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But antibiotics themselves are not 100% effective, and never kill 100% of bacteria. Sure, they may indeed kill off most bacteria, seeming to keep the culture "sterile," or slow the replication of bacteria so that instead of taking over the culture in a matter of hours, it would take a matter of months. But neither condition is "sterile," although the latter might appear so to humans.The second postulate refers to purity as in no other microorganisms growing, not purity as you'd refer to a supplement. Like I said, whether it's bacterial or tissue culture, you need a medium to grow them in.
See above, you need those things to grow cells in vitro -- it's not a shortcut that they're using, it's a necessity to use media and growth factors for cell culture.
But, as noted above, they don't create a "pure" culture medium. More likely, the illusion of one. And if they didn't bother to eliminate the known microflora from the human sample, like bacteria and other known viruses, then the sample was obviously contaminated from the get go. Again, a violation of the second postulate.The antibiotics are in there to create a pure culture. Obviously the donor sample is not pure.
- The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
Koch’s postulates have been satisfied for SARS-CoV-2
Not only can you see viruses, but Koch’s postulates have been satisfied for the SARS-CoV-2 virus in this paper and the results were published in Nature:
Our results demonstrate the pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 in mice, which—together with previous clinical studies1—completely satisfies Koch’s postulates7 and confirms that SARS-CoV-2 is the pathogen responsible for COVID-19.
Oh, it's difficult, time consuming, and expensive, huh? Why, those poor, poor scientists. We should give them a medal and millions of dollars in grants for trying!Of course, Massey et al. have a different interpretation of Koch’s postulates that is difficult, time consuming and expensive to meet, so they would claim that it doesn’t meet THEIR interpretation of Koch’s postulates.
Nah, if you have bacteria in your cell culture it'll be destroyed very, very quickly and extremely obvious to a technician. I'm telling you from direct experience that bacterial contamination in cell culture won't be missed. In the case of Veros being an adherent cell line, you'll see the bacteria floating around in the media and the cell monolayer getting all ragged and lifting off the surface. The exception is a Mycoplasma contamination which often contaminants cell lines. Though any good scientist will routinely screen for Mycoplasma.But antibiotics themselves are not 100% effective, and never kill 100% of bacteria. Sure, they may indeed kill off most bacteria, seeming to keep the culture "sterile," or slow the replication of bacteria so that instead of taking over the culture in a matter of hours, it would take a matter of months. But neither condition is "sterile," although the latter might appear so to humans.
But, as noted above, they don't create a "pure" culture medium. More likely, the illusion of one. And if they didn't bother to eliminate the known microflora from the human sample, like bacteria and other known viruses, then the sample was obviously contaminated from the get go. Again, a violation of the second postulate.
Of course, even if the culture was "pure" and the mouse experiment somehow satisfied the second postulate, it in no way satisfied the first. The first postulate was violated over and over again in the "real" world for what they were calling "Covid" cases. They claimed that it could produce no symptoms, or generic common cold symptoms, or the so called "long covid," or pneumonia, or (in the most outlandish cases) motorcycle crashes, or was retroactively responsible for things like heart disease and kidney problems that had existed for decades.
Remember the first postulate?
The outlandish claim of "asymptomatic Covid cases" obviously violates the second part. The fact that people with common cold symptoms would sometimes be diagnosed as having "Covid" and sometimes not also obviously violates the first part.
Kirsch's claim was that the paper satisfied ALL FOUR.
Here is the paper-
The pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 in hACE2 transgenic mice - Nature
Infection with SARS-CoV-2 causes interstitial pneumonia and viral replication in the lungs of transgenic mice that express a human version of ACE2, confirming the pathogenicity of the virus in this model.www.nature.com
Obviously, a small mouse experiment can't confirm that the alleged "Novel Corona Virus" was present in ALL the people diagnosed with the disease (which is basically a common cold). Nor, that it is found in large amount in all who have the common cold, and found in no amounts in those who are healthy (aka, asymptomatic).
Moreover, while they do claim "reisolation" of the virus from the infected mice, there is no mention of using that "isolate" to further infect more mice with SARS-Cov-2. Obviously, this doesn't satisfy the forth postulate.
In can only potentially be used to satisfy the second and third, and of course, if the "isolate" wasn't free of bacteria and other microflora (as the use of antibiotics suggests), then it doesn't do anything to support those two, either. Kirsh's claim in this is way off base.
Edit- Offhand rant coming up.
Kirsch also leaves us with this gem-
Oh, it's difficult, time consuming, and expensive, huh? Why, those poor, poor scientists. We should give them a medal and millions of dollars in grants for trying!
Hey Steve, you know what else is difficult and expensive? Losing your business to unscientific lockdowns, and then being so deep in despair you commit suicide.
Kerala restaurant owner dies by suicide after slamming government for Covid restrictions
KOTTAYAM: In yet another case of Covid- induced financial crisis taking a life, a restaurant owner in Kurichy died by suicide after posting a suicide note on hiwww.newindianexpress.com
Or having your small (or mid sized) business be closed down and reduced to nothing as Amazon makes record sales-
Souplantation’s buffet-style restaurants closing for good because of the coronavirus
Souplantation's owner says there was no way the restaurants’ longtime self-serve model could survive in the era of COVID-19www.latimes.com
Or being laid off with 50 Million others to "slow the spread." Or, being faced with the decision to take a dangerous and poorly tested drug to keep your job or do some travelling.
Several Trillions of dollars changed hands because of this Pandemic Side Show, Steve. So no, the cheap, shoody research techniques don't fly this time. EVERY single government that issued any sort of "Covid Restrictions" should have absolutely isolated and purified the virus SEVERAL times, before a single business was closed, or a single mask was asked to be put on. Every one, state, local, national and federal. There's simply no way that isolating and purifying SARS-Cov-2 is more expensive than the cumulative and life damage that lockdowns and other restrictions did to people, families, and businesses. Every single stop should have been pulled out. And no one should have accepted anything less.
There is a thread with Andrew Kaufman's problems with viral isolation here- ANDREW KAUFMAN ON FALLACY AND FRAUD OF VIROLOGYNah, if you have bacteria in your cell culture it'll be destroyed very, very quickly and extremely obvious to a technician. I'm telling you from direct experience that bacterial contamination in cell culture won't be missed. In the case of Veros being an adherent cell line, you'll see the bacteria floating around in the media and the cell monolayer getting all ragged and lifting off the surface. The exception is a Mycoplasma contamination which often contaminants cell lines. Though any good scientist will routinely screen for Mycoplasma.
Also I should say that antibiotics are generally only used when introducing a donor sample. Since it's coming from the real world, there will be all kinds of microorganisms growing in it. Once you've established a cell or viral line aseptically, antibiotics are no longer needed, since you'd be doing all the work inside a biosafety cabinet.
I won't comment on the rest of your post, my gripe was with your bad arguments for Koch's 2nd postulate. My point was that misunderstanding cell culture techniques and using that as fuel against COVID will discredit your argument against people who know about viral culture. I'm also anti-covid policies, never got vaccinated, don't recommend my friend or family do so - but it's important to use the right arguments. I'm trying to help you out by not letting you bark up the wrong tree R.E.: the cell culture stuff
It's really funny.Viruses exist. This is not the sort of thing anyone lies about, and only idiots and misinformation agents would believe the "no viruses" claim.
Yeah I'll probably have a chance to go through the links in this thread tonightThere is a thread with Andrew Kaufman's problems with viral isolation here- ANDREW KAUFMAN ON FALLACY AND FRAUD OF VIROLOGY
Would you go over his argument (at your leisure, of course), and point out the problems? The video in the thread is 25 minutes, I also linked to a text version of him going over the materials and methods section of an "isolation" study. I've been waiting to hear a serious critique of that video.
COVID as diagnosed by symptoms is a common cold, and that's a fact-COVID is contagious, that's a fact.
COVID infected people often test positive, that's a fact.
Watch for Symptoms
People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. Anyone can have mild to severe symptoms. People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:
- Fever or chills
- Cough
- Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
- Fatigue
- Muscle or body aches
- Headache
- New loss of taste or smell
- Sore throat
- Congestion or runny nose
- Nausea or vomiting
- Diarrhea
100% of those symptoms overlap with the common cold and flu, and that's a fact. Additionally, each individual symptom overlaps with dozens or hundreds of diseases. It's right there in black and white.When to Seek Emergency Medical Attention
Look for emergency warning signs* for COVID-19:
- Trouble breathing
- Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
- New confusion
- Inability to wake or stay awake
- Pale, gray, or blue-colored skin, lips, or nail beds, depending on skin tone
You'd just use uninfected cells and process them the same as infected then look for differential cytopathic effect between the two treatments
D.G. Rancourt has an excellent paper on that, if you are interested-The easiest way to see the gov't caused "COVID" is that no one was sick and dying until two weeks after they declared national emergency and shut down the country.
2020-06-02 ::: All-cause mortality during COVID-19 - No plague and a likely signature of mass homicide by government response
D.G. Rancourt has an excellent paper on that, if you are interested-
Even in the title, he's not pulling any punches-
But, the government couldn't have done it without their lackeys in the media, and a bunch of compliant multinational corporations. Ron DeSantis shaming the media for their wildly inaccurate predictions in May of 2020 was, and still is, absolutely glorious.
Gov. Ron DeSantis Shames Media, Outbreak Models' Doomsday Predictions: Off by Nearly 500k in Florida
As Florida prepares to ease a month-long shutdown, Gov. Ron DeSantis delivered a scathing rebuttal of apocalyptic predictions for his state that were breathlessly hyped by the news media and proven wrong during the coronavirus crisis. | Politicswww.breitbart.com
View: https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1256214452363460610?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1256214452363460610%7Ctwgr%5E5b90d3dd8fbcb70623e4e2c0e0b4ab8d85b8bf6b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fpolitics%2F2020%2F05%2F01%2Fgov-ron-desantis-shames-media-outbreak-models-doomsday-predictions-off-by-nearly-500k-in-florida%2F
I'd be interested in reading something you may have published or can outline with the insect viruses you work with.IMO it doesn't really matter if you believe that virus are actually as they're described by mainstream virology or if you believe that they're some kind of cellular product that gets blebbed out under stress. The important thing is that they do replicate and are transmissible. I wouldn't say there's zero proof that viruses cause disease. I work with insect viruses and it's pretty easy to see that they cause mortality and disseminate through the organism through replication. I think a lot of us on the forum have a conspiracy theory bent, which can be good because it allows us a healthy skepticism of mainstream ideas, but it's easy to get swept up in stuff.
But yeah in biology the harder question is always the why rather than the what.
Completely agree with Rancourt. I was watching the numbers from the beginning and saw there was something very very strange about it. I posted on my FB the stats around May or June 2020 that there were no deaths until after lockdown. Barely anyone commented. They didn't want to believe their own gov't/hospitals caused their grandparents and loved ones to die.
Good link, super cringy debate, Wolfgang needs to learn to keep his composure along with that lady, it's like they are punishing school children.There is a thread with Andrew Kaufman's problems with viral isolation here- ANDREW KAUFMAN ON FALLACY AND FRAUD OF VIROLOGY
Would you go over his argument (at your leisure, of course), and point out the problems? The video in the thread is 25 minutes, I also linked to a text version of him going over the materials and methods section of an "isolation" study. I've been waiting to hear a serious critique of that video.
I was referring to the very obvious spike of death 2-3 weeks after lockdown. I know many people think it was a hoax that the hospitals were filled with patients on ventilators in NYC but I disagree, I do think people were showing up with severe respiratory distress and then they'd put them on the vent and then they would die. I just don't think it was a new virus or anything like that. It was mass hysteria.All cause mortality in USA, 2021... suspicious once again!
I post this thread because ever since considering all cause mortality a simple, effective and straight forward nail in the coffin for the COVID narrative I've referred to it to help people understand the last two years through a different lens. Many of you may remember Genevieve Briands...raypeatforum.com
I think it's a great tree to bark up. Have you seen Stefan Lanka control experiments?Nah, if you have bacteria in your cell culture it'll be destroyed very, very quickly and extremely obvious to a technician. I'm telling you from direct experience that bacterial contamination in cell culture won't be missed. In the case of Veros being an adherent cell line, you'll see the bacteria floating around in the media and the cell monolayer getting all ragged and lifting off the surface. The exception is a Mycoplasma contamination which often contaminants cell lines. Though any good scientist will routinely screen for Mycoplasma.
Also I should say that antibiotics are generally only used when introducing a donor sample. Since it's coming from the real world, there will be all kinds of microorganisms growing in it. Once you've established a cell or viral line aseptically, antibiotics are no longer needed, since you'd be doing all the work inside a biosafety cabinet.
I won't comment on the rest of your post, my gripe was with your bad arguments for Koch's 2nd postulate. My point was that misunderstanding cell culture techniques and using that as fuel against COVID will discredit your argument against people who know about viral culture. I'm also anti-covid policies, never got vaccinated, don't recommend my friend or family do so - but it's important to use the right arguments. I'm trying to help you out by not letting you bark up the wrong tree R.E.: the cell culture stuff
Here's a list of the politically incorrect things you either omitted or lied wholesale about:COVID as diagnosed by symptoms is a common cold, and that's a fact-