Movement: How Important Is It?

[Curt :-)]

Hello you cheeky rascals.
I've been thinking a lot about movement. I myself am a big believer in adequate, non stressful movement (mostly relaxed walking) and stretching. I find that movement helps regulate the bowels, keep the mind clear and keep the body from locking up (for example; tight hip flexors from excess sitting), among other benefits.

What are your thoughts on the importance of movement, and what has been your experience with it?

 

[charlie]

Agree with your findings.

 

[jaa]

I also agree with your findings. I find my sense of body awareness correlates with a better functioning mind. As does a pain free body. Movement can also be very meditative and enjoyable.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

I've found a daily 20-30 minute casual walk in the sun with my dog to be the most health and mood improving thing I've ever done. It also seems to help maintain a low body fat percentage, despite the fact that it burns hardly any extra calories. I don't know the mechanism, but it's interesting to speculate.

Some research looking at the respiratory exchange ratio (RER) in people who do light exercise, shows that it significantly improves ability to burn fat overnight or while fasting, and ability to burn glucose after a meal. This may be due to exercise stimulating mitochondrial biogenesis. J. Stanton has an interesting take on this: http://www.gnolls.org/3637/what-is-...ntons-ahs-2013-presentation-including-slides/

 

[Blossom]

Peat wrote something to the effect that a walk in interesting surroundings uses more energy than jogging because it engages our brain. I don't have the exact quote at hand but I will post it if I find it. I've always felt best with moderate movement but felt guilty in the past if I didn't do a prescribed amount of exercise. Now I just pay attention to what my body desires and I'm much better off for it.

 

[narouz]

Yes, Blossom, I read that too.
But that seems to be about as far as Peat goes
in terms of recommending physical exercise.
Well, he does, when asked, say that concentric exercise is good.
But overall, Peat doesn't seem to be very interested in exercise

In our culture,
which associates exercise with health,
that seems very strange.
It did to me at first.

You'd kinda think he might recommend something like yoga or tai chi or somesuch...
But not really...not as far as I've read/heard.
Sure, someone might call in to an interview and ask him if yoga is okay,
and he'll say something like,
"Oh, that's fine."
Which translates, to me, to mean:
"Yeah, that probably won't hurt you."

Just not an exercise enthusiast.

 

[j.]

gretchen had some posts on the dangers of yoga.

 

[Kasper]

I think that yoga can be helpfull for people that have developed really bad postures through the years.
I find it hard to see what could be dangerous about yoga, maybe stretching yourself too much or something like that ?

 

[narouz]

I know what you mean, Kasper.
On the other hand,
I was trying to think about yoga
in the context of what Peat says
about concentric vs eccentric exercise.

As I understand it
eccentric excercise occurs
when you stretch a muscle under load.

In a Sun Salutation, for example,
one hangs over, at one point,
and lets the torso pull/stretch the hamstrings/muscles.

Would that qualify as an eccentric exercise?

 

[Curt :-)]

All good points guys.
In regards to yoga, I dont think it is necessary to maintain flexibility because I dont think one needs to be "flexible", they just need to be balanced. By balanced I simply mean not having "structural imbalances" such as tight hip flexors that pull the pelvic girdle out of alignment. Another classic imbalance is the old upper cross syndrome; rounded shoulders caused by pecs/deltoids that are too tight/tonic for their opposing muscle group, the rhomboids.
I think stretching only the muscles that need stretching is the key because, using rounded shoulders as the example, if you continue to stretch the rhomboids when they're already lacking tension in relation to their antagonizing muscle group, it will further move the body away from alignment. This causes stress from a structural standpoint. Yoga tends to stretch most muscles instead of just stretching what needs to be stretched.
This is a concept I got from Paul Chek (I was a fan many moons ago) and it has served me incredibly well. I never have any pain and have never been injured despite playing sports and strength training regularly since high school.
My 2 cents

 

[BingDing]

Peat wrote something to the effect that a walk in interesting surroundings uses more energy than jogging because it engages our brain. I don't have the exact quote at hand but I will post it if I find it. I've always felt best with moderate movement but felt guilty in the past if I didn't do a prescribed amount of exercise. Now I just pay attention to what my body desires and I'm much better off for it.

+1, Blossom. I hadn't seen that, but it fits with my experience. Some years ago I decided to try to see 300 birds in Virginia in one year. Which meant I was outside a lot, but not moving very fast! Birding is about as low physical energy as any activity, it's walking slow and stopping a lot, sometimes for hours in spring migration, but it involves being extroverted and totally engaged with the habitat/microworld around you. I lost probably 30 pounds that year and I've never been able to explain why.

Ray Peat nails it again; I've quit being surprised by that.

As to the OPs topic, for me it's sorta putting the scratch before the itch. I've always had minor muscle and joint pains and done God only knows how much stretching and massage therapy, and it never did any long term good or seldom any short term good. But a couple times since I started following Ray's advice I've hit a stretch where my body pretty much disappears from my consciousness, it just does what I want and everything works without any pain or drama. I attributed it to having minerals/electrolytes dialed in, not sure but that seems likely.

It's an interesting topic.

 

[tara]

I think that yoga can be helpfull for people that have developed really bad postures through the years.
I find it hard to see what could be dangerous about yoga, maybe stretching yourself too much or something like that ?

Yoga is not all about stretching - you can use it to build a lot of strength, too.

I have found yoga very helpful to me when I have done it, especially going to classes with good teachers. It makes a noticable difference to my posture for days after a class, improves my energy levels and my ability to be calm and cheerful. Even after a strong backbend workout, I would sleep well. In retrospect, I'm sure it improved my breathing, though some yoga teachers mistakenly encourage too much deep breathing to the neglect of the tradition of restraining breath.

I have also injured myself in yoga classes, a couple of times badly enough to be a little disabled in the rest of my life for several month afterwards. There are dangers. A good teacher will be aware of these and help avoid them; a less well-informed teacher can suggest things that are unwise. Some teachers tend to push people to extremes, others encourage people to pay attention to what will best serve them on a particular day.

I also find walking good for me - posture, ease in my body, attention to the world around, keeping my innards working, getting me out in the daylight. As long as I make sure I am well fuelled. I guess our bodies are designed to move a lot in gentle ways, and occasionally in more strenuous ways.

 

[Mittir]

Well, he does, when asked, say that concentric exercise is good.
But overall, Peat doesn't seem to be very interested in exercise

In our culture,
which associates exercise with health,
that seems very strange.
It did to me at first.

You'd kinda think he might recommend something like yoga or tai chi or somesuch...
But not really...not as far as I've read/heard.

He recognizes benefits of yoga and tai chi.Yoga (probably tai chi) is simply not about
posture, it dictates whole life style including diet and breathing.
I think in the radio interview guy asked RP if yoga postures are stressful or not.
RP said it is not. I have noticed in America everything becomes fast food like,
including yoga. Real yoga is very very gentle and you are not supposed to force
anything in posture, everything should happen naturally. I have noticed that
in yoga many of the very powerful postures are very simple and
most acrobatic difficult postures do not have major benefits.
Example, sitting cross legged with erect spine ( lotus position) is said to
destroy all diseases. I think a real yoga teacher will have difficult time
getting clients in America because of it's slow pace. There used to be
a PBS program on yoga for older people or something like that.
She seemed quite in tune with real spirit of yoga.
In my teenage years i did extensive yoga for several years and i
found it super amazing. But, if you are feeling real good then yoga
or other exercise are not gonna add much to it. That is probably why RP does not talk
much about exercise, even the healthier ones. I am planning to add yoga soon
to see if i get any major benefits from it. I like the idea of feeling great without
doing any kind of exercise. According to my teacher and my experience
yogic breathings have more dramatic benefits than yoga postures.
Eating more carb, better thyroid function and bag breathing should cover it.

 

[HDD]

I tried Bikram hot yoga a few weeks ago because a family member goes regularly and says it is supposed to help thyroid. I read the threads on this forum about it first and was prepared to not do deep breathing. I also took in carbonated water with OJ. Over an hour after the class was over, my heart rate was at 99 bpm. This was not uncomfortable. I felt good all day and did not use thyroid that day. My heart rate was at 83 went I went to bed. Could the higher heart rate be from stress hormones and not really be a good thing?

 

[SQu]

Birdwatching! I used to do that too. It also gets you out into some beautiful places. Like you I noticed benefits, in my case, improved sleep. Thanks Bingding! This is another way in which I'm coming full circle. How could I have lost my way so long, so badly? Right, where are those binoculars?

 

[narouz]

He recognizes benefits of yoga and tai chi.Yoga (probably tai chi) is simply not about
posture, it dictates whole life style including diet and breathing.

I think the thing about Peat
that was kinda hard for me to wrap my brain completely around
is how skeptical he is
of any system (belief system, exercise system, etc)
based upon--explicitly or tacitly--
an ideological or religious or supernatural view of life.

Now yoga...
I used to know about its origins.
Can't remember.
I believe it came out of India, didn't it?
Was it allied with Hinduism?

I do a little yoga
and I don't think of it in a religious context.
Maybe a bit "spiritual" in a certain sense.
But I wonder if Peat is more suspicious....

Take another example:
I've always been intrigued by traditional chinese medicine,
accupuncture, the energy meridians, the 5 Elements, etc.
But I've never heard Peat reference that stuff.

Maybe that implies a skepticism or even a suspicion on his part.
Maybe it just means he has no interest.

Mittir, I defer to you on Peat's recognition of the benefits of yoga and tai chi.
Personally, I've been struck by how little,
like never,
I've heard him address somebody's health complaints
by referring them to a traditional exercise system.
Like: if someone has a sore lower back,
I've never heard him say
"Oh, doing some yoga is very good for that."
He'll more likely say something like
"Most lower back pain is related to endotoxin,"
or somesuch.

Peat is, of course, extremely "alternative" in terms of his location
within today's health gestalts.
At the same time though
he doesn't seem to me to be very "New Age-y,"
with its far-flung spiritual embrace.

Many, if not most, accept an implicit spiritual dimension
in their practice of yoga.
Maybe it is that which Peat sortuv recoils from.
I am, of course, speculating.

I remember when Peat was asked in an interview
about meditation,
Peat felt the need to rephrase the question
into something like,
"If, by meditation, you mean bringing awareness to an experience..."
I think he wanted to strain off any connotation of the religious or spiritual from the word.

Some forms of yoga--Ashtanga, for instance-- emphasize the breath,
and basing movements upon breath.
Those forms of yoga can leave one quite breathless and sweaty.

Personally, I'm all for experimentation with exercises.
It's just that I haven't found much well-articulated inspiration in PeatWorld for that.

 

[j.]

I think narouz, exercise is not something to do to get healthy, exercise is something to do when you're healthy and have excess energy.

 

[SQu]

I'm not a fan of exercise but I need some to feel a little bit better with stamina, strength, mood, stiffness. Even though I'm not recovered enough to have excess energy. Any exercise quickly becomes a chore, probably because I'm not yet strong enough. Even the nice kinds discussed. Even 10 gentle minutes a few days a week. It's an ongoing dilemma.

 

[Mittir]

I tried Bikram hot yoga a few weeks ago because a family member goes regularly and says it is supposed to help thyroid. I read the threads on this forum about it first and was prepared to not do deep breathing. I also took in carbonated water with OJ. Over an hour after the class was over, my heart rate was at 99 bpm. This was not uncomfortable. I felt good all day and did not use thyroid that day. My heart rate was at 83 went I went to bed. Could the higher heart rate be from stress hormones and not really be a good thing?

This reminds me of RP's experience in Florida, where he could not take thyroid med
due to high temperature and humidity and his blood pressure or pulse dropped dangerously low
but he felt fine. I think sweating in sauna like high temperature environment was the
reason for feeling good. People need less thyroid med in summer than in winter.
You may feel same by sitting in a Bikram Yoga studio without doing any yoga.
RP did not clarify if there is any adverse effect from excessive sweating.
Besides dehydration, loss of minerals, particularly sodium is a known side effect.
But, living in a warm environment is definitely metabolism boosting.
If your sleep quality was good then it was most likely not due to stress hormones.

 

[tca300]

Movement is Essential!!! I apologize if someone already mentioned this but one of the first things I advise for people I have worked with is to Move your body! The lymphatic system is the reason we NEED to move. The Lymphatic system is used to carry waste, toxins etc away from cells to be destroyed and or removed from the body via lymph fluid that runs through lymph vessels in our body. The catch however is the lymphatic system has no pump. Our blood is pumped throughout our body by the heart, well, there is a lot more lymph fluid in our body than there is blood . The Only way to pump and get lymph fluid moving is through muscle contraction, light massaging of the skin, and increased gravitational load. So basically exercise, lymphatic massages, and things like bouncing on a trampoline move the lymph fluid through our body. If we sit all day our lymph is stagnant. Being sedentary severely compromises our bodies ability to detoxify itself, and lowers our immune system. There are cells in our body where blood doesn't quit reach too, guess what helps carry nutrients and oxygen to those cells?? The LYMPH SYSTEM. Anyone who is truly interested in complete health must move on a daily basis, without question! I don't mean running marathons or other stressful garbage like that, but simply walking often throughout the day, lightly bouncing on a trampoline several times a day for a few minutes, and light calisthenics etc.