Interpreting Labs (Low histamine/High Copper)

[laleto12]

Hi guys, Please help me interpret my labs. 21 Years old MALE

My symptoms: very high anxiety and adrenaline. Digestive issues, skin problems (like acne and eczema) and so on.

COPPER (SERUM) 158,07 65 - 165 µg/dL
TIBC 320,00
UIBC 233,90 125 - 345 µg/dL
Iron ( Fe ) 85,67 33 - 193 µg/dL
TRANSFERRİN 2,62 2 - 4 g/L
PROLACTIN (PRL) 11,28 4,04 - 15,2 ng/mL
FERRİTİN 113,70 30 - 400 ng/mL
CERULOPLASMIN 0,22 0,15 - 0,60 g/L
Histamine(Blood) 0,14 L 0,2 - 1 ug/L


WBC 6,75 4-10 10^4/uL
BASO 0,01 0 - 0,2 10^3/uL


I have also tested manganese but it didnt come up yet its been scheduled to 26th of october.
These are the tests that I have done recently because I've been suspecting of low histamine/over methylation/ copper overload symptoms. And It looks like that these tests have confirmed my suspicions.

How do i proceed from here?
Zinc / b3 / b6 / manganese supplementation? In what forms/dosages? Is OptiZinc good? It contains methionine so probably not but just asking.

@redsun @youngsinatra

Thanks guys.

EDIT: I thought I have organized the results in text however It just doesnt seem to be the one I see in edited version in original post so here is a image for you to understand it better.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Is one time serum histamine relevant?
This changes quite a bit from day to day or even time of the day.

 

[youngsinatra]

How does your diet look like?
What supplements are you currently taking?

I‘d try to get an overview of your micronutrient / mineral intake via cronometer.
Definitely avoid high copper foods such as organ meats, chocolate, shellfish and mushrooms.
Add in some ground beef (rich source of zinc, lacking copper).

As far as supplements go, I like niacin(amide) split over the course of the day and zincbisglycinate + molybdenum before bed. I think flush niacin could be more potential for raising histamines, even though I haven‘t tried it yet.

 

[laleto12]

@redsun
any thoughts? I need your advice on this.

 

[redsun]

Hi guys, Please help me interpret my labs. 21 Years old MALE

My symptoms: very high anxiety and adrenaline. Digestive issues, skin problems (like acne and eczema) and so on.

COPPER (SERUM) 158,07 65 - 165 µg/dL
TIBC 320,00
UIBC 233,90 125 - 345 µg/dL
Iron ( Fe ) 85,67 33 - 193 µg/dL
TRANSFERRİN 2,62 2 - 4 g/L
PROLACTIN (PRL) 11,28 4,04 - 15,2 ng/mL
FERRİTİN 113,70 30 - 400 ng/mL
CERULOPLASMIN 0,22 0,15 - 0,60 g/L
Histamine(Blood) 0,14 L 0,2 - 1 ug/L


WBC 6,75 4-10 10^4/uL
BASO 0,01 0 - 0,2 10^3/uL


I have also tested manganese but it didnt come up yet its been scheduled to 26th of october.
These are the tests that I have done recently because I've been suspecting of low histamine/over methylation/ copper overload symptoms. And It looks like that these tests have confirmed my suspicions.

How do i proceed from here?
Zinc / b3 / b6 / manganese supplementation? In what forms/dosages? Is OptiZinc good? It contains methionine so probably not but just asking.

@redsun @youngsinatra

Thanks guys.

EDIT: I thought I have organized the results in text however It just doesnt seem to be the one I see in edited version in original post so here is a image for you to understand it better.
View attachment 29368

Its important to be conservative and try just zinc gluconate or glycinate 20mg daily and see if this improves your anxiety. This should also lower prolactin, raise androgens which should also improve anxiety. What is your daily protein and choline intake? Do you consume coffee or other sources of caffeine?

I agree with sinatra its important we see what your micronutrient intake is from your daily diet so we can make more sense of what is happening.

 

[InChristAlone]

That was me before using high dose ascorbic acid which acts like an antihistamine. I didn't get any blood tests though that would reveal whether I had histamine or copper issues.

 

[laleto12]

Can this be Kaiser-Fleischer ring?

Manganese blood test came back somewhat low as well. All of issues traces back to copper toxicity however I still wonder if its really true or Am I just speculating.

Started to take 15mg of zinc from picolinate daily and 4mg of manganese from biglysinate form. After the ingestion of supplements they increase the intensity of symptoms that I have (anxiety, palpitations etc) for a period of time (2-3 hours). Can this be due to copper dumping?

Thanks for the replies, The reason that I didnt respond to them because I have been dealing these issues since childhood and I have tried a lot of dietical interventions like carnivore diet, paleo, peat, even aajonus. I know all the questions to these problems would be diet related.However I have tried many. The problem is I have a very subpar di gestion, and probable intolerances to foods. Also the Acne problem that I also suffer somewhat gives me orthorexic tendencies.

These days I eat low pufa, high in animal foods (eggs,beef, some dairy[probably problematic for me]) some fruit, some starch (wheat,rice,potatoes).

 

[youngsinatra]

View attachment 29779

Can this be Kaiser-Fleischer ring?

Manganese blood test came back somewhat low as well. All of issues traces back to copper toxicity however I still wonder if its really true or Am I just speculating.

Started to take 15mg of zinc from picolinate daily and 4mg of manganese from biglysinate form. After the ingestion of supplements they increase the intensity of symptoms that I have (anxiety, palpitations etc) for a period of time (2-3 hours). Can this be due to copper dumping?

Thanks for the replies, The reason that I didnt respond to them because I have been dealing these issues since childhood and I have tried a lot of dietical interventions like carnivore diet, paleo, peat, even aajonus. I know all the questions to these problems would be diet related.However I have tried many. The problem is I have a very subpar di gestion, and probable intolerances to foods. Also the Acne problem that I also suffer somewhat gives me orthorexic tendencies.

These days I eat low pufa, high in animal foods (eggs,beef, some dairy[probably problematic for me]) some fruit, some starch (wheat,rice,potatoes).

I can attest of the copper dumping, it can be intense at times. If zinc supplementation is too harsh at times, then stick to mainly beef for now in combination with low copper foods.

Did you eat lots of organ meats like liver during your carnivore, paleo or aajonus times?

 

[laleto12]

I can attest of the copper dumping, it can be intense at times. If zinc supplementation is too harsh at times, then stick to mainly beef for now in combination with low copper foods.

Did you eat lots of organ meats like liver during your carnivore, paleo or aajonus times?

Hi, thanks I will lower the dosages and go from there.

I have been eating liver for i dont know how many years. I ate raw liver and offal in those diet as well, so yes.
Actually, the year I had my first panic attack I was eating so damn much chocolate ( Which I absolutely love still to this day btw) because I’ve been craving them a lot. Craving might have stemmed from undereating though.

So, meat was always there in my diet however high copper foods propaply were present in higher amounts. It feels like a endless cycle. Bad digestion —> lack of appetite —> undereating —-> low metabolism and so on.

Sometimes I feel so good that it baffles me and makes me think that I might be bipolar lol . Then I come down and other days are. just terrible

 

[youngsinatra]

Bad digestion, low appetite, low metabolism, panic attacks, anxiety is all so well known to me with excess copper.

Excess copper definitely mess up your psyche and I have noticed that many people who follow those primal liver-heavy diets for a year or more have disturbed mental health.

In my worst days I had almost psychosis-like symptoms and hell-ish anxiety and paranoia.
Now everything has cooled down and I feel pretty stable again if I keep copper intake relatively low.

 

[youngsinatra]

If you have good zinc status, you might not even need more zinc - then you just need time to excrete the excess of copper by keeping dietary intake low and supporting the liver to excrete copper into the bile and having some dietary fiber for final excretion into the stool to prevent reabsorption.

I did not take zinc or B3 for a few weeks now and I feel really good. I have benefited a lot from glycine, which is the endogenous methyl buffer. I took B3 beforehand for dealing with excess methylation due to copper, but glycine feels more balanced.

 

[laleto12]

If you have good zinc status, you might not even need more zinc - then you just need time to excrete the excess of copper by keeping dietary intake low and supporting the liver to excrete copper into the bile and having some dietary fiber for final excretion into the stool to prevent reabsorption.

I did not take zinc or B3 for a few weeks now and I feel really good. I have benefited a lot from glycine, which is the endogenous methyl buffer. I took B3 beforehand for dealing with excess methylation due to copper, but glycine feels more balanced.

I would have done a plasma zinc test but unfortunately i dont have access to that.

How do you take glycine (with meals? when? ) and in what dosage?

 

[redsun]

Too much manganese lowers GABA (by lowering glutamate, which is GABAs precursor) and this way it can make you go nuts and raise anxiety. Zinc in higher doses is also anti-gaba, but the dose you take is not quite there. The combination of the two could cause problems but zinc alone would likely not at that dose. Zinc is vital for digestion in many ways. Vitamin A intake dose-dependently lowers Ach synthesis, Ach being vital for digestive functions. In this way he can be disastrous and cause many digestive issues including loss of appetite, indigestion. The only way to remedy that is time (for the vitamin A to clear out of your system) and promoting cholinergic activity through zinc, choline, B-vitamins (especially B1 and B5), vitamin E. This overall will reduce anxiety/panic while promoting parasympathetic activities like digestion. Excess copper also opposes parasympathetic activity (raises norepinephrine too high, the main sympathetic neurotransmitter). High sympathetic tone will reduce parasympathetic functions like digestion by taking blood away from digestive organs and towards skeletal muscles, brain, and heart.

Manganese is not good to take or get in high amounts regularly (especially from fruits or supplements which seem to be the most absorbable). There is so little of it in the human body to begin with.

Vitamin A dose-dependently reduces acetylcholine synthesis as I already said, while vitamin E dose-dependently increases acetylcholine synthesis. This is why I say to try E and this may help your digestive issues.

EDIT: One more thing to add that I forgot. If you never tried vitamin D supplementation, this can raise GABA and calm down the nervous system. This also has to do with calcium. Vitamin A in excess promotes bone resorption and calcium loss. Vitamin D remedies that and promotes calcium retention. Calcium is a sedative mineral that helps prevent panic and anxiety by making the nervous system less reactive. But you need vitamin D to absorb it.

 

[laleto12]

Too much manganese lowers GABA (by lowering glutamate, which is GABAs precursor) and this way it can make you go nuts and raise anxiety. Zinc in higher doses is also anti-gaba, but the dose you take is not quite there. The combination of the two could cause problems but zinc alone would likely not at that dose. Zinc is vital for digestion in many ways. Vitamin A intake dose-dependently lowers Ach synthesis, Ach being vital for digestive functions. In this way he can be disastrous and cause many digestive issues including loss of appetite, indigestion. The only way to remedy that is time (for the vitamin A to clear out of your system) and promoting cholinergic activity through zinc, choline, B-vitamins (especially B1 and B5), vitamin E. This overall will reduce anxiety/panic while promoting parasympathetic activities like digestion. Excess copper also opposes parasympathetic activity (raises norepinephrine too high, the main sympathetic neurotransmitter). High sympathetic tone will reduce parasympathetic functions like digestion by taking blood away from digestive organs and towards skeletal muscles, brain, and heart.

Manganese is not good to take or get in high amounts regularly (especially from fruits or supplements which seem to be the most absorbable). There is so little of it in the human body to begin with.

Vitamin A dose-dependently reduces acetylcholine synthesis as I already said, while vitamin E dose-dependently increases acetylcholine synthesis. This is why I say to try E and this may help your digestive issues.

Hi, thank you for your reply. I wont take manganese regularly then, here and there should be okay I guess. Wish I would've known that before buying it The thing with vitamin A is that I might be deficient in it but I do not know. I have a history of taking high doses of vitamin D regularly although which did nothing in order to increase my very low levels. (Always below 20-30 ng/mL) and Vit A helps my acne( If I take retinyl palmitate). It kinda clears it up but then I ate a lot of Liver as well so I am not sure if I am deficient or not.

I have tried vitamin E - I went through the haidut's TocoVit and didnt see any improvements. It might have actually lowered my estrogen too much which caused some problems back then.

 

[redsun]

Hi, thank you for your reply. I wont take manganese regularly then, here and there should be okay I guess. Wish I would've known that before buying it The thing with vitamin A is that I might be deficient in it but I do not know. I have a history of taking high doses of vitamin D regularly although which did nothing in order to increase my very low levels. (Always below 20-30 ng/mL) and Vit A helps my acne( If I take retinyl palmitate). It kinda clears it up but then I ate a lot of Liver as well so I am not sure if I am deficient or not.

I have tried vitamin E - I went through the haidut's TocoVit and didnt see any improvements. It might have actually lowered my estrogen too much which caused some problems back then.

B-vitamins promote the metabolism of vitamin A into its active form retinoic acid along with zinc. Considering a history of liver consumption, I doubt the need for vitamin A but considering the acne you likely need the cofactors to make retinoic acid to improve your acne.

 

[youngsinatra]

Too much manganese lowers GABA (by lowering glutamate, which is GABAs precursor) and this way it can make you go nuts and raise anxiety. Zinc in higher doses is also anti-gaba, but the dose you take is not quite there. The combination of the two could cause problems but zinc alone would likely not at that dose. Zinc is vital for digestion in many ways. Vitamin A intake dose-dependently lowers Ach synthesis, Ach being vital for digestive functions. In this way he can be disastrous and cause many digestive issues including loss of appetite, indigestion. The only way to remedy that is time (for the vitamin A to clear out of your system) and promoting cholinergic activity through zinc, choline, B-vitamins (especially B1 and B5), vitamin E. This overall will reduce anxiety/panic while promoting parasympathetic activities like digestion. Excess copper also opposes parasympathetic activity (raises norepinephrine too high, the main sympathetic neurotransmitter). High sympathetic tone will reduce parasympathetic functions like digestion by taking blood away from digestive organs and towards skeletal muscles, brain, and heart.

Manganese is not good to take or get in high amounts regularly (especially from fruits or supplements which seem to be the most absorbable). There is so little of it in the human body to begin with.

Vitamin A dose-dependently reduces acetylcholine synthesis as I already said, while vitamin E dose-dependently increases acetylcholine synthesis. This is why I say to try E and this may help your digestive issues.

EDIT: One more thing to add that I forgot. If you never tried vitamin D supplementation, this can raise GABA and calm down the nervous system. This also has to do with calcium. Vitamin A in excess promotes bone resorption and calcium loss. Vitamin D remedies that and promotes calcium retention. Calcium is a sedative mineral that helps prevent panic and anxiety by making the nervous system less reactive. But you need vitamin D to absorb it.

This is good advice! I think both copper and retinol is problematic in the context of high liver consumption in the past.

My health improved a lot by cutting out vitamin A sources.

 

[Quelsatron]

If you have good zinc status, you might not even need more zinc - then you just need time to excrete the excess of copper by keeping dietary intake low and supporting the liver to excrete copper into the bile and having some dietary fiber for final excretion into the stool to prevent reabsorption.

I did not take zinc or B3 for a few weeks now and I feel really good. I have benefited a lot from glycine, which is the endogenous methyl buffer. I took B3 beforehand for dealing with excess methylation due to copper, but glycine feels more balanced.

Is the fiber necessary to excrete copper?