Is Functional Patterns useful or a massive cult?

[ironfist]

This program gets posted here all the time whenever someone has a question about a thing, someone might just post a random FP link. Ok, this is fair.

But I was curious about it, so I decided to check reddit.

Let's see what some threads have to say:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/FunctionalPatterns/comments/tnp5cd/functional_patterns_functional_training_system/

Might be useful but a cult


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/FunctionalPatterns/comments/eambvx/review_functional_patterns_10_week_course/

didn't work for this guy


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/FunctionalPatterns/comments/v7pome/the_pros_and_cons_of_functional_patterns/

When you want to get results you need a trainer, and certainly a cult


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/sportsmedicine/comments/b1nb0u/question_about_validity_of_functional_patterns/

the positive post sounds like a sales ad


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/8k133u/opinions_on_functional_patterns/

The founder is a cultist

r/FunctionalPatterns - Functional Patterns? Anyone have experience with 1-1 training?
Critique from a physical therapist

I think this comment is noteworthy:

I was all in on fp. I left because I woke up and realized the system is flawed from the beginning I dont believe standijg neutral is even neutral.. some of the corrective stuff is hard to follow chambers but u can do a lot of basics like kettlebell and movement work at home. I went back to lifting weights trust me you won't hurt yourself. Other people have been banned for having a view not aligning with fp or i know a few people who have woke up and realized that once fp isn't the be all end all. There is some good but lots of bad in it. Trust me you don't need to spend the rest of your life worrying about how your body is. The system creates anxiety even tho it claims to help get rid of anxiety. Do whats best for your health. I lift weights and I practice some things I have learned from a practioner and the 10 week course power of posture and the training system

With this one:

I am having these exact feelings now, only a month into FP with one-on-one training. It feels almost cultish & I don’t like how everything else is “bad”. I’ve taken on the advice from my trainer & stopped any other resistance training. But my mental health is really feeling it & also feeling unfit & not as strong because it’s not exactly a workout. I’m trying to stick it out long enough to see results but as you said, am I only pain free because I’m not doing anything? My pain was never constant, it is triggered by certain movements. I want to go back to my weight training but they make me feel kinda bad about it, but I should just do what I enjoy, right? But then there is this fear that if I do, I’m wasting my money with FP by counteracting it. Ahhh when to make the call about whether it is good for me or not

Bolding done by me, not the OP:

I have just started 10 week program and this Naudi bloke ironically reminds me of Bikram Choudhury. Culty, greedy, and potentially full of hot air. The fact he has to drag everyone else down and keep it a secret points to him being full of ***t. Bikram was similar in relation to other exercise styles and other yoga lineages. If you were really the best why wouldn’t you have it all open for interrogation and wider consumption. Also calling himself Naudstradumus on Instagram? Narcissistic tosser. Anyway gonna give it a go and may report back here to eat my hat if it’s good

r/FunctionalPatterns - Review of the Functional Patterns Article in Men's Journal

4 votes and 14 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

From the article it cites: Bolding done by me not the OP.

Review of the Functional Patterns Article in Men's Journal

Dan Van Zandt reviews the science (or lack thereof) behind the claims about stretching made by Functional Patterns in a recent Men's Journal article.

www.flexibilityresearch.com

According to the Functional Patterns website, the company teaches a method of fitness training that was first conceptualised in 2009 by the company's founder, Naudi Aguilar. I have had several run-ins with Mr Aguilar on social media in which I questioned his dubious claims about stretching. My requests for data to support his statements ended with him deleting my comments and blocking my account.

Comments from the thread:

Thanks for the lengthy and thorough response. Gonna take some time to digest your points and see if I have further questions. Not going for a rebuttal as I was really just looking for your thoughts not a debate.

My question back which I asked one of the others a few weeks ago, is that- is anything I say here more likely to get you to try doing FP/the concepts that go with it?

I honestly don't have issue with the exercise portion of FP. I get it and I understand where a lot of the thinking comes from (PNF and RNT exercises, isometric holds, etc.). I have done the 10 week course, have/used the FTS and have worked with a couple practitioners int he past (which I found interesting and insightful). I find the movements fun and useful in some contexts but I didn't find them to be a full replacement for some of the more "traditional" (once again for lack of a better word) movements and exercises that make up my normal regimen.

The big turnoffs for me have more to do with the culture of FP and the peripherals.

-I find the online culture to be highly toxic (yeah i get the irony of a self professed troll decrying toxic online culture- we can dig into that if you want) especially the echo chamber aspects and a lot of naudi's personal rhetoric (which gets embraced, repeated and amplified by particular high level followers).

-The embrace of some truly wacky pseudoscience. ex. a lot of FP practitioners have started following and amplifying that Carrie Bennett lady after Naudi's appearance on her podcast. Further examples would be grounding, blue light blocking, sunning, and some of the dietary protocols (i dont necessarily disagree with these things on a top level but alot of the "science" behind them is garbage).

-The current shift of focus in a lot of (newer?) pracitioners towards aesthetics that focus on a very lean appearance and a highly tapered torso. This is just a personal thing- I don't like the look in bodybuilding either. I also see it as an unhealthy focus that can lead to some seriously disordered thinking and behaviors (orthorexia etc.).

-The all or nothing approach (naudi was just on about this yesterday) and the overwhelming need to ***t on anything that isn't FP.

-The level of general kinesiophobia FP creates in its practitioners/doers. Reading through posts in the FB group and instagram posts/comments shows that people are genuinely afraid to do just about anything and worried that they won't be able to return to the sports/activities they enjoy (and this gets reinforced by practitioners responses. ex. AJ telling people not to dance).

-Some pretty dubious anatomical concepts and gross speculation on what you are doing. ex. FP exercises remodeling bone, making changes to the periosteum, changing redox potential, etc.

-The whole negative injury rate thing.... Having gotten hurt doing FP with a prac I know this is BS. Promote a low injury rate but at least acknowledge that people do get hurt and be responsive to their concerns.

so what could y'all do to make me interested in doing more FP? Chill out, be more accepting, and be more transparent, and hurry up with the data driven science that shows that you are getting results for the reasons you think you are.

Then:

I'd add the arrogance of the "nobody does what we do but we won't measure it and will make up excuses" ***t. I made a thread with a pretty basic way to evidence strength gains etc which isn't perfect but is easy enough to do and viable but FP will only do things on its own terms and conaisera everything else bull**** without actually offering viable alternatives. The whole "I have a problem with the way traditional research is done" and then saying fuckint before and after pics and a treadmill video is better. Also the double standards and authorative claims about everything else despite lacking experience and understanding of other systems but moaning if anyone makes complaints about FP from the outside. Doble standards really piss me off

What's interesting is that much of the "discussion" about functional patterns on reddit has exactly the same energy. It's as if someone there has multiple accounts and is defending the system like a narcissist by insulting those that disagree. It's long and wordy and boring to read. There are some examples in those threads.

 

[liber1]

It’s both. But most things are to some degree. Take what you find useful from everything you can.

 

[SamYo123]

or you could just check the #functionalpatterns instagram tags and check what results people are getting around the world?

 

[-Luke-]

This program gets posted here all the time whenever someone has a question about a thing, someone might just post a random FP link. Ok, this is fair.

I don't have an opinion on functional patterns, but "someone" is always one and the same person.

 

[golder]

If you’re looking for an impartial opinion on this, don’t ask SamYo321. He’s been evangelising them like a cult member on here for years - see recent forum reference ‘diet is overrated, it’s all about functional movement’ (or words to that effect).

 

[xeliex]

reddit is a cult

 

[Deleted member 14744]

So I bought and used the 20 week course and found it useful but way overpriced. Here's the skinny if you want to save a few bucks- myofascia release and correcting posture are as important as stretching and other exercise. If you're experiencing pain, return to the basics and focus on getting them right, like doing planks. The rest was just instructions on some compound exercises which are fine, but require equipment I can't afford, and it's just as effective to use kettlebells and other weights.
Ideally FP is a focus on proper form which can resolve pain, esp if you do squats and deadlifts. But in reality, FP rails against these exercises and I think that is unfounded and unnecessary.
I would not spend money on it again.

 

[liber1]

So I bought and used the 20 week course and found it useful but way overpriced. Here's the skinny if you want to save a few bucks- myofascia release and correcting posture are as important as stretching and other exercise. If you're experiencing pain, return to the basics and focus on getting them right, like doing planks. The rest was just instructions on some compound exercises which are fine, but require equipment I can't afford, and it's just as effective to use kettlebells and other weights.
Ideally FP is a focus on proper form which can resolve pain, esp if you do squats and deadlifts. But in reality, FP rails against these exercises and I think that is unfounded and unnecessary.
I would not spend money on it again.

Agree with you. I went down the FP rabbit hole 100% for about a year studying the Instagram videos they posted and I bought their book Power of Posture.

The big thing with that group of founders is that they bash other training, which does create a lot of social media talk. Maybe that was the goal in the beginning anyway, can’t be sure.

But the basics from FP are all you need to solve a LOT of problems with chronic pain. Simple myofascial releases and some contralateral cable exercises have helped me solve a ton of problems with clients and myself.

 

[Lonewolfx]

They caught my attention because I have scoliosis and I've never seen so many before/after photos that actually got significant results (without surgery) in reversing it.

However it's so expensive that I still haven't bought the course even though I came across them months ago (thanks to this forum).

Anyone wanna share how they go about correcting scoliosis and save me a few hundred bucks?

I look awful with my shirt off because of my twisted spine. I'm sick of it.

 

[SamYo123]

They caught my attention because I have scoliosis and I've never seen so many before/after photos that actually got significant results (without surgery) in reversing it.

However it's so expensive that I still haven't bought the course even though I came across them months ago (thanks to this forum).

Anyone wanna share how they go about correcting scoliosis and save me a few hundred bucks?

I look awful with my shirt off because of my twisted spine. I'm sick of it.

A life of scoliosis to me, seems more expensive then there regular 50% offers off the 10 week course, but thats just me

 

[Jonk]

They caught my attention because I have scoliosis and I've never seen so many before/after photos that actually got significant results (without surgery) in reversing it.

However it's so expensive that I still haven't bought the course even though I came across them months ago (thanks to this forum).

Anyone wanna share how they go about correcting scoliosis and save me a few hundred bucks?

I look awful with my shirt off because of my twisted spine. I'm sick of it.

In this clip
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siLj4RhfDcA&t=8s&ab_channel=RayPeatClips
Ray speaks about thyroid deficiency and estrogen excess as potential causes for nerve impingement. I don't believe I have scoliosis but I have one shoulder far higher that the other and can feel that I am carrying myself asymmetrically. Biomechanics training have helped but what seem to have a much larger impact in pain sensation and muscle relaxation is diet. Maybe check if PTH is high, getting enough calcium, magnesium, vitamin D and eliminating any irritating foods would be a start. Maybe a pertinent question would be why your body is carrying itself in a suboptimal way? Was it because you didn't know how to walk or stand properly? Or is the body trying to work around a problem of e.g. intestinal inflammation, hypercalcemia, etc. Not saying I now the answer but I think relaxation of tissue and nervous system might be an overlooked aspect. I think there is also a risk involved with biomechanics training, in that you think you know better than your body how it's supposed to move, ingraining new bad movement patterns.

 

[ironfist]

A life of scoliosis to me, seems more expensive then there regular 50% offers off the 10 week course, but thats just me

100% guarantee this guy works for functional patterns.

Now if it were proven, and I don't mean people posting on social media, then you might be right. A course of amoxicillin is less expensive than a bacterial infection that doesn't go away on its own. 100% yes.

But you're misapplying this concept, and you know it. It's almost belittling to the members here to talk to them that way.

I know a guy who talks just like that, this guy did Sandler Selling for years and doesn't seem to be able to separate it from his personality. This is exactly what it sounds like. Let me guess, would you have leaned in when you said that until the very end where you lean away and expect the person to merge in your frame? "WeLl YeAh You MAKe A GoOd PoInT I GueSs I WiLl BuY It HeEhEe."

 

[Lonewolfx]

100% guarantee this guy works for functional patterns.

Yeah this guy is a shill.

Obviously I would pay for it if I knew it would work. But I'm not in a place financially to take a risk on this.

So I'm just wondering what there approach is for scoliosis to make a more informed decision since they're so hush hush on everything.

 

[teds]

Have you tried the Schroth method?

They caught my attention because I have scoliosis and I've never seen so many before/after photos that actually got significant results (without surgery) in reversing it.

However it's so expensive that I still haven't bought the course even though I came across them months ago (thanks to this forum).

Anyone wanna share how they go about correcting scoliosis and save me a few hundred bucks?

I look awful with my shirt off because of my twisted spine. I'm sick of it.

 

[teds]

They caught my attention because I have scoliosis and I've never seen so many before/after photos that actually got significant results (without surgery) in reversing it.

However it's so expensive that I still haven't bought the course even though I came across them months ago (thanks to this forum).

Anyone wanna share how they go about correcting scoliosis and save me a few hundred bucks?

I look awful with my shirt off because of my twisted spine. I'm sick of it.

Effects of the Schroth exercise on idiopathic scoliosis: a meta-analysis - PubMed

The overall effect size of the Schroth exercise is high (g=0.724). In addition, Schroth exercise may be more beneficial for scoliosis patients who have a 10 to 30° Cobb's angle than for those with a greater than 30° Cobb's angle. Patients should practice the exercise for at least one month to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Once you learn it you just do it yourself. So, probably an investment to learn it but then you’ve got it for life etc.

 

[Lonewolfx]

Have you tried the Schroth method?

No but I'll Google it. Thank you!

 

[ironfist]

Yeah this guy is a shill.

Obviously I would pay for it if I knew it would work. But I'm not in a place financially to take a risk on this.

So I'm just wondering what there approach is for scoliosis to make a more informed decision since they're so hush hush on everything.

Another place for Scoliosis rehab is:

Clinical Somatic Education - Somatic Movement Center

Clinical Somatic Education provides lasting pain relief. Learn how to stop doing damage to your body with Thomas Hanna's Clinical Somatic Education.

somaticmovementcenter.com

Specifically they have this blog post The Cause of Idiopathic Scoliosis: Involuntary Muscle Contraction
And this video explaining this: How Muscles Contract in Scoliosis C Curve - Somatic Movement Center

I do not know how precise the information is but her video is very good.

Besides that, there is a guy on youtube named Ed Paget. I'm unaware if his stuff works.
Here is a video for if you scoliosis to the right
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TWtrCmzaOw&t=0s

And if you have scoliosis to the left
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9qUhlQdOzg&t=0s


Possibly I have the left and right confused. Simply watch the video and see which one fits your curve.

 

[hamed1998]

So far i got and used the 10 week course and a few sessions with 2 different practitioners

Overall its been a huge upgrade to my physical health as I am into wrestling and wasn't able to do it before, they also got me into ray peat which helped my bioenergetics a lot, was spamming grains and spinach thinking it was what was needed to become healthy

Basically the way it works is you correct movement/posture and address the way you move and interact with the environment rather than addressing specific pains (think of when people try to massage/stretch their lower back because it hurts, etc)

Ive already posted this here but here are the results I got from following the 4th week of the 10 week course, which in my opinion is where the real beef happens (first 3 weeks is release work which I didnt get much benefit from) This before and after was 3 months apart

I got the 10wk course on sale at $300, in my opinion cheaper given at this point in my life I spent over $1000 on physiotherapy, massage, and other courses that promised the same results but I got no benefit from any of them.

Overall if Im asked what has helped me the most in my life interms of health, I usually say its biomechanics and bioenergetics (FP and ray peat) as opposed to stuff like grounding, sunning, protecting myself against EMFs, like yeah I believe they help I just dont feel the benefit as much as those two

 

[SamYo123]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjVi2zSvXOR/

 

[BearWithMe]

So I bought and used the 20 week course and found it useful but way overpriced. Here's the skinny if you want to save a few bucks- myofascia release and correcting posture are as important as stretching and other exercise. If you're experiencing pain, return to the basics and focus on getting them right, like doing planks. The rest was just instructions on some compound exercises which are fine, but require equipment I can't afford, and it's just as effective to use kettlebells and other weights.
Ideally FP is a focus on proper form which can resolve pain, esp if you do squats and deadlifts. But in reality, FP rails against these exercises and I think that is unfounded and unnecessary.
I would not spend money on it again.

Thank you!