Liver: Anti-thyroid, Vit A, Copper

north

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Dec 21, 2013
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Peat often says liver is anti-thyroid, but what specifically in it makes it anti-thyroid?
I had a thought to increase liver, to try and get more vitamin A but not exactly sure of all the pro's and the con's.
I'd also like to get more copper from non-oyster source, caus oysters are so expensive here.

My thoughts,
Vit A is unsaturated.
Vit A competes with T3 for transportation (I have no idea if this is legit, i read this but dont remember where).
Tryptophan content.
Iron.

But if one tries to minimize that? Ex, coffee and gelatin together with the liver?
How does one know if Vit A is needed? Or if you get to much?

I think i have low pregnenolone, so i thought i could try to get more vit a to support conversion from cholesterol -> pregn.

Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge to share?
Thank you!
 

Blossom

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I think it's the amino acid cysteine specifically that is the issue with liver being anti-thyroid. It's still so awesome as a source of nutrients that he recommends eating it every week or two anyway depending on your individual needs. I know some eat it more and some less than the week to 10 day general guideline. I've heard of once every two weeks being acceptable. The cronometer always helps me know what I need. I always have coffee with gelatin and plenty of low vitamin c sugar with a liver meal to balance amino acids and avoid iron overload as much as possible.
 

himsahimsa

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Cysteine

It's hard to get really fresh liver in Central Florida. There are some Halal butchers though. They do goat. I'm going to try them.

If you're not mightily struggling with thyroid, eating some liver, even if it is somewhat antithyroid, wouldn't matter much, no? And if eating it is not a daily thing. That would further mitigate any harm.

This might be pertinent:
I started thyroid (dried gland from NZ then Cyto..) about 6 weeks ago, just about when I started avoiding cysteine and methionine as per RP. I worked up to 3 grains per day. I thought my lifetime normal temp of 97.4 could use some tweaking. Nothing..Nothing nothing nothing. I took my temperature 4 time a day, at least. Including if I woke up a 3 in the morning, well shaken down.

But as I have ranted, I am very fond of the glutathiones and figure I can both satisfy low daily blood levels of cysteine over the long term and still get my GSH by taking 3 or 4 grams of NAC on alternate weekends. So last weekend I took 3.6 grams (6,0.6 gram caps). My temperature immediately went to up and is more or less stable at 98.4 (crept higher). I have had to back off on the thyroid to keep it down. And I have been taking the NAC daily.

But anyway... I conclude T4 sat around picking its teeth till I provided cysteine for glutathione.
 

Mittir

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That looks like a reasonable approach. If you take into account that RP thinks
muscle meat is anti thyroid for its amino acids composition, especially high content
of tryptophan, cysteine and methionine.He recommends using gelatin to balance
muscle meat. Main difference between muscle meat and liver is that
cysteine content of liver is almost double that of some cut of muscle meat.
Cysteine content of 100 grams of
beef liver = 376 mg ( 20 grams protein)
skinless chicken breast = 300 mg ( 23 grams protein)
ground beef 90 percent lean hamburger = 200 mg ( 20 grams of protein)
Ground beef also has low tryptophan. It looks like there is good
amount of gelatinous part in ground beef.
So eating 50 grams of liver is almost close to eating
100 grams of ground beef in cysteine content.
Liver is very high in phosphorus ,100 grams of chicken breast 184 and liver 387.
Large amount of calcium with that liver meal should take care of
phosphorus problem,1 to 1 is a good ratio. I used to eat a lot of muscle meat and felt
terrible until i started adding calcium supplement with it.
Calcium also helps with converting tryptophan to niacin.
He did mention that vitamin A compete with thyroid transport.
One way to figure out need for vitamin A is to notice how you feel and
craving for vitamin A rich food.
For a while i was eating close to a pound weekly, when i started
light therapy. Now i eat 1 oz daily and have lowered the wattage of light
therapy. If i miss liver for few days i start having strong craving for it.
If i try to eat a lot of liver, suddenly it tastes terrible.
I believe there is a strong internal craving system that decides
how much liver we need.
By Measuring pulse and temp 1-2 hours after breakfast, you can gauge your
thyroid status as you increase your liver intake.
 

north

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Thanks!
1 oz liver per day? Sounds like a lot compared to the 1 serv / week.
Thanks for the input, i'll try get some more, about twice per week, and check for changes.
I never really liked liver tho, i feel like eating it now and then but that might be more psychological.
 

Mittir

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prototypejohn said:
Thanks!
1 oz liver per day? Sounds like a lot compared to the 1 serv / week.
Thanks for the input, i'll try get some more, about twice per week, and check for changes.
I never really liked liver tho, i feel like eating it now and then but that might be more psychological.

RP mentioned that average person who is likely to be hypothyroid needs
about 5000 IU, which is also 100 percent of RDA.
1 oz of liver provides close to 5000 IU.
I also get about 1000 IU vitamin A from 1 quart of milk.
RP mentioned 3-6 oz liver weekly with egg and milk.
The taste of liver varies a lot depending on the quality.
I buy fresh liver and cut into 1oz pieces and cook 1 oz everyday.
I did not like the taste of liver in the beginning.
If you cut the liver into very small pieces and wash it well
before cooking then it does not taste bad at all.
If i try to eat 3 oz of liver, it taste fine first few bites
and then suddenly it tastes bad.
If the liver taste bad from the start that
probably means there is something wrong with the quality of liver.
 

Blossom

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Mittir said:
prototypejohn said:
Thanks!
1 oz liver per day? Sounds like a lot compared to the 1 serv / week.
Thanks for the input, i'll try get some more, about twice per week, and check for changes.
I never really liked liver tho, i feel like eating it now and then but that might be more psychological.

RP mentioned that average person who is likely to be hypothyroid needs
about 5000 IU, which is also 100 percent of RDA.
1 oz of liver provides close to 5000 IU.
I also get about 1000 IU vitamin A from 1 quart of milk.
RP mentioned 3-6 oz liver weekly with egg and milk.
The taste of liver varies a lot depending on the quality.
I buy fresh liver and cut into 1oz pieces and cook 1 oz everyday.
I did not like the taste of liver in the beginning.
If you cut the liver into very small pieces and wash it well
before cooking then it does not taste bad at all.
If i try to eat 3 oz of liver, it taste fine first few bites
and then suddenly it tastes bad.
If the liver taste bad from the start that
probably means there is something wrong with the quality of liver.
That is such a fabulous idea to eat a smaller amount like 1oz daily! That would somewhat circumvent any concern with so much cysteine on the day one would likely eat a 4 oz weekly serving. I'm thinking about trying this Mittir! I may see how just a 1/2 ounce goes for me, being a smaller person, or even 1 ounce every other day would still be an option. This is great info!
 

north

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Oh yeah 1 oz is just 30g, its not toooo far from the recommended weekly amount.
I have the exact same experience when i eat it, first 3-4 oz is fine, then i just dont want more and usually dont eat the last pieces. Im gonna try about 3 oz every 3rd day.

I just read this also: "Zinc is an essential structural component of many vitamin A-related proteins, including the primary protein that transports vitamin A through the blood"
So zinc might make the competition of thyroid and Vit A of the transportprotein lower by possibly(?) support building of those proteins. Zinc also improves uptake of Vit A.
http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble ... e-vitamins

I also read (by Chris Masterjohn) that 50% of europeans have a genetic mutation which gives them only half of "normal" ability to convert catotene to vit a, a third of eurpeans have only 1/4th of the ability.
That was a bit funny caus i just saw a pic of myself from 5-7 years ago, my palm looked a bit yellow in that pic so i might have low conversion rates of carotene. I dont really have that now but thats probably caus i dont eat much carotene rich foods (before starting peat as well) but i think i ate more carotene during those years.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
@Lisbon Boy
I mentioned in earlier post that i eat beef liver.
Veal has a much higher content of vitamin A than regular cow liver.
If you check cronometer or nutritiondata.com you will see
that 1 oz of raw beef liver has 4700 IU and cooked beef liver 7300 IU
raw veal liver has 10,900 IU and cooked veal 19,000.
Cooked = pan fried.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... cts/3468/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lam ... cts/4671/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... cts/3470/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lam ... cts/4673/2

I chose beef over veal liver, because i wanted to have lot more copper and
B vitamins, Vitamin K without taking too much vitamin A.
If someone needs extra vitamin A then veal liver is a better choice.
RP himself measured vitamin K content of beef liver and it is quite high.
It does not show in nutrients chart. I do not know if vitamin K content
of veal liver is same as beef liver.
 

north

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Dec 21, 2013
Messages
156
Does anyone have experience with symptoms from deficiency vs excessive Vit A?
Or is it similar in either case.
 

BingDing

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Location
Tennessee, USA
Re: Cysteine

himsahimsa said:
But as I have ranted, I am very fond of the glutathiones and figure I can both satisfy low daily blood levels of cysteine over the long term and still get my GSH by taking 3 or 4 grams of NAC on alternate weekends. So last weekend I took 3.6 grams (6,0.6 gram caps). My temperature immediately went to up and is more or less stable at 98.4 (crept higher). I have had to back off on the thyroid to keep it down. And I have been taking the NAC daily.

But anyway... I conclude T4 sat around picking its teeth till I provided cysteine for glutathione.

Bump to follow up, himsahimsa. Are you taking NAC only on weekends at 3.6 g, or every day? Any thoughts?

I got some blood work back and glutathione was deficient. The lab report said the same thing you did in another thread, NAC is the limiting substrate for glutathione. Glutathione is more of a plus than cysteine is a negative right now, but I might as well try to be as smart as possible.

TIA
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
Re: Cysteine

BingDing said:
himsahimsa said:
But as I have ranted, I am very fond of the glutathiones and figure I can both satisfy low daily blood levels of cysteine over the long term and still get my GSH by taking 3 or 4 grams of NAC on alternate weekends. So last weekend I took 3.6 grams (6,0.6 gram caps). My temperature immediately went to up and is more or less stable at 98.4 (crept higher). I have had to back off on the thyroid to keep it down. And I have been taking the NAC daily.

But anyway... I conclude T4 sat around picking its teeth till I provided cysteine for glutathione.

Bump to follow up, himsahimsa. Are you taking NAC only on weekends at 3.6 g, or every day? Any thoughts?

I got some blood work back and glutathione was deficient. The lab report said the same thing you did in another thread, NAC is the limiting substrate for glutathione. Glutathione is more of a plus than cysteine is a negative right now, but I might as well try to be as smart as possible.

TIA

You could use liposomal glutathione, although it would require selling a kidney.
 
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