Natural Bodybuilding Competition With RP's-style Diet

[thms]

No; the body preferentially uses glucose (starch) to fill muscle glycogen moreso than liver glycogen.

I eat no starch, and I've been getting solid gains in the gym for the past couple years. You just need to eat a lot more sugar calories than starch calories.

Wouldnt this result in Fat gain?

What kind of physique have you built with Ray's guidelines? ( heitght weight bf%)

What do you reccomend for cutting bodyfat macro nutriënt / calorie wise?

 

[DaveFoster]

Wouldnt this result in Fat gain?

What kind of physique have you built with Ray's guidelines? ( heitght weight bf%)

What do you reccomend for cutting bodyfat macro nutriënt / calorie wise?

Not moreso than starch, but maybe a fatty liver.

I went from around 190 senior year of high school to about 220 over a couple years, and I went from 15% to 20% body fat; the fat is mostly from weight gainers like cyproheptadine and mirtazapine.

I'm planning to write an article on macronutrient ratios on my blog, but Lyle McDonald recommends the following:

- 0.82 g protein/lb LBM (lean-body mass)
- 0.5 - 1 g fat/lb LBM (the less fat you eat, the more carbohydrates you'll have to eat to compensate). Lower fat probably leads to better gains, so 0.5 g/lb is sufficient.
- 3-5 g/lb is probably optimal for a professional athlete or bodybuilder, but satiety should dictate what you eat.

Alternatively, you could eat a higher percentage of fat and lower carbs, if you have difficulties with carbs. Some do better on starch rather than sugar.

 

[redlight]

Is there any drugs/hormones that would be somewhat peaty in terms of holding on to muscle while cutting?

 

[tca300]

@thms Initially years ago, fruit did not work as well as starch for me, but after a few months of just fruit and lactose I started to notice the fruit working better and better at refilling glycogen. I dont eat starch anymore so I cant compare directly currently, but my workouts are better than ever with just fruit and lactose.

 

[tca300]

@redlight I have been below 10% several times with no drugs, and never looked skinny fat. Natural bodybuilders achieve below 10% all the time and look fine.

 

[redlight]

Here is what can achieve naturally without drugs until 1960's..

 

[redlight]

Did you get a dexa scan to verify sub 10% ?

 

[thms]

Not moreso than starch, but maybe a fatty liver.

I went from around 190 senior year of high school to about 220 over a couple years, and I went from 15% to 20% body fat; the fat is mostly from weight gainers like cyproheptadine and mirtazapine.

I'm planning to write an article on macronutrient ratios on my blog, but Lyle McDonald recommends the following:

- 0.82 g protein/lb LBM (lean-body mass)
- 0.5 - 1 g fat/lb LBM (the less fat you eat, the more carbohydrates you'll have to eat to compensate). Lower fat probably leads to better gains, so 0.5 g/lb is sufficient.
- 3-5 g/lb is probably optimal for a professional athlete or bodybuilder, but satiety should dictate what you eat.

Alternatively, you could eat a higher percentage of fat and lower carbs, if you have difficulties with carbs. Some do better on starch rather than sugar.

Think you

Ice read on this forum that you should drop fat to 35 g and up carbs to 500 to lose fat

Afraid that testosterone wil take a hit on this low a fat
Any experienences to be shared??

 

[DaveFoster]

Think you

Ice read on this forum that you should drop fat to 35 g and up carbs to 500 to lose fat

Afraid that testosterone wil take a hit on this low a fat
Any experienences to be shared??

Your sex drive will probably lower, but your T levels won't necessarily lower. It's harder to keep your blood sugar up with lower fat.

 

[tca300]

@thms I eat 18-22 grams of fat per day, my numbers on my lifts are still going up, and my libido has never been higher.

 

[tca300]

Dexa scan isn't very accurate, it varies from person to person on its accuracy. Caliber measuments are off by at most 3% if done correctly, averaging percentages over a weeks period. So if my measurments were indeed off by 3% in the lower direction, every time I tested, I suppose I might have never gotten below 10%.
Body composition changes in bodybuilders: a method comparison. - PubMed - NCBI
Percent body fat via DEXA: comparison with a four-compartment model. - PubMed - NCBI
Validity of methods of body composition assessment in young and older men and women. - PubMed - NCBI

Also I suspect body composition knowledge has evolved tremendously since the early 1900's, which would have been a limiting factor for them.. clearly... with the exception of Eugen Sandow, who looked fantastic.
@redlight

 

[thms]

@thms I eat 18-22 grams of fat per day, my numbers on my lifts are still going up, and my libido has never been higher.

What do you eat

Do you experince lethargy from sugar?

 

[tca300]

Skim milk, orange juice, coffee, gelatin, pineapple, hydrogenated coconut oil, and sometimes mushrooms and liver. No I don't. I think if sugar produces lethargy its probably because a person was stressed before eating it and now its allowing them to relax because stress hormones are lowered, OR, the person isn't healthy enough to process and use the sugar properly.

 

[thms]

I get

Skim milk, orange juice, coffee, gelatin, pineapple, hydrogenated coconut oil, and sometimes mushrooms and liver. No I don't. I think if sugar produces lethargy its probably because a person was stressed before eating it and now its allowing them to relax because stress hormones are lowered, OR, the person isn't healthy enough to process and use the sugar properly.

i get. Super lethargic after consuming either milk/oj/cane sugar

Also getting a huge dooamine rush of it

 

[grenade]

@DaveFoster @tca300 @Westside PUFAs what are your preferred methods of fat loss???

 

[DaveFoster]

@DaveFoster @tca300 @Westside PUFAs what are your preferred methods of fat loss???

Low-fat is the easiest way to lose weight.

 

[grenade]

Low-fat is the easiest way to lose weight.

Would you simply shift your macros to low fat while maintaining your calories, and do you lower calories as well?

I've had minor success with the former methodnin the past but cannot seem to replicate the results today.

 

[DaveFoster]

Would you simply shift your macros to low fat while maintaining your calories, and do you lower calories as well?

I've had minor success with the former methodnin the past but cannot seem to replicate the results today.

You can eat equivalent calories with lower fat, and you'll lose weight.

 

[grenade]

You can eat equivalent calories with lower fat, and you'll lose weight.

Gotcha, thanks. I'm having a harder time adhering and am eating more fat compared to my last run, which would explain things.. any reccomendations for an upper limit for fats? This for a 6'0" 200lb male sitting at 20%bf.

 

[tca300]

@grenade For me personally I have found that Keeping fat under 10% total calories, and keeping that fat as saturated as possible, through MCT oil and or hydrogenated coconut oil. Using fruit instead of starch, plenty of gelatin/glycine/taurine, plenty of salt, epsom salt foot soaks, lots of total body red light exposure ( I do about 7 minutes every 1-2 hours while awake), coffee, thyroid supplement ( if you are hypothyroid ) keeping track of my individual caloric needs and not exceeding them, lots of low intensity walking, sleep, and low volume intense heavy strength training twice per week. Basically what I do 24/7. Nicotine might help too ( never used it ). Using a real, good quality vitamin E is important, especially during fat loss. If your thyroid is working good, small amounts of DHEA can help too. Self experimentation is important I think.