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How To Thicken Dermis? Crows Feet

Discussion in 'Skin' started by amaranthine, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    Any ideas on how to specifically target the dermis of the face? I've noticed an increase in wrinkles on movement around the eyes (crows feet) and thinning of skin on the bridge of my nose, I know fillers are an option but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas.

    I saw Peat's pregnenolone before/after pics but that seems to me to be more of a tightening of saggy skin, plus pregnenolone didn't work for me lol. I think it's more of a thinning/fat loss which causes my crows feet. Red light hasn't made a noticeable difference.

    I've noticed people who age really well and don't wrinkle have plump looking thick skin all over the face.
     
  2. x-ray peat

    x-ray peat Member

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    Have you looked into red light therapy?
     
  3. Arnold Grape

    Arnold Grape Member

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    I would try progesterone and eliminate any and all PUFA from your diet, and attempt to increase cellular respiration with things like sugar, aspirin, and copious b vitamins. Additionally, I would strive to reduce stress in life and get outside more often than not. -2c
     
  4. OP
    amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    @x-ray peat I have a few of the red light man devices and used them frequently with no noticeable difference. I haven't in a while though, so maybe I'll try again. Maybe there's something regarding certain wavelengths or something I've overlooked.

    @Arnold Grape thanks :): sound advice, progesterone is on my next to try list, maybe I'll try some b vits too.
     
  5. 2thecloudsabove

    2thecloudsabove Member

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    I would say, first avoid uv light in the face.

    Red light, exposure to 630-670nm wavelenght ensuring doses of 80-100J/cm2, every other day, or at least 3 times/week.
    Also there are some studies showing improvements with hydrolized collagen type 2 standarized for a % of hyaluronic acid content.

    Those may be fine to add for general health, but don't expect specific clear results for skin on dermal thickness improvement, which is what the OP is asking for. In fact, eliminating all pufa is dead wrong since some omega6s are vital for maintaining proper dermal structure and this is fact. Thats why its important minimize UVA exposure to avoid oxidation. Eating plenty of sugar is one of the worst advices if you care for skin looks; proper diet and energy intake from varied healthy food, unprocessed starches fruits and vegetables and staying hydrated IS GOOD FOR SKIN, period. Stating eat (plain) "sugar", repeating it all over and over again like a parrot, leads to nowhere, IMHO.
     
  6. Arnold Grape

    Arnold Grape Member

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    Ime - Progesterone will rapidly benefit skin health. I also agree w/ you about collagen. Red light could screw with the skin if applied to the face. (Agreed.) Sugar might be an ambiguous term here, but this rpf
     
  7. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    You getting enough poison
    Potassium
     
  8. OP
    amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    Thanks for the specific wavelength & dosage! Do you happen to have a link to those studies you mentioned (or any others)? I'm interested to read more on the subject.

    @Joeyd poison?
    Potassium, yeah
     
  9. x-ray peat

    x-ray peat Member

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    overview of research
    http://valtsus.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-therapeutic-effects-of-red-and-near.html
    comprehensive summary of research: download then look under Skin- Rejuvenation
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3VSCJjiVO4XI0tIR0rbMBj08/edit#gid=0

    The dosages range from 4-120 j/cm2. Based on recommendations from Dr Hamblin of Harvard I try to keep the dosage at around 10 j/cm2 for skin and 20-40 j/cm2 for deeper tissue. He also suggests using a power density of around 20-40 mW/cm^2. This means you have to figure out the right distance to keep the light at so it hits your skin with the proper irradiance.


    If you start feeling a druggy feeling you are doing it for too long.
     
  10. OP
    amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    @x-ray peat thanks a lot for that, I appreciate it a lot :):
     
  11. x-ray peat

    x-ray peat Member

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    you're welcome. :)
     
  12. 2thecloudsabove

    2thecloudsabove Member

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  13. sunflower1

    sunflower1 Member

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    Those may be fine to add for general health, but don't expect specific clear results for skin on dermal thickness improvement, which is what the OP is asking for. In fact, eliminating all pufa is dead wrong since some omega6s are vital for maintaining proper dermal structure and this is fact. Thats why its important minimize UVA exposure to avoid oxidation. Eating plenty of sugar is one of the worst advices if you care for skin looks; proper diet and energy intake from varied healthy food, unprocessed starches fruits and vegetables and staying hydrated IS GOOD FOR SKIN, period. Stating eat (plain) "sugar", repeating it all over and over again like a parrot, leads to nowhere, IMHO.[/QUOTE]

    What omega 6's specifically ?
     
  14. 2thecloudsabove

    2thecloudsabove Member

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    Linoleic acid as the main precursor for the rest of them (if your enzymatic pathways are OK)

    The epidermis itself is organized into layers with distinct cell types and lipid composition . In the lower layers of the epidermis, keratinocytes divide, differentiate, and are metabolically active. Here, EFAs are incorporated into epidermal phospholipids in the plasma membranes of keratinocytes and membranous organelles. The stratum corneum (SC), the uppermost layer of the epidermis, is comprised of terminally differentiated keratinocytes, called corneocytes, encased in a protein and lipid matrix.

    Linoleic acid (LA), the most abundant PUFA present in the epidermis, is selectively inserted into two lipid compounds in the SC: acylglucosylceramide and acylceramide. Ceramides are a special type of lipid known as a sphingolipid, consisting of a sphingosine backbone with fatty acidattachments; ceramides comprise 40 to 50% of the lipids in the SC.

    Wertz PW. Epidermal lipids. Semin Dermatol. 1992;11:106-113.


    In a series of studies beginning in 1929, George and Mildred Burr determined the essentiality of certain fatty acids by feeding rats diets entirely devoid of fat (1, 2). Fat-deprived rats developed visible skin abnormalities, increased water loss across their skin (also referred to as transepidermal water loss (TEWL)), stunted growth, and impaired reproduction. By systematically introducing oils with defined fatty acid combinations in rescue diets, it was determined that oils rich in certain polyunsaturated fatty acids (corn oil, linseed oil) could completely reverse the skin defects in the deficient animals, while oils containing only saturated fatty acids (coconut oil, butter) were ineffectual.

    1. Burr GO, Burr MM. A new deficiency disease produced by the rigid exclusion of fat from the diet. J Biol Chem. 1929;82:345-367.
    2. Burr GO, Burr MM. On the nature and role of the fatty acids essential in nutrition. J Biol Chem. 1930;86:587-621.
     
  15. Ras

    Ras Member

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    I have read that aging increases elastase, which increases wrinkling of the skin. White tea and some essential oils have been found to inhibit elastase.
     
  16. x-ray peat

    x-ray peat Member

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    Have a look at the research. One of the primary and clinically proven uses of red light therapy is skin rejuvenation and wrinkle reduction.
     
  17. danishispsychic

    danishispsychic Member

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    Retin- A will do it
     
  18. smith

    smith Member

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    There are a ton of anecdotes i've read on a few forums of Retin-A significantly *decreasing* dermal thickness and disappearing subcutaneous fat, in other words turning a plump and healthy face into a gaunt and hollow one... Which is why I have no personal experience with it nor intend to any time soon. It reduces wrinkles by thinning the skin to the level of the wrinkle, rather than buffing out wrinkles themselves. But don't mind me i'm just parroting

    Squak squak
     
  19. Lyall

    Lyall Member

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    Androgens also improve the skin youthfulness from what I’ve read.
     
  20. SQu

    SQu Member

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    I have that thicker skin you mention which is slow to age. Low carbing made it dull and lifeless, and it started to develop a gaunt fold through the cheeks. Peating has brightened it and given it back its glow and it looks younger. I can't say which aspect of peating ... There are so many possibilities, but when I compare results with others it seems to me that dieting and over exercising thins, wrinkles and dulls the fastest. In other words, the stress. Everything you can do against stress I think would help.
     
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