 is low, cold hands? Maybe can be high adrenaline too, the high levels of T and DHT apparently are the way your body is compensating
    Your diet, calories, they would help us

    I almost always only could slept well in some hours of the day, the thing that most helped me, exceptionally was going to bed always in the same time, now I sleep very, very well, always refreshing, wake up naturally with good disposition, I have even more energy, even when I only sleep 4h; I feel like I slept very well!
    Waking up at same time contributes significantly
    To adjust again when I run away from the time, I use glycine and cyproheptadine, take some days to feel perfect again
     
  4. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Thanks MatheusPN. My sleep hygiene is really good, I always go to bed at the same time wherever possible, use blue light blocking glasses in the evenings and use glycine, niacinamide, magnesium and Lapodin before bed.

    From time to time I use low dose Amitriptyline which helps sleep but conflicts with the high intra ocular pressure I have. A little pregnenolone or progesterone before sometimes helps a little with sleep but not good for libido.

    I'm around 147lbs and generally consume around 2500 calories/day. Diet is as Peaty as I find it easy to achieve but I always get 100g+ protein, avoid PUFA and carbs are a combination of starches (potatoes/white rice) & fruits.
     
  5. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Is it possible to still have high estrogen with androgens where mine are? I only ask because I find I'm way more emotional than I'd expect a guy with DHT where mine is to be... Could stress produce this effect? My doctor refused to test E2 because it's a 'womans hormone'....

    Would appreciate @haidut views if you get a chance to review the blood work, thanks
     
  6. fradon

    fradon Member

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    you may be caught in a sympathetic nervous system loop releasing a lot f cortisol
    The Role of CRH: Why Your Health Problems Worsen After Stress - Selfhacked

    try stimulationg the VAGUS NERVE to trigger the parasympathetic system
    Vagus Nerve Stimulation and Symptoms of Vagus Nerve Disorders
     
  7. danishispsychic

    danishispsychic Member

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    how is your iodine level? are you drinking sugared coffee with cream? are you drinking salted OJ? salted OJ is a sleep game changer for me- but I dont drink it after 1pm. Coffee, coffee enemas- I would suggest. my temps went way up after sugar, salt, and iodine. might look a at that - and do you have a fatty liver ?
     
  8. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    @fradon Thanks for the links, I'll do some reading. It does feel like I've gotten into a vicious circle that needs to be broken...

    @danishispsychic Not sure on iodine levels but it's something I've been thinking about & I recently tried Lugols 3% between 1 & 3 drops/day for about a week & felt no improvement. If anything I thought I was feeling slightly worse so I stopped.
    I do a couple of 8oz glasses of OJ/day with approx 0.5tsp sea salt in each. I drink around 3 or 4 coffees a day with just milk, maybe I should add a little sugar.
     
  9. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Liver ok according to doc/tests
     
  10. danishispsychic

    danishispsychic Member

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    have you had a CT scan on liver? that is the only way to see a fatty liver- SO many people with estro dominance and hypothyroid have them and it can only be seen by scan. Not sure why you are taking HCG- but a lot of my liver issues started after I did HCG a few years ago. Just another thought. You might want to try iodine topically - it is pretty effective for lowering estrogen- or it was for me. Also you might want to try like a supplement free month- and see how you feel. If you liver is congested at all, all those supplements are not going to really help. Sugar and cream in coffee is the only way I can drink it that does not cause a cortisol reaction- you might what to give that a whirl as well.- I am of the thinking that in order to get to the root of things- like estrogen dominance- clean the colon, clean the liver, stop all supplements, and add lemon to everything. After a month of all that - add stuff back in. A series of colonics can really work wonders to move the extra estrogen out. Getting really good bile flow from that liver helps too. Gluten clogs up my liver and slows everything down for me. I can tell by yellow stools when I eat it. I was tested for Celiac and Dr. said I was fine, but my DNA test came back with high markers for Celiac- so then everything made more sense to me. I am a big believer in looking at DNA markers for some things and also having a TSH way low like Peat recommends is also something to look at. When doctors say my thyroid is FINE....at a TSH of 1.5.... i just shake my head. It should be lower from what Dr. Peat says. Although Dr. Peat is not a big fan of fasting- I am a fan. Check out The Master Cleanse, and The Snake Diet - ( you tube) - Both great ways to get rid of extra estrogen which IMO, is your main issue.
     
  11. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    I think we agree. Symptoms seem estrigenic to me and the hypothyroid aspect may be secondary to that.

    I've not had a liver ct scan so can't be sure.
    I'll give the topical iodine a go.
    I'm not taking hcg but have tried gonadin?

    This is going to sound odd but I think quite a few people on here will relate to it. I've been considering a break from all supplements for some time but haven't been brave enough to do it yet! As you say, my liver and digestion might be glad of it.
     
  12. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I do that periodically and find it helpful. I think as our health changes our needs change too.

    Do you use antimicrobial fibers or any endotoxin lowering measures?
     
  13. tara

    tara Member

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    As always, I'm no expert, this is not medical advice ...

    This is all consistent with chronic energy deficit, which is stressful. The body can adapt to chronic energy deficit by lowering base metabolism (amongst consequences: increase TSH, decrease temps). There could be other things going on too, but this is the simplest explanation, so probably worth looking at first.

    Could well be both. Stress from undereating in relation to demands for energy can make it hard to rest and sleep well, which can mess with recovery and resilience.

    Good luck.
     
  14. haidut

    haidut Member

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    High cortisol can elevate serotonin and estrogen. A doctor that claims estrogen is a "female" hormone needs to be stripped of his/medical degree. Men can produce even more estrogen then women if they are overweight and/or under a lot of stress. If estrogen cannot be tested then I would ask for prolactin instead.
     
  15. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Thanks @haidut
    Serum prolactin level 208 miu/L [0.0 - 500.0]

    Really difficult to know what focus on. Androgens seem good but effects of stress are causing the serotonin/estrogenic symptoms and insomnia?

    @Blossom I've tried a little AC & pau d'arco but not consistently. Might give that another whirl.

    @tara I will try upping the calories but focus on easy to digest stuff.

    I know what it feels like to be making progress with my exercise routines but I'm feeling the opposite and have been for a while. It's really frustrating.

    I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions.
     
  16. tara

    tara Member

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    I think the adaptation to the stimulus of exercise happens during the rest period between? Could it be that you could space your training further apart and get just as much or maybe more benefit? Perhaps take a less 'spartan' approach, and savourthe rest - replenish - recover-and-rebuild part of the cycle too?

    In terms of what to focus on, personally, I generally tend to think that if the system's not handling things, it makes sense to first focus on ensuring all the basic needs are being met, and extreme stresses reduced to reasonable levels where possible, before considering whether any additional therapeutic supplements are needed.
    That means ensuring good nutrition, daylight, breathing, warmth, and avoiding obvious extreme overwork.

    If you try to supplement your way out of stress without meeting basic needs, your body may have to work against your efforts - raising stress hormones as part of adaptive mechanisms to survive the stressful conditions it is enduring.
     
  17. OP
    Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    Thanks @tara and I agree. I've dialled right back on my training schedule and intensity for some time but I've been stuck in the same place for a long time now and just keen to see if the test results I posted might provide clues on what to focus on.

    I feel I've aged a lot (excessively) in the last 5 years.

    A supplements holiday is feeling like a good idea
     
  18. tara

    tara Member

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    I'm not against supplementing appropriately and cautiously, I just think basics have to be in place as a priority.
    Sometimes it's hard to fill all the nutritional needs with the food available, and the odd supplement may at times help. :)
     
  19. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I agree. Taking periodic breaks from supplements has helped me figure out what is necessary and what is no longer needed.
     
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