Increase Masculinity, Decrease Femininity

[Perseus]

Hello,

I am a new user. I discovered this forum while on a quest to increase my biological levels of masculinity. This is something that I have been trying to do for quite a while now, and I have acquired most of my current knowledge on this subject by reading through a blog called "Anabolic Men."

Things that I am already doing to increase my levels of masculinity: strength training, attempting to get good quality sleep, NoFap (controversial but it works for me), ingestion of the following substances: tongkat ali, creatine, shilajit, vitamins A/B/C/D3/E/K2, magnesium glycinate, zinc gluconate, brazil nuts for selenium, and eating a diet focused on boosting T levels.

Things that I am aware I ought to be doing but am not for various reasons: HIIT exercises, intermittent fasting.

I am insecure about my masculinity.

Spoiler

For example, being unable to grow a beard naturally, I resorted to applying minoxidil to my face which has been a success. I have been on it for over a year now and am continuing as there are still some bald patches, but overall I am very pleased with the results.

Another thing I am insecure about is what I believe to be a poor shoulder to waist ratio and a body type some would call "ectomorphic," but sadly it seems like there isn't much I can do about this apart from developing my shoulder musculature to its fullest extent (unless some of you are aware of a way of increasing clavicle length. I am 23 years old if this matters in terms of bone fusing etc.). I also have a fairly neotonous face – one could have called androgynous until the appearance of my artificially grown facial hair – which only adds to my insecurities. I believe I must have received an inadequate amount of pre-natal testosterone.

The biggest problem is what I perceive to be very low energy levels and a low drive to get things done.

Spoiler

On the big five personality tests, I score exceptionally high in neuroticism, exceptionally low in industriousness and low in extroversion. My only redeeming quality seems to be that I'm not an idiot, and the most masculine thing about me seems to be in my way of thinking (logically inclined, fairly assertive when I believe I am right, and placing little importance in the realm of feelings as opposed to facts which can make me come across as a heartless bellend at times). Other than that, I basically feel like my genes coded me to be a wimp and I'd like to change this.

L-tryptophan (precursor to serotonin which I believe I am naturally deficient in) every night, as well as daily meditation and NoFap seem to have strong effects in reducing my neuroticism and introversion. However, my low energy / low industriousness / lack of drive seem to stem from my inherent lack of masculinity and I have been unable thus far to change this to a level that I would think adequate; I initially thought NoFap would help, but although it helps me in boosting my confidence levels and reducing my social anxiety, it actually doesn't help at all in my productivity. If anything, my head is less clear than "usual" as thoughts of sex come and go very often. I do not have any problems in terms of libido.

One aspect of my low energy is directly visible in my lack of strength. Although I have been strength training for a couple of years now, and although I managed to get from grossly skinny to a relatively normal weight for my height, my strength is still ridiculously low for the amount of time that I have been training and I have great trouble in breaking plateaus and adding new muscle mass. In other words, I have the impression that I'm working my arse off at the gym just to achieve a body that looks completely normal.

Starting from last year, I noticed that my nipples were getting puffy. I did not suffer from pubertal gyno, and I am currently in my early 20s. I do not believe that it is simply "fat" as I have tried cutting and they seemed too puffy for my BF%. I can also feel some solid lumps. I have various theories as to how this gyno appeared but none I'm too sure of. However, my main concern is in getting rid of it.

To attempt to combat this, I tried various aromatase inhibiting supplements, many of which sadly did not agree with my stomach and made me piss out of my arse (i3c, grape seed extract, champignon extract). The ones that were fine for me to ingest were quercetin as well as apigenin from chamomile tea, but after supplementing for several months and not seeing any reduction in my puffy nipples, I am unsure as to whether I should buy them again and am currently not taking any aromatase supplements.

This all leads me to this forum.

I have been reading around for a bit and have gained interest in pansterone and androsterone. However, there seems to be some conflicting opinions: whereas the person who sells these products asserts that these should theoretically reduce estrogen in the body and increase testosterone, I have seen a couple of users who seem to suspect these products to have caused them puffy/itchy nipples which is something I'm trying to get rid of.

I am also interested in kuinone and magnoil which seem to be superior methods of delivering K2 and magnesium to the body.

After reading about progesterone, it seems to me like something I ought to avoid, but perhaps I am wrong.

If there are other products I ought to know about, please tell me. I am new to most things discussed on this forum. I am unfamiliar with Ray Peat but I am interested in learning more about him and his ideas.

All in all I would love to hear your opinions on what should be used and avoided in my particular case. This forum seems to contain a vast wealth of valuable information and I am eager to lurk around a lot more.

I'd also like you to help me understand the differences between the available options of "tocopherols / MCT" and "SFA ester / ethanol" present in some of the products in the shop. Are there some pros and cons I need to be aware of?

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Perseus]

PS: although I'm not particularly worried about the size of my penis, if anybody has knowledge on ways to increase length and girth, please feel free to contribute. "Every little helps" as they say. I am aware that there are mechanical ways such as jelqing and a special pump designed for PE, but I am also aware of their potential dangers. It might be something I will keep in mind and perhaps do in the future but right now I'll avoid those particular methods until I'm positively sure about the balance between risk and reward.

Will applying any of the products mentioned in the OP, directly on the penis, have any particular effect in enlarging the penis, or am I better off just applying those products to the scrotum as recommended?

 

[Wolf]

Give martial arts a shot. Masculinity is usually a function of the brain and not the body. Plenty of manly looking men who can't take a hit, work, or deal with any stress beyond an office job.
Don't overdo it of course, but learn to step outside your comfort zone. This comes from teaching a martial art for an odd 8 years as a side gig.
Also, dhea applied to the scrotum/crotch area[shave] has something like a 50% conversion to dht through 5ar, niacinamide and glycine upregulate that stupid enzyme. Just take it easy on those or you'll be forced to go borderline no fat diet. Vitamin d will prolong the half life. I already was a high dht sort of guy before, but an extra inch or two was still feasible. Don't chase your sexual organ. You'll end up eating weird ***t like yin yang huo, yohimbine, maca, citrulline/arginine, etc and letting that energy guide your decisions.
If you're stuck on strength training and want the quick way for mass then start exclusively squatting with a smolov style program and eating in excess(still limit PUFA). Take care to stretch in between sessions and roll out your legs. No reason you can't put on 10-20 lbs mass through spinal loading in a few months that way. Once you have that solid base everything goes from there.
This post is scattered, but that's the best you're getting from me on a phone.

 

[Vinero]

Stop taking tryptophan. Serotonin lowers testosterone and lowers metabolism. You will have more succes with lowering serotonin by ingesting BCAA, which compete with tryptophan in the brain and deplete serotonin. Good that you are taking magnesium and zinc, as these increase testosterone and lower estrogen and serotonin. Don't forget the calcium though, as calcium lowers prolactin and powerfully increases metabolism and dopamine. Calcium increases dopamine, and dopamine is the alpha male hormone in my opinion. Dopamine increases drive, motivation and gives a sense of power and security. Try eating low-fat cheese, milk or meat with 5-10 grams of BCAA and fruit juice/soda to deplete serotonin and increase dopamine.

 

[schultz]

I encourage you to read Ray's articles. You won't get a direct answer from doing this but it will give you the knowledge (eventually) to piece things together on your own.

 

[Vinero]

"On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases. More than 20 years ago, a chemical (p-chlorophenylalanine) that inhibits serotonin synthesis was found to tremendously increase libido."
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

here is the thread that discusses depleting serotonin with BCAA
Depleting Serotonin With BCAA

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe a little bit more of accepting yourself as you are? Including your penis size.

 

[Tom K]

I have been engaged in the martial arts for 43 years. I do not recommend the arts as a solution. There are people that do not like the arts after attempting to participate. If you fall into that category it is more likely that you will experience a negative outcome than a positive experience. You may learn how to fight, but I know many people that can kick **** but remain emotionally invalids. Do not substitute one problem for another. Emotionally, you have to establish your standards of behavior and well being. Do not allow others to determine masculinity or femininity.

On a more practical level, have your testosterone levels, especially free testosterone. Some people have high levels of SHBG which will nullify the highest testosterone levels. Keto diets (of which I consume) can increase SHBG in many people, so mildly increasing carbohydrate, reducing protein, increasing fat is indicated if your SHBG is high. Get sun every morning, to establish circadian rhythms which play a large role in hormone homeostasis. I wish you well.

 

[Tarmander]

Find meaning and reason in your life and alot of these issues will fade away. You are trying to go: Good Hormones ---> good life...instead go Good life/Meaning ----> good hormones.

 

[Tom K]

To suggest that hormones and other endogenous factors are not a possible link is living in denial. For those of us that have provided intervention in these patients and observed both physical and psychological improvements remarks like these are not helpful. In essence, you are blaming the patient as having a slovenly attitude for not finding meaning in his life. To deny the biological influences on behavior and substitute Newt Rockne cliches is not indicated.

 

[Makrosky]

To suggest that hormones and other endogenous factors are not a possible link is living in denial. For those of us that have provided intervention in these patients and observed both physical and psychological improvements remarks like these are not helpful. In essence, you are blaming the patient as having a slovenly attitude for not finding meaning in his life. To deny the biological influences on behavior and substitute Newt Rockne cliches is not indicated.

He's not denying anything nor blaming anyone. He's giving a good recommendation that is, at the least, a very good thing to give it a try. Harmless, free and 100% free of side effects and 100% compatible with any other chemical intervention you would like to apply. Not easy to do though.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I appear to be having a lot of success with taurine, 2g a day right now. I've been more motivated, less stressed, happier, and don't need to eat as often. I experience hunger instead of blood sugar drops.

One commenter threw shade on citrulline, but it's one of the few supplements I've experienced direct evidence of working. I experienced an effortless "largeness" in my erections, a feeling which improves the sexual experience (the effortless part does). I think it also helped lessen fatigue when lifting weights. Citrulline is safer than arginine, anyway. I took it two times a week.

If you're trying to gain mass, I recommend milk. The increase in muscle that I got when I started drinking raw whole milk still amazes me. Before I started drinking milk again, the last time I lifted weights was 6 months prior. After drinking milk, I didn't lift weights for a year, and I put on muscle. I put on some fat, too, which I am still trying to resolve. I put on more muscle by drinking raw whole milk than I did doing Rippetoe's Starting Strength for 4 months while on a paleo diet. (The jobs I had during that year were reasonably physical, though, but I also had them during my weightlifting program. It's not just about stimulus.)

To attempt to combat this, I tried various aromatase inhibiting supplements, many of which sadly did not agree with my stomach and made me piss out of my arse (i3c, grape seed extract, champignon extract). The ones that were fine for me to ingest were quercetin as well as apigenin from chamomile tea, but after supplementing for several months and not seeing any reduction in my puffy nipples, I am unsure as to whether I should buy them again and am currently not taking any aromatase supplements.

I would stop quercetin. I think I was listening to Atom Bergstrom and he said something about its mechanism of action that made me question its use, especially long term. I can't remember what it was, but most of the time these hippie health store supplements have a dark side, usually by suppressing the immune system.

After reading about progesterone, it seems to me like something I ought to avoid, but perhaps I am wrong.

It really helped Nathan Hatch in his recovery, so he is a big fan of it. You can read his book, F*ck Portion Control.

It can have some negative effects that are ideally short-term, so I would view it as a "trust the process" kind of supplement. I'm not taking it right now. When I did take it, I took it on weekends in order to avoid the daily stress of the rat race, and to space it out in order to not disrupt endogenous hormone production. The negative effects Nathan talks about are weight gain (from gut dysbiosis, he concludes) and a "suspension in male functions". People view weight gain as negative, but it is ultimately a healing function of the body.

Progesterone can be converted to cortisol. Both cortisol and estogen are the end products of hormones we see as beneficial, like DHEA, testosterone, progesterone. This seems problematic since it puts you on a razor's edge when recovering, but it makes sense in the wider context of the body maintaining homeostasis. I used to view this separation of good and bad hormones as a kind of bifurcation: your body is using the bad hormones instead of the good hormones. But there is no bifurcation, it's the same pathway. As you'll learn, estrogen and cortisol are appropriate responses to less optimal situations. Cortisol, for instance, will break down tissue for energy. So the body having the ability to convert these regenerative hormones into degenerative hormones is like an emergency stockpile when SHTF. In fact, it's probably not even an ability that the body evolved, because your body can do whatever kind of chemistry it wants. It can go back and forth between different molecules. It is doing the chemistry this way because it makes sense.

If you are going to use progesterone, you should really read Nathan's book.

I'd also like you to help me understand the differences between the available options of "tocopherols / MCT" and "SFA ester / ethanol" present in some of the products in the shop. Are there some pros and cons I need to be aware of?

Tocopherols are a form of Vitamin E. MCT is medium chain triglycerides. SFA is saturated fatty acid (an abbreviation I really only see used amongst the Peat-woke). Ester is an alcohol-acid compound. Ethanol is alcohol. Everything but the tocopherols are solutions in which to put other substances in.

 

[lampofred]

Basically all of Peat's ideas are focused on reducing estrogen, so I would recommend just going through Peat's articles on unsaturated fats, thyroid, serotonin so you can understand the big picture of what he's saying.

I think Peat would say isolated hormone supplementation should only be a last resort if the basics like avoiding PUFA, eating a daily carrot if you symptoms of endotoxin, getting adequate calcium and 80+ grams of protein daily, maintaining an 80+ BPM and a temperature that hits 98.6F by midday are not working.

Tryptophan might make you "feel" less estrogenic, but hormonally it will drastically suppress testosterone. Peat doesn't recommend increasing serotonin at all.

 

[Runenight201]

Eat a shitload of meat, eggs, fruit, and starch. Get some sun, exercise.

The reason why your training progress is so slow is because your diet sucks. Once you provide your body with superfluous amounts of protein and carbs along with the other micronutrients that are found in meat, fruit, and starch, strength and confidence explodes.

And none of that restaurant ***t food, learn to cook your own beef/pork/chicken, rice, potatoes, buy your own fruit and oj, and explore from there.

You can mess around with hormones and supps, they definitely can add an edge, but if you don't get the fundamental basics of diet correct you won't improve.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Yeah, I forgot to mention temperature readings. Use them as a guide while you are getting yourself up to speed. Take them when you wake up and when you go to sleep and 30 minutes after you eat. Find out what raises your body temperature and eat/take that.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Welcome to the forum!

First off, I would echo the idea to stop taking tryptophan. Absolutely read Ray Peat's articles on Serotonin. There are also several threads on the benefits of Serotonin Antagonists, and Dopamine Agonists, and many, many strategies that people have employed to lower Serotonin and/or its effects.

Before starting any more supplements, you should probably get an idea of Ray Peat's ideas about diet and such. They are fairly simple recommendations, and actually make quite a bit of sense, but go so against what has been labeled "healthy" for so long, that many get confused.

This clip probably does a great overview in 12 minutes, and really explains why Ray hates PUFAs, and seems so found of sugar, and sugar containing foods-



Sleep is another good thing to focus on, since you're doing it 8 hours a day. Check out the Inclined Bed Therapy thread- Inclined Bed Therapy - Sleeping With The Head End Of The Bed Elevated

A lot of Ray's work is about minimizing the effects of stress hormones, and estrogen would likely be tops on that list, and serotonin not to far behind. There's many things to try, and go from simple dietary changes (with things like carrots and mushrooms), vitamins (E, Niacinamide), Aspirin, Progesterone, and other things mentioned on this forum. Don't get overwhelmed, and focus on the big stuff (like diet and sleep) first.

 

[Tom K]

He's not denying anything nor blaming anyone. He's giving a good recommendation that is, at the least, a very good thing to give it a try. Harmless, free and 100% free of side effects and 100% compatible with any other chemical intervention you would like to apply. Not easy to do though.

Not easy? I have treated patients in their senior years that continue to search for meaning, but are as happy as a clam with the search. Through different periods of our lives 'meaning' may have different interpretations. For someone that is reaching out for help, providing cliches like "Search for meaning' is akin to describing the ocean to a man that is drowning instead of throwing him a life vest. What is easy is to trivialize the emotional impact that another person experiences, be they derived from psychological or physical causes. I realize no harm was intended. But intention is not the barometer of outcomes. Trivializing what someone is experiencing by suggesting they 'Find meaning' or 'Try harder' when a physical problem exists is a recipe for depression.

 

[Makrosky]

Not easy? I have treated patients in their senior years that continue to search for meaning, but are as happy as a clam with the search. Through different periods of our lives 'meaning' may have different interpretations. For someone that is reaching out for help, providing cliches like "Search for meaning' is akin to describing the ocean to a man that is drowning instead of throwing him a life vest. What is easy is to trivialize the emotional impact that another person experiences, be they derived from psychological or physical causes. I realize no harm was intended. But intention is not the barometer of outcomes. Trivializing what someone is experiencing by suggesting they 'Find meaning' or 'Try harder' when a physical problem exists is a recipe for depression.

I don't want to keep this argument. I'm not seeing anyone trivializing anything here. But your own perception might vary.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

This clip probably does a great overview in 12 minutes, and really explains why Ray hates PUFAs, and seems so found of sugar, and sugar containing foods-



Sleep is another good thing to focus on, since you're doing it 8 hours a day. Check out the Inclined Bed Therapy thread- Inclined Bed Therapy - Sleeping With The Head End Of The Bed Elevated

That's a great clip. I also recommend IBT, or sleeping in a hammock.

 

[Perseus]

Thank you all for your replies. I will take into account everything you have said.

It seems as though I grossly misunderstood the serotonin hormone. Here's a reply that I wrote under a different thread talking about high serotonin personality:

I am confused by this post, because I recognise myself a lot in the personality description... but the thing is, in my mind I had serotonin labelled as a sort of "feel good" hormone and I believed that it was my lack of it -- not an excess of it -- that caused my personality traits (high neuroticism, low industriousness, low extroversion, sometimes aggressive behaviour, etc.).

Thus I have been taking L-tryptophan in an attempt to correct what I assumed was low serotonin levels; according to this post, my symptoms should have worsened, yet it went exactly as I had envisioned it: I am less depressed than I used to be and I sleep better ever since taking tryptophan every night before bed.

What am I supposed to think? This is all very confusing to me.

I will heed your warnings and stop taking L-tryptophan from now on.

So, last night I went ahead and bought every supplement I mentioned in the OP except for progesterone. I might buy that one at a later date after I am a bit more educated in the subject. I'll go ahead and buy some calcium and BCAA as well.

I'm aware of PUFAs being bad; the blog that I used to read (Anabolic Men) mentioned that saturated fat and MUFAs were the good stuff (i.e. butter, olive oil, coconut oil, etc.), and that PUFAs / trans-fats are garbage. I eat many eggs as I am aware of cholesterol being the building block of testosterone. I try to eat fruits and veggies in adequate amounts. I guess I should up my calorie count though. Maybe I should bring milk and whey back into my routine.

About milk: I was wondering whether or not that didn't contribute to giving me the gyno that I'm trying to get rid of. I had a "bulking" stage where I drank a liter of milk per day with added whey, and I remember reading somewhere that milk is thought to be oestrogenic (is this wrong?); I put two and two together and stopped drinking milk. Then again, my gyno's still here so perhaps it had nothing to do with milk, so I guess I might as well start drinking it again. I have to admit I'm pretty clueless as to how I got these lumps. I also have some suspicions towards the KSM-66 (ashwagandha) that I was taking for a long time, stopped taking that too in case it was the culprit. There was also a time when I took some MK-677 (ibutamoren); I know, that was dumb of me. I stopped taking it when I learned that growth hormone worsens gyno. Although it likely worsened it, I don't know whether or not it was the cause of its appearance in the first place. I think they were already puffy before. I hope the pansterone / androsterone / kuinone I ordered will help reduce it and not worsen it. I'm really putting a lot of hope in these products.

About the search of meaning and self-acceptance, I know the intention was good so I thank you, but I agree with Tom K on this. I have read many self-help books and am aware of the always repeated popular adage of "if you have a why you can bear any how," but that's just it. I'm unable to find a "why" and it's not from a lack of trying. My brain can sometimes rationalise ideas such as "I'm so useless that I'm incapable of finding a meaning to my life, why even exist at all if I'm this worthless?" on my darkest days; it's stupid but it can seem perfectly rational to me when I'm depressed. Therefore, if my depression and low energy are making me think like a moron then I'd better make taking care of it a number one priority, shouldn't I? In my point of view, fixing what I perceive to be flawed hormones as the cause to my issues is a win-win: either the healthy balance of hormones will help me find a "why" thanks to a more positive outlook which will take me on an exponential growth in the quality of my life, or either I will still have no idea why I'm on this planet but at least I will be in a desirable emotional state and not care about it too much.

Thanks again for your replies. I'll go ahead and study Ray Peat's stuff now.