RP Bodybuilding Style

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by slayers, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. slayers

    slayers Member

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    I'll keep this short and to the point. im 5'10" my off season weight is around 215 and competition weight is around 195
    I have been experimenting with diet for about 10 years now all types. Starting getting bad symptoms (libido hair loss) came accross peat, danny roddy.
    I have been bodybuilding for a few years now and going to start competitions. The staples in that community as you know is low fat, high protein with good complex carbs.

    How can I incorporate RP style with BB in my bulking and cutting seasons, ideally I need to get down to 4-6% bodyfat and getting as dry as possible.
    Do I stick with milk, oj, gelatin, foods? I"m having a hard time giving up lots of muscle meats in fear of wasting away my muscles.
    I want to compete and do well and i'm not convinced this is the diet for my goals, thoughts?
    I"m pretty open to giving this RP a solid go and see what kind of results it can give me when im bulking or cutting...Would my cutting diet be different than my bulking diet since my bulking would be just several hundred more calories daily? example whole milk for bulking and skim for cutting?
    any ideas would be awesome
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Slayers, welcome to the forum.

    Excess calories for bulking, calorie deficit while cutting? To get as "dry" as possible, there is nothing Ray Peat about that. Maybe nwo or cliff can chime in but truly, bodybuilding isnt exactly healthy I dont think. :confused
     
  3. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    As you probably know Ray Peat and Bodybuilding, especially serious bodybuilding are at odds But I think what you are asking is how to mitigate the damage you are doing whilst trying to gain the desired attributes.

    Its a myth in the BB world that you need tons of protein to build muscle - Most of it is broken down and used for energy so you may as well be using sugars from fruit for energy and lower protein. Calories should come from fruit and OJ, some from fat (Coconut oil etc) and dairy + gelatin for protein. Muscle meat a few times a week isn't anything to worry about.

    Excess calories also isn't really required, even in bodybuilding. Although it can be hard to judge, getting the right amount of calories, at most a small excess is all that is necessary while bulking - No point going over excess as its just stored as fat so whats the point, you may as well not eat the extra calories as you won't be putting on any extra muscle as a result of the dramatically excessive calories.

    This way of eating is healthy. I have never seen any bodybuilding diet that is healthy so its up to you. You can certainly mess around with calories etc by using the Ray Peat recommended foods but as Charlie has said - Bodybuilding and Ray Peat are at odds.

    On a simple note, if muscle is what you want the foods Ray Peat recommends are certainly a very good way to get there, there can be no doubt about that but the cutting in bodybuilding terms I can't really help you with as there is no Ray Peat approach for that as it isn't at all good for you.
     
  4. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    :yeahthat Good post kettlebell!
     
  5. OP
    slayers

    slayers Member

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    oats / honey / gelatin / whey protein / coffee
    during workout and after working out 32oz orange juice with gelatin / whey
    meat (chicken or beef), boiled potate / gelatin
    meat (chicken or beef), rice / gelatin
    snacks: almond butter, beef jerkey, more OJ
    32oz of raw skim milk drank throughout day sometimes up to 64oz if im eating less meat
    this is a basic sample I have been trying to follow
     
  6. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    Hi Slayer,

    Almond butter is about 12% poly fat. Probably best to minimise its use. It does have a lot of good minerals in it though. Might be worth thinking about replacing on or two meals with seafood instead of a meat/chicken. Say shellfish or something like that. If you are using whey it causes a massive insulin spike so post workout really should be the only time in my opinion (If at all).

    Get some Melon and grapes in there too. Each feeding should have Sugar,protein and fat + ideally a bit of salt too for stress hormone suppression as you will have a lot of those thanks to your chosen discipline.


    I would be interested to hear how your training progresses.
     
  7. jaketthomas

    jaketthomas Member

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    Slayer,

    You need to get rid of the oats, whey protein, and almond butter. Almond butter is too high in poly and monounsaturated fatty acids. Stick with more saturated fats. There is absolutely no benefit whatsoever to having oats in your diet. They're highly allergenic, starchy, and contain little nutrition. Whey Protein is supremely allergenic, high in tryptophan, usually has multiple gums in it, contains denatured proteins, and excess protein is absolutely pointless to have in your diet.

    5'10", 215 off-season isn't very big. It's bigger than your average person, but it's certainly not bodybuilder caliber. What kind of bodybuilding contests do you enter, where the competitors are so small? I'm not trying to sound disrespectful, but if you're harming your body to the point of losing your hair and libido, just for building muscles, maybe this isn't the right hobby for you?

    All you need to do to build muscle is to train and eat enough calories. As long as you're getting "enough" protein, around 100g a day, any more is going to waste. Bodybuilders take in excess protein, simply because they've been fooled by the supplement companies. The supplement companies have built a trillion dollar industry, selling protein supplements, that tax the liver, kidneys, acidify the blood, and poison you on a small scale. Totally unnecessary. No one in a civilized country has a protein issue, unless you're a strict raw food vegan.

    Consume OJ, Milk, Coconut Oil, Gelatin, Beef, Lamb, Eggs, Grapes, Raw Carrots, Oysters, and if you need more calories, Potatoes and White Rice are good in a pinch. You need to get the idea out of your head that you need protein supplements.
     
  8. key

    key Member

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    oats(fine if well-cooked) / honey / gelatin / whey protein(milk powder is better cuz it has casein&whey+more nutrients, fresh milk would be even better) / coffee
    during workout and after working out 32oz orange juice with gelatin / whey(same as above)
    meat (chicken or beef), boiled potate / gelatin (ideally you want fructose every meal)
    meat (chicken or beef), rice / gelatin
    snacks: almond butter, beef jerkey, more OJ
    32oz of raw skim milk drank throughout day sometimes up to 64oz if im eating less meat

    Doesn't seem like that much food. Basic bodybuilder bulker recs is 1g protein/lb ffm, 6-10g carb/kg bw, lots of calories.

    So for you 510 215 -bulk ~150-190g protein ~600-800g carbs and about 5000-6000(more or less as needed) cals
    cut ~150-190g protein ~600-800g carbs and about 4000-4500(more or less as needed) cals

    You want to drink a gallon of milk(128g protein) either way 2-3%(bulk) skim-1%(cut). Probably wanna make chocolate syrup to add more carbs/nutrients to the milk. So you drink a gallon of chocolate milk everyday with as much OJ,egg,meat,gelatin,potatoes, rice, oats, coconut oil as you want to meet calorie/nutrient needs(cronometer.com)
     
  9. Asimov

    Asimov Member

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    You're gonna get the worst body building advice in the history of the world if you get it from this site.
     
  10. cliff

    cliff Member

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    I doubt that haha, you obviously haven't seen the type of retarded advice people give
     
  11. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Nope it can be done. You can eat the RP way and gain a shedload of muscle. I have a friend, who I will keep anonymous, but he is a former Mr Oz. He is still able to carry around a lot of muscle eating RP style. Well cooked potatoes and masa tortillas (or even make them into pita breads etc) will be your only starches. You just need to eat a bit more than the average Peatian but you can stick to all the staples (plenty of pastured eggs, milk, cheese, prawns etc). You DO NOT need muscle meats to get big. And to balance out all the AAS I would recommend a lot of pregnenolone, like at least 200mg daily. 1-2mg DHEA daily should help too. Plenty of aspirin (and fit K2) to reduce aromatase. Lots of coconut oil. Lots of salt and lots of sugar. I can easily see that if I turned back to bodybuilding, I could get bigger eating the RP way than I ever could on the supposed bodybuilding diet.

    In fact back in the day a former top 3 at the Universe heavyweights did a whole contest diet drinking mainly skim milk, lol.
     
  12. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Wrong!
     
  13. Asimov

    Asimov Member

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    I don't know if "do steroids and take aspirin" is cutting edge bodybuilding advice. For the record, you can gain plenty of muscle mass on a ray peat diet. For the record, you can gain plenty of muscle mass on any diet ever recorded in the history of humanity of you take AAS and over-eat.

    The real barrier between ideologies (as I see it) lies in minimizing inflammation, keeping your body sensitive to insulin and thyroid, and maintaining high levels of dairy and fructose consumption while cutting to 2% body fat pre-contest.

    I suspect that Ray Peat wouldn't even try to field this query. In his mind (at least I think, if I'm reading his mind correctly) his dietary concerns are geared towards increasing health and longevity. Bodybuilding, by practice, is a sport concerned solely with near term aesthetics at the expense of health and longevity.
     
  14. cliff

    cliff Member

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    I don't think ray cares what you use his recommendations for. I would be interested to see what he says but I have a feeling I already know :P

    It's extremely easy to gain muscle on a peat style diet, the hardest part would be cutting safely. Utilizing low cals, nutrient dense food and lsoing slowly/having patients are key. I forgot his name but there is an older body builder who was known for being super shredded, his cut diet was high carb with skim milk.
     
  15. pboy

    pboy Member

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    Cut back OJ and coffee by about half, increase/maintain milk and add dates, throw in some eggs and/or shellfish time to time and im sure you'd be able to gain muscle, granted
    you trained and slept well. That's pretty similar to what's recommended in the bodybuilding field, minus the meat and replacing brown rice with OJ/dates, and replacing protein supplements with actual milk. It seems like the Peat version would just be healthier
     
  16. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Where did I say that? Thank god for the ignore abilities on this forum.
     
  17. Asimov

    Asimov Member

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    If that's not what exactly what you said, then I'll be a monkeys uncle. Take steroids, balance it out by taking pregnenolone and aspirin. What did I miss???? It's literally exactly what you told it....... If you'd like to clarify to the man, feel free. If you're being a whiny baby and ignoring people who disagree with you, good luck with your interpersonal relationships in life.

    I can picture you plugging your ears and screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH, I'M NOT LISTENING!!!" when your wife tells you that you need to take out the garbage.
     
  18. OP
    slayers

    slayers Member

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    It's a natural local competition....

    I agree with Cliff, gaining weight/muscle isn't the issue it's the losing factor while retaining muscle.
    Why cut down on the coffee?

    The biggest thing that takes a hit when I am trying to lose weight is my Libido.... Everything else seems to be in check.
     
  19. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    You can still utilise T3 in 'Natural' shows as it is allowed in all sports. I think it is easy to cut but hard to do so and still remain in a low-stress environment (physiologically speaking of course). But I believe eating good protein sources and just making sure to get just enough sugar so as to avoid hypoglycaemia is a way to cutting a lot of fat. I have done so myself as I was overdoing the carbs for a while whilst Peating. Then there is of course DNP, which many 'Natural' guys I know use, and in a way is very Peat friendly (uncoupler of Mitochondria).

    Aspirin still stands as useful for the same reason, aromatase. Plus I do not see why pregnenolone, and possibly DHEA, would not be allowed in such a competition.
     
  20. Asimov

    Asimov Member

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    I don't see how DNP would be "Peat friendly". It inhibits oxidative phosphorlation, by definition mandating anaerobic glycolysis and all the bad things that Ray Peat is diametrically opposed to in human metabolism (fermentation, production of lactic acid, desaturation with Co2 etc). So...it's not Peat friendly in any way...and that's the good news.....

    The bad news is DNP will raise your temperature to 110 degrees and melt your brain if you take too much of it, as opposed to NDT, which will do nothing if you take too much of it. The LD50 of DNP is around 2X the the standard effective dose. When your margin of error between effective weight loss and melting liver is a standard deviation, I'd think twice about the drug.

    I think this guy is WAY off base on his understanding of Peat principles and general human physiology. DNP is pretty scary stuff to be using for a local natural bodybuilding show......
     
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