Music

[energyandstruct]

Yeah I’m a big Elliott Smith and nick drake fan too. Actually wrote a song that I feel is influenced a lot by the latter

Lucid Angel
this one

 

[energyandstruct]

healthwise you are much better off listening to classical music or opera. Just avoid all the atonal discordant stuff.
Rock music can have a very negative effect on your psyche and well being. The lyrics do even worse things to your brain.

this strikes me as very narrow and wrong.

Binaural beats apparently are great for people's health and they are made using very close dissonances (that's what produces the characteristic beatings). I understand the need to live a healthy life, but food restriction is one thing, music restriction another. Surely listening to anything that is good art, whether it's sad or not, is good for you. I just can't imagine living without music that has pathos. also there is "atonal" and "discordant" classical music. Most rock music is not "atonal" at all. In fact, it is built strongly on tonal refrains. it's usually almost the opposite of atonal

 

[energyandstruct]

here's one of my favorite recent songwriters, vic chestnutt. he killed himself but for different reasons, got ****88 over by the medical system, was deep in debt and couldn't afford surgery. It makes me viscerally angry at the system we have... I try not to get too political but just watching vic's talent and wit and knowing that he couldn't afford to live in this world makes me wanna kill an insurance CEO or something... (if the FBI is watching that's a joke, i'm harmless as a flea)

 

[energyandstruct]

I've also been listening to all of joy division's discography, it's pretty incredible

 

[energyandstruct]

Elliott Smith : Suicide by self-inflicted stab to the heart





Jeff Buckley : death by misadventure (suspected drowning)



Nick Drake : Overdose



Nick Drake- Riverman

if you like elliott you might like alex g:

 

[energyandstruct]

 

[energyandstruct]

 

[energyandstruct]

I do also really like the goldberg variations and in fact any bach

 

[x-ray peat]

this strikes me as very narrow and wrong.

Binaural beats apparently are great for people's health and they are made using very close dissonances (that's what produces the characteristic beatings). I understand the need to live a healthy life, but food restriction is one thing, music restriction another. Surely listening to anything that is good art, whether it's sad or not, is good for you. I just can't imagine living without music that has pathos. also there is "atonal" and "discordant" classical music. Most rock music is not "atonal" at all. In fact, it is built strongly on tonal refrains. it's usually almost the opposite of atonal

That’s not what the research says. If you believe that binaural beats can have positive health effects then it shouldn’t be that surprising that other types of music can have negative health effects. It's the same with other senses as well. They all have affects on the brain through neuroplasticity.

I am not trying to keep anyone from listening to whatever they want to listen to. I also listen to rock (you may notice from my avatar that we have some commonality in tastes), but I still don’t think it’s a good idea to listen to certain types of music exclusively or for extended periods of time without understanding that there is a health consequence.

 

[energyandstruct]

That’s not what the research says. If you believe that binaural beats can have positive health effects then it shouldn’t be that surprising that other types of music can have negative health effects. It's the same with other senses as well. They all have affects on the brain through neuroplasticity.

I am not trying to keep anyone from listening to whatever they want to listen to. I also listen to rock (you may notice from my avatar that we have some commonality in tastes), but I still don’t think it’s a good idea to listen to certain types of music exclusively or for extended periods of time without understanding that there is a health consequence.

where is the research that backs up what you're saying? also I brought up binaural beats because there's research that shows that they help with relaxation and they are dissonant intervals--which you said are bad. I just think the idea of what is good music is more culturally constructed than universal. If you show me research that shows otherwise I'd be interested

 

[energyandstruct]

I think binaural beats are a little different inasmuch as they are not really music but just experienced as sound, and they are very simple, specific sounds aimed at inducing an effect. Music is way more semantically/symbolically complex and aimed at inducing too many effects that I don't think it can be reduced to negative vs positive health effects

 

[x-ray peat]

where is the research that backs up what you're saying? also I brought up binaural beats because there's research that shows that they help with relaxation and they are dissonant intervals--which you said are bad. I just think the idea of what is good music is more culturally constructed than universal. If you show me research that shows otherwise I'd be interested

I think binaural beats are a little different inasmuch as they are not really music but just experienced as sound, and they are very simple, specific sounds aimed at inducing an effect. Music is way more semantically/symbolically complex and aimed at inducing too many effects that I don't think it can be reduced to negative vs positive health effects

There are quite a few studies but here is one to get you started
Non-expert listeners show decreased heart rate and increased blood pressure (fear bradycardia) in response to atonal music

and just to clarify, binaural beats are not the same as atonal music

 

[energyandstruct]

There are quite a few studies but here is one to get you started
Non-expert listeners show decreased heart rate and increased blood pressure (fear bradycardia) in response to atonal music

and just to clarify, binaural beats are not the same as atonal music

Don't you see how this could be culturally constructed though? People show increased blood pressure in response to almost anything familiar. It's totally a limited kind of experimentation that I feel that ray would oppose.



Like, if you played Mozart for an uncontacted tribe I'm pretty sure they would show a similar fear response--these kind of stress responses occur to someone when they encounter something unfamiliar.

I'm pretty sure if you played, say, ancient greek music with just intonation to modern americans, they would show a similar response, but if you played it for ancient greeks they wouldn't have that response.

I think these kind of studies are simplistic and don't really prove anything. 'Once during a lecture, Alfred Korzybski offered his students some cookies, which they seemed to enjoy, then he showed them a label on the bag, “dog cookies,” and some of them felt sick. "I have just demonstrated that people don't just eat food, but also words, and that the taste of the former is often outdone by the taste of the latter."'

this effect applies to music too.

Also, people who eat spicey food or lift weights or watch horror movies don't have worse long term health, I don't think there's any proof that exposing yourself to stressors in a controlled setting is bad for you. Ray's opposition to stressors is more nuanced and has to do with things that put you in anaerobic metabolism (like cardio exercise) for long periods of time. Exposing yourself to novelty inevitably means exposing yourself to things that might raise your blood pressure temporarily. Living a life in which things are carefully curated to not raise your blood pressure the way inoffensive art and beige/light green coloring is chosen for hospital decor, can't be good for your mind in general.

 

[energyandstruct]

i

Don't you see how this could be culturally constructed though? People show increased blood pressure in response to almost anything familiar. It's totally a limited kind of experimentation that I feel that ray would oppose.



Like, if you played Mozart for an uncontacted tribe I'm pretty sure they would show a similar fear response--these kind of stress responses occur to someone when they encounter something unfamiliar.

I'm pretty sure if you played, say, ancient greek music with just intonation to modern americans, they would show a similar response, but if you played it for ancient greeks they wouldn't have that response.

I think these kind of studies are simplistic and don't really prove anything. 'Once during a lecture, Alfred Korzybski offered his students some cookies, which they seemed to enjoy, then he showed them a label on the bag, “dog cookies,” and some of them felt sick. "I have just demonstrated that people don't just eat food, but also words, and that the taste of the former is often outdone by the taste of the latter."'

this effect applies to music too.

Also, people who eat spicey food or lift weights or watch horror movies don't have worse long term health, I don't think there's any proof that exposing yourself to stressors in a controlled setting is bad for you. Ray's opposition to stressors is more nuanced and has to do with things that put you in anaerobic metabolism (like cardio exercise) for long periods of time. Exposing yourself to novelty inevitably means exposing yourself to things that might raise your blood pressure temporarily. Living a life in which things are carefully curated to not raise your blood pressure the way inoffensive art and beige/light green coloring is chosen for hospital decor, can't be good for your mind in general.

i mean you're right that specific musics generally have certain effects, but those effects are symbolically and culturally mediated, and that just means that certain music, like certain art, is best suited for specific purposes. Some music is good to relax to and some isn't, I don't think that means any of the "discordant" music you're talking about is universally bad for you.

It's kind of like saying that being in love is bad for you--it might raise your blood pressure acutely, we are all familiar with the "fear response" that really intense love brings, but does that mean it's not worth being in love? with that stress also comes a number of benefits. It would not be worth living life without love, and I say the same about the variety of music that is great music even if it can be overly sad or stressful

 

[x-ray peat]

Don't you see how this could be culturally constructed though? People show increased blood pressure in response to almost anything familiar. It's totally a limited kind of experimentation that I feel that ray would oppose.



Like, if you played Mozart for an uncontacted tribe I'm pretty sure they would show a similar fear response--these kind of stress responses occur to someone when they encounter something unfamiliar.

I'm pretty sure if you played, say, ancient greek music with just intonation to modern americans, they would show a similar response, but if you played it for ancient greeks they wouldn't have that response.

I think these kind of studies are simplistic and don't really prove anything. 'Once during a lecture, Alfred Korzybski offered his students some cookies, which they seemed to enjoy, then he showed them a label on the bag, “dog cookies,” and some of them felt sick. "I have just demonstrated that people don't just eat food, but also words, and that the taste of the former is often outdone by the taste of the latter."'

this effect applies to music too.

Also, people who eat spicey food or lift weights or watch horror movies don't have worse long term health, I don't think there's any proof that exposing yourself to stressors in a controlled setting is bad for you. Ray's opposition to stressors is more nuanced and has to do with things that put you in anaerobic metabolism (like cardio exercise) for long periods of time. Exposing yourself to novelty inevitably means exposing yourself to things that might raise your blood pressure temporarily. Living a life in which things are carefully curated to not raise your blood pressure the way inoffensive art and beige/light green coloring is chosen for hospital decor, can't be good for your mind in general.

I think Ray would trust his instinct as well as the science and not rely so much on post modern rationalizations of cultural relativism.

They have done studies with fetuses and have shown the different health impacts of various types of music. Unless you believe that culture is somehow transmitted epigenetically, your theory is not supported by the science.

 

[x-ray peat]

i

i mean you're right that specific musics generally have certain effects, but those effects are symbolically and culturally mediated, and that just means that certain music, like certain art, is best suited for specific purposes. Some music is good to relax to and some isn't, I don't think that means any of the "discordant" music you're talking about is universally bad for you.

It's kind of like saying that being in love is bad for you--it might raise your blood pressure acutely, we are all familiar with the "fear response" that really intense love brings, but does that mean it's not worth being in love? with that stress also comes a number of benefits. It would not be worth living life without love, and I say the same about the variety of music that is great music even if it can be overly sad or stressful

love is a different response than fear. again I am not saying to completely avoid these types of music just as I wouldnt suggest never seeing a horror movie. But people should be aware that there is a consequence to staying in these states for too long.

 

[energyandstruct]

I think Ray would trust his instinct as well as the science and not rely so much on post modern rationalizations of cultural relativism.

They have done studies with fetuses and have shown the different health impacts of various types of music. Unless you believe that culture is somehow transmitted epigenetically, your theory is not supported by the science.

I don't think you really addressed all of my points. It wouldn't be good for a fetus to be exposed to certain concentrations of caffeine either, but that doesn't mean that caffeine is bad for you in general. What is good for a developing child/fetus isn't generalizable as what's good for humans in general

 

[energyandstruct]

love is a different response than fear. again I am not saying to completely avoid these types of music just as I wouldnt suggest never seeing a horror movie. But people should be aware that there is a consequence to staying in these states for too long.

Idk, I've been in love, and it brought a lot of stress states with it. But it was still worth it. The classic "my heart is dropping into my stomach" feeling in love is probably associated with increased blood pressure. The point is that these states are more emotionally and physiologically complex than "bad" or "good".

Love also often brings with it loss and grief, since nothing lasts forever, and those states are certainly associated with increased blood pressure and poor health outcomes (people often die of a broken heart, literally). does that mean nobody should fall in love?

 

[x-ray peat]

I don't think you really addressed all of my points. It wouldn't be good for a fetus to be exposed to certain concentrations of caffeine either, but that doesn't mean that caffeine is bad for you in general. What is good for a developing child/fetus isn't generalizable as what's good for humans in general

I think you missed my point.

 

[energyandstruct]

I think you missed my point.

your point seems pretty clear. you think that discordant, atonal music is bad for people. I think that's silly.