Lack of masculinity in teens

[UphillEndeavors]

Parenting is a huge factor. All things aside, a kid spending his time chopping wood and tossing hay would likely be more masculine than a kid spending his hours looking at his phone playing video games.

But, yes. Diet, rise of feminism, etc. is also at play.

 

[TomS]

When we walk in the downtown of Salzburg city (next to German border) I often see young American males. Their face seems rather feminine signs than masculine ones. Face of Austrian women, young and middle ages, seem very similar, i.e their facebones do not differ to much. My girl friend also said the same.
May be, the high estrogen level makes it?

 

[Jon2547]

True maturation is about accepting and affirming the biblical man and woman, mothers and fathers, husbands and wives.

 

[CiggyTardust]

I remember someone citing a study once that showed the offspring of rats given birth control came out highly feminized... it was hypothesized at the time (the 80s I believe) that approaching the year 2000 there would be a huge wave of highly feminized, often homosexual men due to the prevalence of birth control in the preceding generation. I don't know about you, but when I look around these last 20 years it certainly makes sense...

 

[PxD]

So many variables have changed over the years: nutrition, endocrine disruptors, electromagnetic radiation, internet porn, ideological education in schools, lack of male role models, overprotective parents, less responsibility, lack of sunlight and movement, "affluent neglect", ideological propaganda in the media,...

Too many to count. It's almost impossible to find an answer to this.

I will relate my experience, moving from a private boys' school where I grew up in Africa to a public school in a wealthy American small town when I was 17, a couple of decades ago. The boys in the former were vastly more masculine than in the latter.

The older 11th and 12th graders in the former often resembled physically grown men, with developed musculature and facial hair. Every boy in school was required to play a sport competitively every term, four days a week. The alternative was to sit in detention for 3 hours every day. There was a strict disciplinarian culture which the school euphemistically described as "building character" and a ton of hazing of younger boys by the older kids, most of it pretty cruel and pointless. Amongst the 12th graders (17 or 18 years old), a subset were promoted to the position of 'prefect' and had the authority to mete out discipline/punishments at will, which they eagerly exercised. There was a strong emphasis on excellence in academics, the arts, and sports, as the school had a reputation to uphold. There was also strong emphasis on hierarchy and authority (very anti-Peat). For example, boys in 7th and 8th grades would be assigned to carry out daily tasks for boys in 12th grade, literally like a servant. The school food was utter garbage, typical Western modern diet and borderline calorie deficient, but nonetheless things like hay fever, food allergies, chronic medication were virtually unheard of. Out of a typical grade level of 100 kids, maybe 5 or 6 would need to wear glasses. In 10th, 11th, and 12th grades we were always able to field a couple of track or rugby stars who could run a 10.x second 100 meter. Weather was fairly temperate year-round and so between that and the requirement to be active in sports, all the boys spent a LOT of time outdoors on the playing fields, often barefoot.

Contrast this with the school I moved to in Wealthytown, USA: the older boys were a lot skinnier and seemed more like tall, skinny children than young men. The school food was much better but the condition of the male student body was not. I was struck by how many kids had seasonal allergies (very common), were on some kind of drug like ritalin, or had intolerances or serious allergies to foods like nuts, eggs, etc. This remains true in my anecdotal observation to this day for Americans in general, as compared to the rest of the world. A much higher proportion of students wore glasses. This was before the smartphone era but even so the presence of and use of computers (screens) was vastly more common, as well as playing of video games, which were rare at my prior high school. The level of physical activity was low; most of the student body was sedentary. 40 minutes of basic PE per week was the only requirement. There was significantly more sex and drug use (weed), although later I came to understand this wasn't unusual by the standards of American high schools. There was also a higher proportion of fat and skinny-fat boys.

Demographically the schools were similar, probably 90% white Caucasian from affluent families.

My point with the story is to demonstrate how there was a massive gap in perceived physical and behavioral masculinity between the male students at the two schools which tied in with a bunch of other things, such as the dominant culture inside of the school, outside of the school in society as a whole, exposure to sunlight and the outdoors, level of physical activity, etc. There was also a big difference in levels of chronic health problems between the two schools, despite the nutrition at the American school being significantly better. I think teasing out any one single factor probably isn't the right approach when the answer is more likely complex and multifaceted - "all of the above". Keep in mind social media wasn't a factor since it didn't exist back then.

 

[CiggyTardust]

The school food was utter garbage, typical Western modern diet and borderline calorie deficient, but nonetheless things like hay fever, food allergies, chronic medication were virtually unheard of.

Reminds me of this study showing the rates of various illnesses being far lower among unvaccinated children vs. the vaccinated

 

[L_C]

Wrong. The Scriptures instruct men to love women as Christ loves the church. Without this humble lowering of oneself and servant-minded leadership, the whole thing falls apart. The dysfunction you are blaming on "patriarchy" is not because of what the Bible teaches... it's due to men abdicating their responsibility by either A) leading without love or B) not leading at all. This vacuum of leadership allowed the rise of feminism (a toxic, destabilizing subversive ideology) in the West.

I don't blame women for this mess, I blame men. And I'm sorry it seems enough men let you down in life for you to be infected by this poison.

As for OPs point, I have noticed this same dynamic in my generation (I am in my mid 30s). Testosterone levels have continually gone down and masculinity is demonized by the establishment. I think the causes are chemical, nutritional, lifestyle-related and cultural. Our culture has become tremendously feminized (look at university administration peopled by mostly women leading to policies that coddle, overprotect and avoid conflict at all costs) and traditionally masculine behaviors are discouraged or stigmatized. Much of it is probably a consequence of the industrial systems we live under but I do think there is an agenda involved as well... if you are an evil oligarch and wish to control the population, the first thing you do is stymy the masculinity of young males. Can you imagine the young men you see out in public mounting an armed revolution against the establishment? It's almost laughable.

If you read my first post above you would see I disagree with feminism and will embrace whatever feminine is left in me. I agree with your post completely minus the church part (but I'm not going to debate this one).

Ha, no there a few men who gave me hope that they can turn things around but I see many men who are cowards just like you see many women who are horrible feminists...

 

[lvysaur]

I believe it is the lack of masculine role models in our society today and the rise of feminist propaganda

On the contrary I think "propaganda" has nothing to do with it. You can't propagandize somebody into becoming biologically feminine lol. I've never looked at gay guys and thought "hey I want to do that too". Zoomer males aren't particularly feminist either, if anything the opposite.

I think the femininity/lack of masculinity is coming from a combination of environmental toxins and selection. One thing I've noticed in particular is the amount of Zoomers with lots of moles on their body.

 

[Dr. B]

I remember someone citing a study once that showed the offspring of rats given birth control came out highly feminized... it was hypothesized at the time (the 80s I believe) that approaching the year 2000 there would be a huge wave of highly feminized, often homosexual men due to the prevalence of birth control in the preceding generation. I don't know about you, but when I look around these last 20 years it certainly makes sense...

what about the masculine homosexual men?

 

[lvysaur]

what about the masculine homosexual men?

I remember hearing that the "tops" are harder to find than the "bottoms", lol

 

[Doc Sandoz]

The equation of gay male behavior with female hormones is yet another case of the biological reductionism so very common here on RayPeat, attributing any behavior some think abnormal to hormone imbalances. Did Raymond Burr strike anyone as feminine? Rock Hudson? Dave Kopay or dozens of other football players? Hundreds of other famous masculine men who turn out to be gay? How does one explain them with the hormone theory? Same goes for females, many lesbians are far more feminine than the typical female. Hormones may indeed be contributory in some cases of "counter-gender" behavior - which occurs in both gay and straight people BTW, but they are neither a reasonable nor sufficient explanation for so complex a phenomenon as sexuality in human psychology.

 

[Peatness]

The equation of gay male behavior with female hormones is yet another case of the biological reductionism so very common here on RayPeat, attributing any behavior some think abnormal to hormone imbalances. Did Raymond Burr strike anyone as feminine? Rock Hudson? Dave Kopay or dozens of other football players? Hundreds of other famous masculine men who turn out to be gay? How does one explain them with the hormone theory? Same goes for females, many lesbians are far more feminine than the typical female. Hormones may indeed be contributory in some cases of "counter-sexual" behavior - which occurs in both gay and straight people BTW, but they are neither a reasonable nor sufficient explanation for so complex a phenomenon as sexuality in human psychology.

Very well articulated

 

[CiggyTardust]

The equation of gay male behavior with female hormones is yet another case of the biological reductionism so very common here on RayPeat, attributing any behavior some think abnormal to hormone imbalances. Did Raymond Burr strike anyone as feminine? Rock Hudson? Dave Kopay or dozens of other football players? Hundreds of other famous masculine men who turn out to be gay? How does one explain them with the hormone theory? Same goes for females, many lesbians are far more feminine than the typical female. Hormones may indeed be contributory in some cases of "counter-gender" behavior - which occurs in both gay and straight people BTW, but they are neither a reasonable nor sufficient explanation for so complex a phenomenon as sexuality in human psychology.

Fair enough. But you can't honestly tell me, looking around at American popular culture, that men haven't become highly feminized? That transgenderism and homosexuality are far more common now than in decades past? It's a trend that I'm saying could be accounted for, in part, by the widespread use of birth control in the previous generation. This hypothesis was based on studying rats exhibiting the same traits if I recall correctly. I'm not saying the hormonal cause is 100% behind rising rates of homosexuality but I do suspect it's certainly contributing... especially when you take into account all the other xenoestrogens we are bombarded with on a daily basis.

 

[Herbie]

I think a major part of masculinity is created by hard physical labour not the gym, less physical jobs these days

 

[CiggyTardust]

If you read my first post above you would see I disagree with feminism and will embrace whatever feminine is left in me. I agree with your post completely minus the church part (but I'm not going to debate this one).

Ha, no there a few men who gave me hope that they can turn things around but I see many men who are cowards just like you see many women who are horrible feminists...

My mistake, I misunderstood your post. Good to hear that you didn't buy into that bitter, resentful ideology. I'm definitely not looking to debate church doctrine, just incorrect or incomplete representations of scripture. According to any orthodox interpretation of scripture there isn't any excuse for treating women poorly... if anything Jesus treated women exceedingly well compared to cultural norms at the time.

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Fair enough. But you can't honestly tell me, looking around at American popular culture, that men haven't become highly feminized? That transgenderism and homosexuality are far more common now than in decades past? It's a trend that I'm saying could be accounted for, in part, by the widespread use of birth control in the previous generation. This hypothesis was based on studying rats exhibiting the same traits if I recall correctly. I'm not saying the hormonal cause is 100% behind rising rates of homosexuality but I do suspect it's certainly contributing... especially when you take into account all the other xenoestrogens we are bombarded with on a daily basis.

Hard to say whether homosexuality is more common now than in the past. Maybe its just more visible. As the old line goes, "the love that dare not speak its name became the love that won't shut up" (mostly of necessity due to the AIDS crisis). People identifying as opposite gender could be similarly accounted for, always around but less visible. Hell, the film Glen or Glenda was made in the '50s.

Then there is the matter of how to account for the many "feminine-acting" presumably hetero boys - metrosexuals or soyboys in today's vernacular - why are they still hetero if there is an overload of feminine hormones that supposedly causes homosexuality? Shouldn't they be gay? I will concede that there may be hormones involved in allegedly feminized boys of either straight or gay persuasion, but I know of no evidence that suggests homosexuality itself is a hormonal phenomenon.

 

[InChristAlone]

Homosexuality could be a result of a significant Father wound.

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Homosexuality could be a result of a significant Father wound.

Certainly a possibility, at least according classical psychoanalytic theory. However a more recent view is that in most instances homosexuality is not pathological in any way. (It was removed from the DSM of mental disorders in 1973). Indeed, another theory tries to explain the orientation as simply one of gene expression, a natural variant that increases with the population, a buffering phenomenon when overcrowding threatens a species. At any rate, the complexity of the human mind defies easy one-size-fits-all explanation of such questions.

 

[InChristAlone]

Certainly a possibility, at least according classical psychoanalytic theory. However a more recent view is that in most instances homosexuality is not pathological in any way. (It was removed from the DSM of mental disorders in 1973). Indeed, another theory tries to explain the orientation as simply one of gene expression, a natural variant that increases with the population, a buffering phenomenon when overcrowding threatens a species. At any rate, the complexity of the human mind defies easy one-size-fits-all explanation of such questions.

I wouldn't call it some kind of mental disease. But as it relates to masculine and feminine energy, for instance a woman attracted to other women may have significant masculine wounding making her feel attracted to the feminine because she herself has abandoned her feminine side due to feeling unsafe. The masculine makes her feel unsafe. It could also be a childhood experience, like say playing doctor with the same sex and being exposed to too much too soon which can shape attraction connections in the brain. The more you think about and act on those connections the stronger they will be.

 

[Dr. B]

Certainly a possibility, at least according classical psychoanalytic theory. However a more recent view is that in most instances homosexuality is not pathological in any way. (It was removed from the DSM of mental disorders in 1973). Indeed, another theory tries to explain the orientation as simply one of gene expression, a natural variant that increases with the population, a buffering phenomenon when overcrowding threatens a species. At any rate, the complexity of the human mind defies easy one-size-fits-all explanation of such questions.

whats that mean? the father was wounded before having the child, or the father wounded the child in some way