Low Temperatures, Despite Thyroid Supplementation (Cynomel / Cynoplus)?? What Gives??

[BigShoes]

@Jennifer yes that includes egg shell :) actually I'd rather purified powdered CaCO3 from limestone than from ground up eggshells because I'm lazy / don't have a grinder / paranoid about not sterilizing the shells properly. But for both, I was a bit worried about contamination with heavy metals. I managed to get the certificate of analysis from heiltropfen and it looks pretty good - but as we know, even 1 ppm of heavy metals could potentially cause problems over time with enough use.

I don't think I was intolerant to dairy as a child, but hard to know for sure. I only actually noticed a serious intolerance when I tried to do a "raw milk diet" for a while - caused severe constipation very quickly... I wouldn't have guessed that it was a true allergy - just inability to digest it for some reason. Now, if I drink more than about 2 cups of milk in a day, it pretty badly upsets my digestion (no stomach pain, just that the proteins are not digested at all).

Yes, only been using thyroid for 3 months. Never before.

I definitely am suspecting some sort of under (udder?) the radar infection - but not confident enough to take the dive into antibiotics. I have tried carrot salads for some time with no changes, although I have heard that mushrooms are better for reducing endotoxin etc... I haven't used them consistently enough to notice. Could try flower of sulphur...

 

[mostlylurking]

(2) Ray says c. 4g of PUFA is a great target, but even pure beef fat is c. 5% PUFA. So that allows for c. 80g fat in total as a reasonable guideline (720kcal + 450kcal protein = 1170kcal)

Hi, I wanted to add info about hydrogenated coconut oil.

I get mine from here: Coconut Oil (92 degree)

There's an audio show with Ray Peat talking about how to know the purity/contamination of it; something about the less detectable iodine the better, and I checked this one out several years ago but have not checked it since then.

Here's some discussion about hydrogenated coconut oil:


View: https://youtu.be/ew9n6hdGirs?t=6040

 

[ArtIt]

I do not take any thyroid supplements. With body temperature I have noticed the following. If i drink 500 ml of milk, as breakfast, or if I take 2 grams of calcium carbonate as part of the breakfast. My body temperature raises from 36.8 C (98.24 F ) to 37.1 C (98.78), or to 37.3 C (99.14). When I just eat eggs or meat for breakfast my body temperature does not raise. Evidently that calcium raises body temperature in the morning. I guess one can try also with 2-3 oz of cheese in the morning.

 

[NommyWommy]

I do not take any thyroid supplements. With body temperature I have noticed the following. If i drink 500 ml of milk, as breakfast, or if I take 2 grams of calcium carbonate as part of the breakfast. My body temperature raises from 36.8 C (98.24 F ) to 37.1 C (98.78), or to 37.3 C (99.14). When I just eat eggs or meat for breakfast my body temperature does not raise. Evidently that calcium raises body temperature in the morning. I guess one can try also with 2-3 oz of cheese in the morning.

Full fat milk?

 

[mostlylurking]

I seem to remember tolerating benfotiamine okay so I might try that again - I definitely only took a few of them though, so I can't think where the pot has gotten to..... I do have 100mg thiamin HCl caps though so could give them a try again instead.

It's important to learn the excipients that are included in the capsule. They can be pretty bad. I use pure bulk powder vitamin powders almost exclusively for that reason and also so I can have better flexibility on the doses.

Very interesting about Dr Lonsdale's work (honestly, I hadn't heard of him) - I will read up more. And funny story about the blind men describing the elephant :) same idea but from a different perspective.

Both Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Peat point to Yudkin's book about sugar, Pure, White, and Deadly. Lonsdale said it was such a shame that people didn't take it seriously because sugar depletes thiamine and Peat said it was a ridiculous book because the pancreas needs sugar to make mature beta cells that are able to produce insulin.

Thiamine Deficiency and Sugar in Diabetes - Hormones Matter

Sugar requires thiamine to metabolize it, in much the same way as gasoline requires a spark plug to burn it. Eating sugar easily overwhelms the power of thiamine to carry out its function.

www.hormonesmatter.com

"In 1973, John Yudkin, a professor of nutrition in a large London Hospital wrote a book with the title “Sweet and Dangerous”, the result of his many years of research into the dangers of sugar. He reported that many diseases, including heart disease, were related to its ingestion. As so often happens, this terribly important book was ignored and cholesterol became the demon for the cause of heart disease. Now, 40 years later, many people know that the cholesterol story has been debunked. Because sugar requires vitamin B 1 to metabolize it, in much the same way as gasoline requires a spark plug to burn it, taking sugar on its own in the form of empty calories easily overwhelms the power of thiamine to carry out its function."
The pancreas also needs a lot of thiamine in order to function properly."

also this:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

"The pancreas is one of the richest stores of thiamine in the human body, and the metabolic derangement induced by thiamine deficiency causes a major decrease in digestive enzyme secretion. This is one of the reasons why those affected often see undigested food in stools. Another reason likely due to a lack of brush border enzymes located on the intestinal wall, which are responsible for further breaking down food pre-absorption. These enzymes include sucrase, lactase, maltase, leucine aminopeptidase and alkaline phosphatase. Thiamine deficiency was shown to reduce the activity of each of these enzymes by 42-66%."

Interesting on the vitamin K and hair loss......... I hadn't made that connection.

I've never read that vitamin k will cause hair loss. But it happened to me and the only thing that I had changed was to take a much higher dose of k.

The TMG was actually for the methyl- groups. I had actually suspected that I had been over-supplementing B vitamins, and that I may have used up all methyl- groups (or be under-methylating). I didn't take this for very long at all though - who knows... I was / am clutching at straws.

Ray Peat did not believe in encouraging methylation so I'm pretty gun shy about it. He believed that science didn't really know about it well enough and encouraging methylation might turn off desirable genes.

New Page Title Here

New descriptive sentence from the article here

raypeat.com

"DNA methylation and cancer therapy: new developments and expectations. Esteller M.
Cancer Epigenetics Laboratory, Spanish National Cancer Centre (CNIO) Madrid,
Spain. [email protected]
PURPOSE OF REVIEW: In addition to having genetic causes, cancer can also be
considered an epigenetic disease. The main epigenetic modification is DNA
methylation, and patterns of aberrant DNA methylation are now recognized to be a
common hallmark of human tumors. One of the most characteristic features is the
inactivation of tumor-suppressor genes by CpG-island hypermethylation of the CpG
islands located in their promoter regions. These sites, among others, are the
targets of DNA-demethylating agents, the promising chemotherapeutic drugs that
are the focus of this article."
Here's a quick video (there's ads at the end you can ignore):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEF6a09zd4

And yes, I have been concerned about calcium to phosphate ratio for some time - I struggle to digest much dairy (I think due to the casein) - I believe I only get about 800-1000mg of calcium per day without using supplements, I have approximated phosphate at around 1200-1500... I had seen some forum users saying that looking for specific ratios is pretty unhelpful and orthorexic - was advised to shoot for c. 1g of calcium and not to worry too much about phosphate unless extremely high (basically, don't have too much meat, avoid grains).

Dr. Peat would say that milk has "the ideal" calcium/phosphate ratio, which I think he said was 50/50. He wasn't a fan of muscle meats.

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

Considerable amounts of some chemicals, such as sodium citrate, are allowed to add to the weight of the meat. The use of ozone and hydrogen peroxide to deodorize meat causes instantaneous oxidative changes, including lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyl formation, as well as increasing water...

raypeat.com

actually I'd rather purified powdered CaCO3 from limestone than from ground up eggshells because I'm lazy / don't have a grinder / paranoid about not sterilizing the shells properly. But for both, I was a bit worried about contamination with heavy metals.

The best grinder I have is my old blender. Works great! But it burps a cloud of calcium dust into the kitchen when opened. My method: wash the shells. Then boil the shells for 10 minutes. Then stack the shells open side down on a cookie sheet and bake them at around 300 degrees for 10-15 minutes. Then pulverize them in the blender.

Now, if I drink more than about 2 cups of milk in a day, it pretty badly upsets my digestion (no stomach pain, just that the proteins are not digested at all)

Ray Peat would encourage people to try to drink a little milk (1/4 cup?) daily for 30 days; he said this would encourage the body to start making the needed enzymes again to digest the milk.

I have tried carrot salads for some time with no changes, although I have heard that mushrooms are better for reducing endotoxin etc... I haven't used them consistently enough to notice. Could try flower of sulphur...

I have a very long history of gut dysbiosis (leaky gut, SIBO, low stomach acid, poor esophageal peristalsis). All my problems went away after taking high dose thiamine hcl (1 gram, 2Xday).

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[ArtIt]

Full fat milk?

Yes, full fat milk. But it should be the same with a reduced fat milk, since there is at least the same amount of calcium in it. As it is in my first comment, the same body temperature raise I get when I add to breakfast (for example to potatoes) 2 grams of calcium carbonate.

 

[Jennifer]

@Jennifer yes that includes egg shell :) actually I'd rather purified powdered CaCO3 from limestone than from ground up eggshells because I'm lazy / don't have a grinder / paranoid about not sterilizing the shells properly. But for both, I was a bit worried about contamination with heavy metals. I managed to get the certificate of analysis from heiltropfen and it looks pretty good - but as we know, even 1 ppm of heavy metals could potentially cause problems over time with enough use.

I don't think I was intolerant to dairy as a child, but hard to know for sure. I only actually noticed a serious intolerance when I tried to do a "raw milk diet" for a while - caused severe constipation very quickly... I wouldn't have guessed that it was a true allergy - just inability to digest it for some reason. Now, if I drink more than about 2 cups of milk in a day, it pretty badly upsets my digestion (no stomach pain, just that the proteins are not digested at all).

Yes, only been using thyroid for 3 months. Never before.

I definitely am suspecting some sort of under (udder?) the radar infection - but not confident enough to take the dive into antibiotics. I have tried carrot salads for some time with no changes, although I have heard that mushrooms are better for reducing endotoxin etc... I haven't used them consistently enough to notice. Could try flower of sulphur...

To be honest, the heavy metals never concerned me. I think the positives far outweigh the negatives. Eggshell calcium from sterilized, pastured eggs is available online. I’ve seen it on Etsy, pet supply retailers and if I’m not mistaken, Forefront Health sells it.

LOL at udder. I can understand your hesitation in using antibiotics. You could always take a hydrogen breath test or comprehensive stool test before experimenting with them, just to make sure they’re actually warranted?

 

[proteome]

I get a complete thyroid panel (blood testing) every 6 months.

What blood tests are included in that panel, in case we wanted to order something similar for ourselves from, say, Fast Blood Lab Tests. No Doctor Visit. Blood Testing Near You | Private MD Labs

 

[proteome]

I had one thyroid panel performed Jan/Feb of this year:

Thyroglobulin Antibodies	383	0 - 115	IU/mL	Very high autoimmunity / inflammation - probably been high for years (vitiligo for 14 years c. age 18)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies	400	0 - 34	IU/mL	Very high autoimmunity / inflammation - probably been high for years (vitiligo for 14 years c. age 18)
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)	2.7	0.27 - 4.2	mIU/L	Relatively high by Peat standards - Dr's said I was "euthyroid"
Thyroxine (T4, free direct)	17.7	12 - 22	pmol/L	mid-range
Triiodothyronine (T3, free)	4.8	3.1 - 6.8	pmol/L	mid-range

I came to understand from this forum and others that the T3 and T4 blood levels were actually a bit useless (and even TSH), and not really a reliable indicator of tissue saturation / tissue levels. I was told to treat symptoms, not blood values (there are people with TSH below one who still have hypo- symptoms and low temps) - I was initially somewhat skeptical, but the autoimmunity was hard to ignore, and the symptoms matched up perfectly. I could not get reverse T3 measured.

Why couldn't you get reverse T3 measured? I was about to suggest that, since it's a more reliable diagnostic indicator than these others, from what I've read and heard.