ORN 2020-05-18: Dr. Peat On "Epidemic Of Words", Testing, Amount Of Thyroid, "Brittlizing Hormone"

Discussion in 'Audio Interview Transcripts' started by Lejeboca, May 27, 2020.

  1. Lejeboca

    Lejeboca Member

    Jun 19, 2017
    Patrick Timpone (PT): oneradionetwork.com and part 2 of our show May 18 20
    2002. [future guest announcement]
    [2:14] ... our next guest he's here in the second Monday 10:30 central Ray Peat (RP) very well-respected around the world PhD University of Oregon specialization in physiology he started working on hormones back in 68 well his just dissertation in 72. He outlined that the ideas on progesterone and hormones closely related. His main thesis is that energy and structure are interdependent at every level, we love that. His website is raypeat.com. and will tell you how to get his newsletter, and he's here and we love talking to him because he's been around a while and so it's always fun to have somebody who done lot of research. Dr. Peat, good morning.

    RP: good morning

    PT: how are things up there were you're sir?

    RP: oh, it's been raining for several days but pretty warm spring, so everything is growing.

    PT: Dr. Peat, Do you think it's possible if we have cold weather flowing through, rain or chill or stress, that we can create a situation where we think we have caught the flu or created a cold from a virus but it was really an internal combustion from things like, you know, weather changes and stress.

    RP: Oh, for sure change in atmospheric pressure causes all sorts of symptoms. Usually it's increasing pressure that brings on the the worst symptoms, the rising oxygen tension actually is harmful when pressure is increasing with cold air called dry air very heavy and so it increases the atmospheric pressure. The cold weather also when you stay inside and and run a heater that raises and as the dryness increases the relative humidity decreases when you when you raise the temperature and so if you have a cold wave of dry air coming in and then you heat your house, you make super dry air with a high oxygen tension and that causes lung injury and so your lungs are really susceptible to any anything bacteria or fungus or virus. But simply in any stress can make those irritated. Lung surfaces produce symptoms. Normally your lungs are the main detoxifying organ for things like circulating serotonin. If your intestine is irritated because you ate some strange food, they secrete serotonin into the blood and that's carried to the lungs to be detoxified but if anything is happening in your lungs even inflammation just from the dry air extra oxygen pressure, then, if your lungs failed to detoxify it, then you get all of these serotonin symptoms, which can include increased coagulation in your blood. For example, it's known that lung disease, colds, influenza anything that messes up your lungs increases the risk of systemic coagulation and strokes even young people. And as some of the news stories in recent weeks have said there's this horrible new quality of coronavirus: young people are having strokes. And it's not at all new colds, a severe cold, increases the risk of a stroke.

    PT: so, do I hear you saying that we can produce symptoms: fevers, all kinds of things with the lungs, because of outside influences that are not necessarily a virus or bacteria that has come in from the outside and entered our being.

    RP: right just emotional stress

    PT: and then so the body is producing these symptoms why? to detox or to heal?

    RP: that's that's the basic mechanism that when the body experiences a threat
    it turns on the adrenal system. For example, the Hans Selye's the adaptive
    reaction system. and he explains that the high cortisol lets you have super
    adaptive properties for a while but then if it continues too long, then the
    high cortisol melts down your immune system your thymus shrinks in a matter of
    hours of high cortisol. And so even emotional stress that keeps your cortisol
    elevated for a while is melting away your immune system. A young person, with
    a big juicy thymus gland, if they have a severe accident and live for maybe 4
    or 5 hours, it's found that their thymus is gone.

    PT: interesting. so it's possible then that there could be many people thousands, millions whatever that are experiencing flu-like symptoms that they think they've caught a virus that just because of the fear that's instilled into them through the media have creating symptoms. It's possible without, without coming in contact with any virus?

    RP: Not that it's possible. it's known.

    PT: it's known and then if you---wow---and then if you would give a test to one of these persons either before or after and it showed positive. Does that mean anything?

    RP: Yeah but they're immune to that supposedly if you have antibodies to something that means you've adapted to it successfully. The same with blood tests for classes of antibodies. They find that you have antibodies to two potatoes or blueberries or or whatever in your blood. And they say never eat potatoes or blueberries because you have antibodies to them but actually it means you've adapted to them okay to eat them.

    PT: so these PCR antibody tests that they give to just regular people that they want to test everybody and this is the meme: let's test everybody. Are they have any value whatsoever?

    RP: Somewhat. it will tell you that something like eighty or ninety percent of the people that might have the actual virus sitting on some membrane, it isn't going to get sick. It shows you that the virus is harmless for the great majority of people.

    PT: so the people testing positive you're saying could possibly be they have a antiviral they have an antibody to but not necessarily the COVID virus because they don't even.

    RP: the PCR test is to find the actual virus which can be present in most people without causing either symptoms or antibodies but possibly the antibodies will develop. But the other tests are looking for antibodies and some of the tests that have been used have not been able to discriminate between in any old standard coronavirus and the new corona virus.

    PT: yes sir, Dr. Ray Peat. But so in in mid-February when this thing kind of blew up and all of a sudden they had this test let's test people wasn't enough test but we're gonna get more tests the weren't enough tests and people were testing positive how would it be possible logically or from the virology standpoint that you could have a test that quickly that would be accurate to testing some virus a new virus named corona that hasn't been around until now.

    RP: To know the meaning of the test you have to test the test and they didn't do that. It takes a long time to know what their testers gonna tell you anything and so the test results whether they're antibodies or PCR for the actual virus you have to first establish what it means. And they're just like a bunch of crazy chickens talking about numbers without having tested what the numbers mean.

    PT: and how long generally Dr. Peat would it take to have one of these test trials to make it really very accurate and what would be very accurate? seventy percent accuracy eighty percent?

    RP: well you have to test lots of healthy people and some some sick people too and then compare the differences, see if there's more antibody or more virus in the sick people than in the healthy people and and to develop the meaning of the test on the basis of actual results, conditions in the real world, but if you only test sick people and say a certain percentage have the virus or only test healthy people. If you concentrate on the population in general, like to study in Northern California. J Bhattacharya and his group were showing that the number of infected people was low and also the mortality per infection was very low, but still they didn't test a big enough population to be certain of how many really are are infected in that given area. But he said he was getting emails from colleagues saying things like Jay get with the program and program means conforming to the opinion of the authoritative opinion.

    PT. yes

    RP: don't don't investigate and and stir things up

    PT: and if you really wanted to do according to virology a test in general how long can you theorize or the record show how long the timeframe would it take before that test was that we have a good one here we have something real that's valuable?

    RP: I would guess at least six months but meanwhile the conditions are changing and so in principle it's very hard to do anything scientifically meaningful when you have a virus that changes radically in three or four or five months.

    PT: and this virus? so you saying there is a virus that is outside the body for some people and there's also many that are that are just creating symptoms from their own viral load or from their own microbiome? how would you say it?

    RP: Oh yeah, if you don't distinguish very precisely to know that it's a certain mutant coronavirus, everyone is exposed to many different kinds of coronaviruses and and so when you're under stress, you might your body might multiply and respond to some of the coronaviruses that are around you all the time or other viruses or bacteria or you might even have similar reactions without any any pathogen being identifiable.

    PT: and we would have been fair to say that people who are afraid and fear of catching something possibly dying. walking six feet apart with a mask and everything that they're under stress or they're

    RP: oh I'm sure that happens. There was was a sociologist who wrote the book about 40 years ago looking at the death rate according to the unemployment numbers and he saw that at that time 40 years ago the population was quite a bit smaller but he saw an increase of 35,000 deaths per year for each point of increased unemployment. So so a five point increase in unemployment would be very very big big bigger than influenza.

    PT: so what I hear you saying is there's a lot more stress other than just the fear of getting something out there. But we have the highest unemployment, unemployed people in this country ever in the history so that's a whole financial what am I going to do stress had it on to it.

    RP: yeah you hear all sorts of media people saying we have to follow the science but but they don't want to talk about the science. Two very common phrases you hear: "medical experts say". That means one thing they want you to conform to conventional medical opinion. And medical opinion is regulated by the State that the state boards of Medical Licensing. If you don't conform too many times you lose your license. And the other favorite saying is "scientists believe". But the thing about science is that it's about testing and dissent. And so if you say the dissenting researchers have been discredited because their opinion is not what medical experts say then you're denying science itself. Science has to be dissent driven.

    PT: there is quite a few docs on record YouTube videos you can find them that have gone on, Dr. Peat, and said: "well we're being told to check off corona as cause of death just because yes, anybody that we come across." Right"

    RP: Yes, you know in a typical months six or seven percent of all deaths are from respiratory disease like flu or pneumonia and in the last report they showed what looks like a doubling of respiratory disease associated with the diagnosis of coronavirus but, since respiratory diseases are around 6 or 7% of total mortality, that month should have shown a big increase not necessarily doubling the 6% but definitely on total mortality. But the CDC in their most recent report said total mortality in the U.S. is below average below average. Yeah I've been following the CDC's own reports and not only there's nothing happening but there's a slight dip in total mortality this year. and the only way you can account for that huge spikes in corona-diagnosed deaths is to see that it's made up for by a spike downward in deaths from cancer, heart disease, sepsis, and so on. So if you diagnose someone you would have put down for deaths by sepsis, heart disease, cancer, or other common things, if you cannot decide, you're not really sure what killed them so let's say coronavirus killed them, then you have a perfectly normal total mortality but an apparent spike caused by by a virus and with all of the recognized ambiguity and absence of meaning for the definition and the test. What you have is is an epidemic of words.

    PT: an epidemic of wards so you say that's what we're experiencing here?

    RP: I don't see any other way.

    PT: it's on record that doctors who say that someone has coronavirus I believe they may receive 9,000 from Medicare and then if you put them on a ventilator I think what is it 30,000.

    RP: no, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation the old payment for being admitted with lung infection was around 13,000 but if it's diagnosed as COVID that gets a 20% boost, so up to about 16,000 for diagnosing COVID lung disease. But the if you put them on a ventilator with ordinary lung disease that goes up to around 40,000 and 20% boost takes that up to 48,000. So they're making basically forty eight thousand dollars for putting someone on the ventilator until they die.

    PT: forty eight thousand dollars received from the hospitals when they put somebody on a ventilator.

    RP: receive from both Medicare and the extra bonus from the CARES Act, the "free money" Act.

    PT: Oh good. Doctor Ray Peat with us. Fascinating. What do you know about the dangers of these ventilators? we've read quite a report. Have you seen some credible information that you can share you know?

    RP: Luciano Gattinoni an Italian lung specialist working in Germany has been advocating a more physiological, less dogmatic approach to treating all kinds of pneumonia like, influenza like, lung infections. And he says in one hospital in Germany and he didn't want name either the hospitals but one good hospital was having a 60% mortality in their intensive care and a nearby hospital that was abandoning the standard protocol of intubation had a zero percent mortality following his a more reasonable and physiological non-invasive way of analyzing them well. And if you look at the average figures for mortality, some of the studies show an 88%, that at 60% wasn't an outstandingly bad hospital.

    PT: Dr. Ray Peat, Patrick Timpone, oneradionetwork.com. If you care to join the show: 888 663-6386, email Patrick at oneradionetwork.com It is May 18th. so before we start emails and have our first break, let's talk about vaccine. We're hearing that President Trump is touting that there could be some kind of vaccine by the Fall. You know, just 100 million some kind of devices have been ordered through the military and I think they want to do some kind of an oral. Do you think it's possible knowing everything that you have told us about this virus, is this alleged virus I guess is a good term that there could be some kind of a up outward substance called a vaccine that could protect people from something? that would be safe, I mean? I don't know how to phrase your question, Dr. Peat.

    RP: yeah there is no way to simply state the scientific issue because that there has been no actual science involved in a for along. The media are denying simple on the record published facts going back 30, 40 or more years attempting to make flu vaccines, and they claim, the current CDC claim full effectiveness of a flu, last year's flu vaccine was forty five percent effective. But if you look at their the results are talking about it's very weird ways of arguing that they don't simply look at at a vaccinated population and an unvaccinated population because there have been both about a dozen studies that that have considered the whole health of vaccinated population versus an unvaccinated population and those have found the people who were vaccinated that the next season developed several times as many lung infections from coronaviruses as the unvaccinated and that does cause sort of a panic in various authoritative sources and in fact-checkers and so on but but you can look up those studies that the people getting flu vaccines that the following year had... one study I saw was for point four times as many lung diseases caused by coronaviruses and a couple other viruses.

    PT: so you're making the argument that a potential for cone of vaccine soon-to-come could be unnecessary and just dangerous

    RP: dangerous, yeah.

    PT: and would it be dangerous because of the adjuncts maybe the mercury or aluminum and other things in there or the actual substance that they'd be squirting into people some kind of virus.

    RP: yeah and if you look at the whole population the availability of flu vaccines has gone from around at 10 million at doses per year, two years ago had a historic high of around 70 million vaccines. And then last year again a huge surge, I think, was a hundred and sixty nine million people vaccinated in the US and you would think if it was forty five percent effective then this year and last year you would have had a very healthy population. But no, the curve of influenza one disease pneumonia deaths has been very pretty pretty steady over the last 10, 15 years. If anything rising, somewhat following the number of vaccines so that the whole population absolutely doesn't show it, the forty five percent benefit of being vaccinated.

    PT: So the scientific proof to show that these flu vaccines are or unnecessary and ineffective but also in many cases are causing more problems the following year.

    RP: From different viruses, yeah.

    PT: From different viruses and where these viruses coming from?

    RP: oh yeah, in the body and environment they're just as millions of viruses around.

    PT: they're just everywhere.

    RP: yeah and you can look at the published papers in Nature and Science, and and the standard virus journals going back. It started with, they actually started with germ warfare research and no one wants to talk about that. For a while they were ever saying that the Chinese had a leak of germ warfare viruses but then that was knocked down. They don't want to talk about it at all, the Fort Detrick and several other labs in the U.S. were created solely for the purpose of germ warfare and in the 1940s many of the leading medical people were working in in germ and chemical warfare. The author of the world's most used medical textbook of physiology, Arthur C. Guyton, was a specialist in aerosolizing germs, bacteria, and viruses and some of those are known to have been tested on American populations. And one of the viruses he was aerosolizing was polio and he became paralyzed by careless lab work and so went to Mississippi and became a medical professor and made up out of his head this awful book that became the standard most used medical textbook in the world, because of his origin and authority coming from government association. and Nixon in 1969 in response to world pressure ordered the abolition of the germ warfare program and the destruction of all supplies. And what what happened was suddenly the viruses were being made more potent more virulent as weapons, suddenly they discovered that there might be someone violating the international rules and making these weapons, and so they kept producing them they were ordered to stop making weapons so they said now these weapon weaponizable viruses have to be made so we can make a vaccine against them. That started right in 1969 when when Nixon cancelled the war program and ever since then they have been designing more and more virulent viruses. And the coronavirus was pretty much their favorite. They did anthrax and Ebola and a lot of other potential weapons but always with the excuse that we're designing defensive vaccines against these potential weapons. But continuing exactly the gain-of-function type of research making chimera mixes of different types of effects of virus to escape known immune defenses. But in all of these 40 years of explicitly designing a horrible disease causing viruses so they could make vaccines, they have never succeeded in making a vaccine that worked against them.

    PT: Never succeeded in making a vaccine that worked against them.

    RP: Yes, so why would we expect to have one suddenly historically unique event by next Fall?

    PT: Next Fall? Why indeed? Why indeed? Dr. Ray Peat PhD. What do you think? Patrick Timpone, oneradionetwork.com. [commercial break]

    PT: Dr. Ray Peat PhD has been around for a long time doing this kind of research and so thanks for coming on in, Dr. Peat. He's got a lot of fans around the world who listen on the show. So before we move on to some questions, so let's talk about vaccines so, so did this whole germ theory of Pasteur, did it start the vaccine idea?

    RP: it's somewhat advanced the idea but I think the real motor for it was Paul Ehrlich and and his specific drugs that were designed as silver bullets. The concept of a silver-bullet chemical blended in with the idea of antibodies that were the body's silver bullets and that created right from Ehrlich's time that the drug companies naturally were pushing their silver-bullet chemicals but that ideologically blended in the idea that antibodies were silver bullets and so the study of the immune system focused all during the last century on the idea that antibodies were the secret to immunity. There were, I guess, about four Nobel prizes between 1960 and 2000 given for good work on the protein structure of antibodies but it was misleading because the immune system was being misunderstood because of the emphasis on that particular protein where really there are a thousand other more important things than antibodies, and the antibody specificity can go either way it can make a problem worse by intensifying inflammation as well as take down a potential toxin.

    PT: And who was Paul Ehrlich?

    RP: Paul Ehrlich, he shared a Nobel price. It was nineteen eight with Metchnikoff, who was an embryologist who emphasized the cell phagocyte part of the immune system rather than the chemical specific silver-bullet part and the embryology-based picture of the immune system was ridiculed by the chemical cartels all through the 20th century and two people started, mostly two people started, proposing radical alternative for interpreting the immune system that went back to Metchnikoff's recognition that cells and embryological development, the very structure of our being, were part of the immune system; our whole being is involved in immunity and resistant, all the way from energy, the oxidative energy of each cell, leading to changes in function at all levels. You can't say there's any one thing that is our immune system, so the idea of the immune system has been changing in a kind of underground way. Polly Matzinger works at the NIH now. And she has been changing some of the terms that are now in the mainstream as danger recognition. An English doctor Jamie Cunliffe calls it damage-recognition system rather than danger of Polly Matzinger is a little closer to the Ehrlich' antibody silver bullet by saying that we have a system to recognize danger, but I think that Cunliffe is closer to the Metchnikoff's interpretation that our whole being is involved and when we sense damage to our intrinsic nature that's what we're reacting to and and what they call the immune system he called it the disorder-repair system, something like that.

    PT: so so is the entire vaccine phenomena, I went back all the way to polio, and all that based on antibodies and it's still today even measles, mumps all these things based on the antibody idea which is just a very small part of the immune system?

    RP: yeah.

    PT: Dr. Ray Peat. Wow. What's a mother to do? Could you imagine mom so what but they're being told?

    RP: Yeah, the official story isn't even believed by the insiders? In December the chief scientist of the World Health Organization was on international television and telling the public that vaccines have been studied scientifically and they are perfectly safe and then just five days later someone leaked a video from the global summit meeting on vaccine safety. And in that meeting she was saying that the public is less and less trusting of what we say because of our obfuscation when they asked about the deaths caused by vaccines so one of the main concerns was that doctors were stopping their belief in vaccines and they weren't vaccinating their children at their own family. And she said that that's a real menace if our front line becomes skeptical.

    PT: so people like their big three and Robert Kennedy Jr. conjecture that there's never been a real authentic viable test proving that vaccines are safe and effective?

    RP: Absolutely true the that the Congress ordered NIH Health and Human Services to report back to Congress every two years at least on studies of safety because Congress had given absolute immunity to the drug companies to produce vaccines without being sued for the damages and since there was no financial motive to to make them do safety studies they ordered HHS to do the studies and report every two years and the big three Kennedy lawsuit. But when they wouldn't deliver under Freedom of Information they wouldn't deliver the documents finally when they were sued they said no such documents can be found. They simply ignored Congress for 30 years refusing to do studies because they knew that it was impossible to prove the safety that the tests all of the data showed that certain certain vaccines are less harmful than others but some of them are just terribly dangerous. They know that they see the figures and there's a government agency that under pressure will acknowledge maybe about 1 percent of the actual injured patients will get compensation from the government for the deaths and paralyses but the definition that makes it possible to get compensation is that the death or paralysis or whatever has to be recognized and diagnosed within a time limit, five days, 15 days so if you die on the 16th day I you can't be compensated and, despite all of that that, they have paid out four billion dollars to injured patients but it would be at maybe a hundred times greater if if they didn't have those time limits. And the government lists the injuries that they are bound to compensate for, and that list of injuries that they are compensating with fairly paltry amounts of money coincides with the package insert label, the list of side effects published by the pharmaceutical companies matches the conditions that the government is paying for so if the doctor answered for the vaccine if the patient knew that death and paralysis and brain damage and dementia, etc. were known recognized side effects, how many people would let their kids be vaccinated?

    PT: Fascinating so there was I wonder, wasn't it back to 1986? was it the immunity law during Reagan? he said.

    RP: That was when the immunity was given to the drug industry.

    PT: so I wonder why there was even that many billions given out kind of the table?

    RP: well it's some some little recognition of justice. But but meanwhile they're doing their best to not let people know that there is that system even. Doctors, most doctors, haven't heard of that system of compensations most doctors don't read the package inserts and so that they keep giving vaccines.

    PT: Doctor Ray Peat PhD. Patrick Timpone. It's oneradionetwork.com. You can check out his website raypeat.com, and we always have a link and it'll take you right to Dr. Peat and you can get his newsletter comes out every couple of months so. Well, it's been really interesting talking about this. Let's dig in if you will, sir, to a few of the emails in the time we have remaining we always have some time for it. This is from Thomas. He says I finally took the dive and managed to get my hands on some desiccated thyroid out of Thailand. I did feel better after a couple of months of slowly upping the dose. I'm just wondering what Mr. Peat thinks about the best way to dose throughout the day. I always take it first thing in the morning and then a second time around noon or a few hours later. It it taking it twice better than just doing it once a day or on an empty stomach? Any ideas are appreciated.

    RP: With desiccated thyroid it really doesn't make very much difference because it has no hormone action until it's been digested and so if you eat it with food it's going to slowly release the hormone, all during the passage of that food through your your small intestine and it's ideally twice a day, theoretically could be better, but in practice once a day it is fine with desiccated thyroid.

    PT: So is that still folks are gonna do some of the piggy thyroid that's still the best to get a desiccated thyroid where you have the t3 t4 and all that right in there?

    RP: I think so it has a lot of other things that are plausible, have benefits. For example the American brands when Armour companies sold their product name, the new companies started removing components such as calcitonin to sell separately and that was always part of the traditional thyroid and so the stuff from Thailand is more likely to be the full natural material coming out of the animal and so it could be more beneficial than a selected purified material but even the synthetics that imitate that balance of t4 and t3, those are almost always have completely therapeutic.

    PT: Is there a way to use either one the Thailand or the synthetic to work with your thyroid to get it happy again so you can get off of them or?

    RP: the traditional method developed over several decades of practical use was to start with about 30 milligrams for a month and watching for its effects and Broda Barnes found that the temperature when you wake up is a good way to to watch the daily progression of a given dose and then after maybe six or eight weeks if the symptoms weren't gone you would double the dose and over a period of five or six months usually you would settle in, for most people around 120 milligrams or two grains.

    PT: but once you on there or you there forever or?

    RP: no, in fact, I tested on myself after reading experiments on rats and I found that my requirement in winter months was about two grains a day but in the spring I became slightly hyperthyroid on that dose and and found that my summer dose was around half a grain.

    PT: half a grain is 30 milligrams, right? so you say symptoms, were you going by your temperature you could just feel is a general observation: you get a little just antsy with a little too much?

    RP: yeah, I went mostly by my my pulse rate but if I didn't drop the dose in the spring I would start getting out of breath just getting up to answer the telephone, which is a sign of hyperthyroidism.

    PT: A hyper? Yeah, there be a sign of hyper. Here as Thea she wants to know: How can I get the most benefit of using progesterone properly if using Progest-E daily rubbing on gums, is it still beneficial to skip maybe 7-14 days a month or month rather or is that only if ingesting it? Would be the same for a male? she is also asking,

    RP: the liver, the reason a woman cycles two weeks on two weeks off is partly that the liver is designed so that it maintains homeostasis, meaning that when something rises above average it increases its excretory enzymes, makes it leave the body in the bile and urine and so when you have this big surge after ovulation of progesterone, it's extremely effective the first week and then as liver increases its enzymes its effectiveness drops off gradually and if you get pregnant then the signals keep increasing so your progesterone production rises steadily until the last week of pregnancy and the liver never gets a head to lower this huge production of progesterone, always keeps your serum level ahead of your liver. But if you're not pregnant and keep taking without the interruption then your liver starts becoming so efficient that after 2 or 3 months you can hardly feel the effect of the same dose of progesterone. So just to keep for economy so that you're sensitive to moderate doses, it's good to lay off for a week or two every month.

    PT: here's an email from Dustin. he's in Nashville Tennessee this morning. He said it's beyond regular proper dosages of thyroid, progesterone, pregnenolone and obviously a good PUFA free diet what would Dr. Peat recommend as the best regimen for retaining the elasticity and the healing of scars especially for those past 50 and looking my best?

    RP: One of the factors that creates stiffness and specific loss of structural elasticity but combined with with stiffness so basically it's a brittlizing effect of stress, the system that drives that is mainly it involves estrogen and cortisol but the central factor is the angiotensin or renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system. Aldosterone is the opposing hormone to progesterone and the natural level of progesterone is one of the things that keeps your tissue firm of proper bulk and elastic, so simply the absence of progesterone or excess of estrogen will turn on this angiotensin-aldosterone system and tend to weaken tissue so that you are more susceptible to aneurysms of bulging arteries varicose veins, general weakening tissues become easier to break from a scuff, you can get more serious injury from light percussion and such. the strengthening part is partly opposing those keeping them down and the things that most strongly keep down your aldosterone system are vitamin D, zinc all of the growth protein anabolic things such as vitamin A, a balance of calcium and phosphate. Calcium works with vitamin D to hold down your your aldosterone which is a major brittlizing hormone.

    PT: Brittlizing hormone. So is there there any foods that keep the progesterone level nice and the aldosterone down dietary-wise?

    RP: eggs and zinc and milk. For example, stretch marks. I had the young cousin who was about six months pregnant and she showed me her belly and she had these like purple lightning streak patterns, half an inch wide and brilliant color with the zig-zag shiny pattern, and it was just the most vivid stretch marks that I had ever seen and I suggested eggs, milk and and oysters, which she ate for two or three days and, I think, it was just about three days later she came back and showed me her belly no marks at all. It was just amazing how they had, Her belly was meanwhile getting bigger, but the stretch marks had absolutely disappeared.

    PT: is isn't it true that oysters also been touted to help keep testosterone levels up? oysters?

    RP: That's part of keeping cortisol and aldosterone down.

    PT: I see oh it keeps cortisol down, so the T levels can stay good. Here is Matthew: My question for Dr. Peat, Can aspirin be taken together with losartan. I'm currently on 15 milligrams of losartan I wanted to know how much aspirin I can take?

    RP: There have been a lot of publications warning against the aspirin but I think the conclusion is, yeah, they're perfectly compatible.

    PT: and why why would we want aspirin? is it okay?

    RP: for example, for the coronavirus those happen to be both confirmed effective protections against the the symptoms of the corona injection?

    PT: good ol' aspirin. can you can you actually get just pure aspirin these days or they all have extra-curriculum activities in them?

    RP: No, the cheap kind is generally the best it's called aspirin USP and it doesn't matter whether it's sold by a a veterinary supply store. It's about 15 dollars per pound.

    PT: Can Dr. Peat elaborate on the mechanism of action of adaptogenic herbs or are they estrogenic? Is it safe to use, for example, ginseng or Korean ginseng?

    RP: A lot of studies found that there are steroids analogous to but not not exactly the same as a testosterone and pregnenolone, the stabilizing steroids that protect against cortisol. But I think it's safer to use pregnenolone, if you can find a safe and pure form.

    PT: Pregnenolone. more emails here, kind of lots of them let's see. Patrick Timpone along with Dr. Ray Peat. Mm-hmm, sorry my little mouse is not cooperating. Oh here you go. Okay. What does it mean---from Stefan---what does it mean when a woman bleeds during ovulation is it a progesterone issue?

    RP: To some extent. The surge of estrogen. Its effect is to break download the lining of the uterus and it is supposed by progesterone. So usually the people who have what they call it 'breakthrough bleeding' it can come any time, for example, after a woman gets pregnant if she was having those ovulation bleeds she's likely they have a monthly loss of blood even into the fifth month of pregnancy and that goes with all of the signs of progesterone deficiency a risk increased risk of preeclampsia or premature birth or all kinds of complications of pregnancy resulting from the bad balance of progesterone and estrogen.

    PT: one of your specialties. right? Julie wants to know what you think, doc, about intermittent fasting and a ketogenic diet for reversing type 2 diabetes?

    RP: I think that the so-called ketogenic diet is always stressful. The diabetes itself tends to turn on the stress ketogenic factors. The the body senses a lack of glucose in diabetes and that turns on stress metabolism and lactic acid tends to rise showing that glucose is actually being used although the body feels that it is deficient in glucose, so it starts turning muscles to glucose and that happens in the ketogenic diet the cortisol increases when glucose is low and the cortisol converts muscle to glucose at the same time that you're drawing fats out of storage or or eating fats, still the the fact that your diet is ketogenic that means that your cortisol is bound to be having too much influence and that is one of the things that shrinks your your thymus and other parts of your so-called immune system.

    PT: Can you ask Dr. Peat to talk more about pregnenolone? can it be used to reduce estrogen dominance in the body is there any change that change that pregnenolone would be converted to estrogen instead of progesterone and testosterone?

    RP: the quantity of hormone that is powerfully active in lab experiments and in experiments I did on myself. With the rats they gave I think was 10 grams of pregnenolone in the single dose, enough to stretch its stomach so it couldn't eat anything for hours. But they didn't see any hormonal effects in most of the rats but if if the rat was stressed and having a glucocorticoid at before the pregnenolone, they were normalized. So the only the change was beneficial stopping a stress reaction and I found that four thousand milligrams a day didn't have any harmful effect. Simply, was felt about the same as a hundred milligrams a day.

    PT: okay oh go ahead.

    RP: As in the rat, its effect when you have a slight excess of pregnenolone is to lower your cortisol to normal and an elevated cortisol is one of the things that increases estrogen and so when when you're blocking the stress reaction with an abundance of pregnenolone you're turning off the need for these other stress hormones and where the body will make, a human body will make, on the order of 30 to 50 milligrams a day of pregnenolone and progesterone and a five milligrams of testosterone and probably around fifty milligrams of DHEA, the daily dose produced in the body of estrogen is on the order of of a small fraction of a microgram. One one microgram per day is as an effective estrogenic dose, so the quantity of these precursor hormones, if they're adequate, they tend to turn off these microscopic downstream hormones so you will never have an increased conversion to estrogen or cortisol from an excess of pregnenolone or progesterone.

    PT: okay Dr. Ray Peat, Patrick Timpone [commercial break]

    [1:18:10] PT: oneradio network doctor Ray Peat, PhD, on our show and he's here the second hour, the third Monday of each month or 10:30 Central Time. So more things. this one here I wanted to see if I can this is Lindsey. I'm sorry that I lose Lindsey she had a thing about she's gonna have babies and she's got a baby here she is. She's gonna have babies in a two years or so wants to know how she can balance things out with her progesterone and and and regulate progesterone hormone for better health and prepare for a child in a couple of years, and she is also another one bleeding during ovulation.

    RP: The thyroid is most often the problem hormone in causing pregnancy problems so you want to check your temperature and pulse rate and maybe have a blood test to make sure that your your TSH level isn't elevated. The TSH itself is really a sign of some problems so the higher it is the less likely you are to have a successful pregnancy that. There have been several publications that are showing a direct link between increased TSH even within the so called normal range pregnancy problems. And part of keeping that normal is to have adequate protein every day not too much phosphate: meat and beans and nuts happen to be extremely high and in phosphate relative to calcium and the high phosphate turns on your your parathyroid hormone and the aldosterone so it's bad for all of your tissues and and there's increases cancer risk and so on. Calcium should be high relative to the phosphate and vitamin D and calcium work together, adequate vitamin A works with the thyroid hormone to have an anabolic effect on your proteiny tissues, the thymus gland and others, keeping your muscles well developed as part of keeping your your endocrine system in balance.

    PT: so w enough protein but the meat, beans and what else?

    RP: meat, beans, and fish.

    PT: Fish. High phosphate which is a little counter-intuitive there.

    RP: Yeah, the phosphate it just happens that those are very low in calcium content and the foods that are highest have the best ratio of calcium to phosphate are cheese milk and, for an extreme high calcium ratio, well cooked greens are the richest in calcium and magnesium relative to phosphate.

    PT: so when the phosphate gets too high with the beans, fish, and meats that's a problem, for almost everybody, right? if you have too much of those.

    RP: Yeah, Americans and in general. When when you look at the figures the higher the phosphate is when it gets be five, six or seven times as high as the calcium that leads to long-term problems like osteoporosis and inflammatory diseases.

    PT: when the TSH you had mentioned the normal levels, we can't go by those but so what would be a good TSH level after all these years of talking about thyroid that would say well everything's pretty good there with the thyroid? what level would that be?

    RP: when people have done large scale surveys and looked at the incidence of thyroid cancer over the years, and they have found that if your TSH is below 0.4 there's no fiber in cancer.

    PT: zero point four that's a low one, man, yeah that's really way down there. so would you, would you keep taking if you wanted to test just to be real geeky about it, Dr. Peat, would you keep testing if you're taking some kind of a piggy thyroid desiccated to get that down that low?

    RP: I think, it would be worthwhile. I go entirely by my pulse and temperature. But when I see people's results: If their TSH is as high as even one point zero, they always have some hormone-related problem and, for everyone I see with with a 2.0 even that they have fairly significant hormone problems by the time they are in their thirties.

    PT: My goodness. Stefan wants to know whether there be any benefits to introducing sourdough starter to the dough from making flour tortillas.

    RP: oh, yeah I don't know how a sourdough flour tortilla would turn out. Might be you lose collusion with the starter, so I think might be hard to make something resembling a tortilla. But but anyway flour tortillas are essentially unleavened wheat, and studies have shown, for example, in in Egypt they have seen dwarfism associated with people eating a lot of unleavened wheat bread.

    PT: I got something I got some of those nixtamalized, you know, the one you talked about from that company, the grits, right, the corn grits and is there any protein in corn?

    RP: not very much.

    PT: is a pretty good food, in general?

    RP: yeah as long as they get some protein and and other nutrients. You can't live on tortillas and beans healthfully but people who eat nixtamalized tortillas as regular part of their diet usually are very healthy if they have mixed other foods with it partly because of the high calcium content.

    PT: High calcium. so they are milk, cheese, greens. How about eggs?

    RP: Not very good. they're somewhat excessive for for phosphate but of course the protein and seafood you're getting the trace minerals, so it's good to have seafood once a week and eggs every day and the nixtamalized corn is another source of calcium in the diet.

    PT: yeah, so. This is Nessa and I'll try to see if I can get through this it's kind of long and let's see if I can edit it down a little bit if you can keep your emails as short as possible. she had TSH 9.7 put her on Armour 30 milligrams after seven weeks went down to 1.93; Her doc change it to levothyroxine, however you say that. five milligrams. She's been reading the Broda Barnes book and asked her doctor to change her back to Armour instead of the 30 to 60. She suggested I would be able to convert the t4 to t3 as needed and would you agree with this? I do have MS and it seems that Armour was helping me with morning muscle spasms that I was experiencing.

    RP: what was her TSH?

    PT: 1.93 after being on the Armour 30 milligrams for seven weeks.

    RP: I think it should still be lower but that's a tremendous improvement I would I would guess that the having chronic TSH as high as 9.0 would be a major factor in what was diagnosed as MS. And one of the things that you almost always see with with a good thyroid correction is the muscle cramps, the first few days while you're adjusting, you need to make sure your diet is very high in calcium and magnesium so a lot of milk while you were adapting to increasing thyroid dose will prevent muscle cramps but basically thyroid is one of the nerve muscle protecting hormones, absolutely essential.

    PT: Beth wants to know from Dr. Ray Peat: do you think the 5G or glyphosate have anything to do with this whole coronavirus thing?

    RP: Oh, each of them is known to be biologically harmful and our whole system as part of our resistance and immunity, and so if you do anything crazy like sit in an electromagnetic field of any measurable intensity, even running an electric sewing machine for twenty years they found a tremendous increase in dementia associated with just that moderate field but but the fields from these communication devices can be many times more.

    PT: Very challenging so anything with the motor really we get some magnetic fields don't? we anything with a motor?

    RP: yeah

    PT: Dr. Peat, do you know how much thyroid medication one can get out of one slaughtered pig?

    PT: oh, the gland is about as big as a human gland in proportion that maybe an ounce or so and the measuring in grains or grams the standard pill was based on the fresh gland because for the first 10 or 20 years they prescribed the uncooked a gland. They would give usually four grains or 250 milligrams roughly as a replacement dose and so when they started making dehydrated tablets they added, usually lactose, to extend the powdered gland, which they called 3x, as a pure powder and then they would dilute it increasing the weight by threefold so that when X was the potency of the finished pill which was equivalent in weight to the the natural wet thyroid tissue and and so if you think of of a 30 gram gland, each gram contains about 15 grains so you can get 120 doses of more or less replacement doses from from a single gland.

    PT: do you think when people ate more of a natural I guess on the farm and stuff that our chickens that we used to get some kind of the right in there didn't we with the chickens?

    RP: yeah yeah I used to find even at the Safeway supermarket a pound of chicken necks two or three of them they would have left the gland thyroid gland under the skin even though it was illegal they, starting in the 1940s, the government required that it be removed and sold to the drug companies on on the farm they would almost never bother removing the gland so it goes in the soup or fried chicken. A guy I knew who has worked on a farm said on on Fridays that was her fried chicken day and he always asked for the necks and would eat four or five necks for lunch and he said he'd always noticed that on Friday afternoons he was constantly overheated and sweating because he was eating like 15 grains of thyroid for lunch.

    PT: Interesting. you would think if you had a live thyroid that you could you'd feel that one you I mean if you just I mean you ate a whole one or something like that?

    RP: yeah and they aren't as toxic as the government warned. If that guy was on average if half of the next still had the gland in it each one might weigh one gram, that would be 30 grains for lunch. And a friend of mine had her thyroid powder in the plastic bag and her cat--- she had about 13 grains of thyroid in the bag--- and her cat has found it and toward the bag open and ate it all. And she said he was sitting there with a very fast heartbeat smiling.

    PT: hey guys, great show. Patrick, could you please ask Dr. Peat, what does he think of yogurt? yogurt?

    RP: if its standard, tangy somewhat sour yogurt that amount of lactic acid in a big cup full, it is enough to cause a the liver reaction. The liver turns it back to glucose but it's energetically expensive to turn lactic acids into glucose. And someone who is slightly hypothyroid can notice that the depressed and energy or even a headache brought on by as little as a cup of yogurt.

    PT: mm-hmm, do you know anything about albendazole? it's all for parasites there's somebody it's taken a dose who just wants to know if you think it's relatively safe?

    RP: if you're sure you have a dangerous parasite yes better than the parasite, but if you are not certain there's a parasite its toxicity is enough it isn't something to take diagnostically.

    PT: because he says he has bruxism: "got severely grounding of my teeth". is that one symptom of a parasite?

    RP: that goes with some sometimes. Yeah, anything irritating the intestine but often it's your green salad you ate at lunch as a more common cause of intestinal irritation during the night because that releases serotonin into the system and high serotonin is strongly associated with bruxism.

    PT: high serotonin.

    RP: so you might try something like cyproheptadine to see what effect that has, at bedtime.

    PT: what's cyproheptadine what is that?

    RP: it's an antihistamine anti-serotonin, old-fashioned anti-histamine with the anti serotonin function.

    PT: is a pharmaceutical med?

    RP: it's a prescription drug I think, but a lot of doctors are willing to prescribe.

    PT: it so raw veggies can cause high serotonin?

    RP: yeah, the cellulose in uncooked vegetables, especially, is indigestible and so that carries the food far down your intestine where bacteria can get at it, and the bacteria will live on cellulose-rich foods and produce toxins and the irritation of of the chemicals from the food and the bacteria and their toxins causes the intestines pour out a flood of histamine and serotonin and it's known that bruxism is very closely connected with high serotonin.

    PT: do you think one has the same challenge in challenges with like sunflower sprouts or radish sprouts?

    RP: if they're cooked or if if you grind up alfalfa sprouts while they are raw and there's a surge of cyanide released so you don't want to eat a mass of raw cyanide, or raw sprouts of alfalfa.

    PT: how about raw sunflower or radish sprouts

    RP: oh, I think those are safer except for the anti-thyroid effect.

    PT: so they kind of contaminant on the thyroid?

    RP: Yeah, the radish sprouts. in particular.

    PT: oh well, that's right radish.

    RP: yeah

    PT: Well Dr. Peat, we are out of time and if we didn't get your email we'll just put in our file here and we'll get you next time around so no telling where this whole Corona thing will be then what 30 days from now? lots of talk about a second wave do you have any theories on that?

    RP: same, same issue of the word epidemic. If they're putting that down sepsis, heart disease, and and cancer as coronavirus deaths, then you you have to look at the state of language at the moment.

    PT: yes sir, yes sir yeah proofs in the pudding; the gods in the details. Dr. Peat, we appreciate so much your your being here, thanks for your time, and we'll see you next time around.

    RP: okay okay thank you.

    PT: Dr. Ray Peat, Patrick Timpone and oneradionetwork.com. We have a little link there that you can click on at the show page and you can get the Dr. Ray Peat's newsletter I think it's so we will give you the email you just email then.
    [After-show announcements.] [Music]
  2. SQu

    SQu Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Thank you very much! this is a lot of work.