How to help morbidly obese person without screwing their metabolism

[looking2grow96]

My best friend has been obese since I've known him (since I was 5. We're both now 25). He's always been a large man, has had "man boobs" since puberty (hormonal problem maybe?). He recently confided in me how unhappy he is, and how unhappy he's always been because of his size. Hearing this broke my ******* heart. He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism. For reference, he's 280 lbs at 5'8", so he's got quite a bit of poundage to lose.. Any one got any resources to read/ advice? Ty in advance.

 

[Nebula]

Personally I got very good results with the high carb, very low fat and high gelatin method of fat loss. Similar to Walter Kempner’s Rice Diet, but including lots of gelatin, some shrimp and oysters for very low fat source of protein and minerals. Along with daily walking. For several months it might be safe to do under 10 grams of fat per day, while eating rice and fruit to appetite even well above 2000 calories. I got my gelatin mostly from broth made from chicken paws simmered for 12 hours. I mostly drank it as a tea with fresh ginger and honey. I discarded the fat layer after the gelatin cooled and gelled. About a half pound worth of chicken paws a day which I concentrated in a quart jar. I would eat steamed shrimp or beef heart, and vegetables with my rice. This diet melts fat off me and and removes all inflammation. It feels like I’m taking several aspirin when I’m not and puts me in a great mood. I probably should have added eggshell calcium but I wasn’t consistent with it.

I don’t know if this would be appropriate for your friend, but thought I’d share what worked well for me. Freshly made gelatin in general is a great addition to any diet. I recently had my dad who was having bad physical and mental health start it up and it’s immediately boasted his mood and deepened his sleep.

This is a long term method. He may notice fat loss in the first month, but it will take a year to lose large amounts with the benefit of improving metabolism long term. Supplementing thyroid and vitamin D may be appropriate at some point too.

 

[tankasnowgod]

My best friend has been obese since I've known him (since I was 5. We're both now 25). He's always been a large man, has had "man boobs" since puberty (hormonal problem maybe?). He recently confided in me how unhappy he is, and how unhappy he's always been because of his size. Hearing this broke my ******* heart. He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism. For reference, he's 280 lbs at 5'8", so he's got quite a bit of poundage to lose.. Any one got any resources to read/ advice? Ty in advance.

This study on testosterone therapy showed dramatic, long term weight loss-

Testosterone Therapy Causes Long Term (10 year) Drastic Weight Loss (23kg) in Obese, Overweight Men.

A really impressive study, both for how long it went, and the results it obtained. It followed men taking Testosterone Therapy injections (1000mg once every twelve weeks), and men who were offered this therapy, but declined. The results are not only "drastic," as the following article says...

raypeatforum.com

I do think there are other things that can be used as interventions, such as the fat soluble vitamins, lowering PUFA, adjusts fats/carbs, amino acid ratios, higher protein, altitude, exercise, and such, but I think this study clearly demonstrates that hormones are the biggest key to any long term change.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Bone broth fast (homemade broth!), daily carrot salad, maybe some fruit each evening. This can be continued for a while.

Unpopular opinion, maybe, but this way of eating should be less stressful for your friend than his current state. Results should be fast enough to reduce any learned helplessness/hopelessness he may have about his appearance.

EDIT: Oh and another thing, maybe more important. If your friend doesn't have any joint problems, he might consider walking or hiking 5+ miles a day.

 

[Perry Staltic]

He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism. For reference, he's 280 lbs at 5'8", so he's got quite a bit of poundage to lose.

That's not that much to lose. There's a guy at the pool who's trying lose weight. Has gone from over 600 lbs to around 500 lbs last I talked with him. He has my utmost respect and admiration. Just help your friend with an easy, gradual routine that will become a habit. Swimming is a great help if he has that opportunity because it's easy on the body, especially with weight. Whatever he does, don't push it too hard, Start with something easy and make it a habit. As he gets conditioned to whatever he does he can increase it.

 

[OccamzRazer]

He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism.

One more thing. Don't worry about the metabolic 'hit' that comes with losing weight. Metabolism can be restored to higher and higher levels over time once leptin sensitivity has been regained and a healthier weight has been reached.

(I was once anorexic and super hypometabolic...but these days I eat 5000 cals/day and still stay under 10% BF, even when laying around all day.)

The pathway towards this healthy metabolism, however, is not linear. You can't jump straight from current point A to desired point B...you have to correct certain things first.

Look into reverse dieting for more info on how this is done. Basically, you diet down to goal weight, even if it takes getting down to a thousand or two thousand calories a day.

Next, you slowly (slowly!) raise cals back up. During this 'refeeding' period calories will be apportioned in a totally different way than they were before. Some form of strength training is also ideal during refeeding, as it makes muscle cells insulin sensitive and fat cells insulin resistant. Calisthenics, lifting, throwing heavy stuff...whatever he enjoys, really.

This technique has been used successfully by drug-free bodybuilders for decades. As mentioned earlier, it also worked perfectly for me!

Your friend might also want to work on his mindset, and try to love and respect his body even now - before any changes are seen.

Anyways, many blessings and best of luck!

 

[tankasnowgod]

One more thing. Don't worry about the metabolic 'hit' that comes with losing weight. Metabolism can be restored to higher and higher levels over time once leptin sensitivity has been regained and a healthier weight has been reached.

(I was once anorexic and super hypometabolic...but these days I eat 5000 cals/day and still stay under 10% BF, even when laying around all day.)

Anorexia is basically the opposite problem from having too much weight, so I don't think your experience would necessarily be applicable here. For example, you may have had an advantage of having very little stored PUFA, and the subject discussed in the OP may have lots to get rid of.

The pathway towards this healthy metabolism, however, is not linear. You can't jump straight from current point A to desired point B...you have to correct certain things first.

Look into reverse dieting for more info on how this is done. Basically, you diet down to goal weight, even if it takes getting down to a thousand or two thousand calories a day.

Next, you slowly (slowly!) raise cals back up. During this 'refeeding' period calories will be apportioned in a totally different way than they were before. Some form of strength training is also ideal during refeeding, as it makes muscle cells insulin sensitive and fat cells insulin resistant. Calisthenics, lifting, throwing heavy stuff...whatever he enjoys, really.

I also don't think you can compare bodybuilders to someone who has been obese pretty much all his life. After all, do you think this approach would work for someone with Cushings?

Basically, you are describing the approach used on "The Biggest Loser." Create a dramatic caloric deficit by any means necessary. It does result in short term, rapid weight loss (even though the drops on the show are exaggerated from week to week, there are massive drops in weight in a very short time period). But long term, most contestants end up worse off than before the show began.

This technique has been used successfully by drug-free bodybuilders for decades. As mentioned earlier, it also worked perfectly for me!

How, exactly, did it work for you? You said you were anorexic, which would imply you didn't have to lose weight, you had to gain weight. Unless you went from, say, 280 pounds to 120 and then back up 170 (which you then maintained for several years), I don't think your experience is applicable.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Anorexia is basically the opposite problem from having too much weight, so I don't think your experience would necessarily be applicable here. For example, you may have had an advantage of having very little stored PUFA, and the subject discussed in the OP may have lots to get rid of.

Maybe there are some commonalities here...if OP's friend fasted on bone broth and also ate a little fruit, then he's also depleting PUFA pretty fast.

I also don't think you can compare bodybuilders to someone who has been obese pretty much all his life. After all, do you think this approach would work for someone with Cushings?

Basically, you are describing the approach used on "The Biggest Loser." Create a dramatic caloric deficit by any means necessary. It does result in short term, rapid weight loss (even though the drops on the show are exaggerated from week to week, there are massive drops in weight in a very short time period). But long term, most contestants end up worse off than before the show began.

No, I don't think it would work for Cushing's, but I think it would work for most adults who have an adaptive metabolic state.

Eh, pretty unlike 'The Biggest Loser" IMO. I mentioned walking as the main form of exercise - no HIIT or brutal workouts needed. And surely contestants aren't sipping on bone broth throughout their diets.

Plus I doubt many of those contestants implement a gradual 'reverse diet' post-show...which probably explains their rebounds back up to an unhealthy weight.

How, exactly, did it work for you? You said you were anorexic, which would imply you didn't have to lose weight, you had to gain weight. Unless you went from, say, 280 pounds to 120 and then back up 170 (which you then maintained for several years), I don't think your experience is applicable.

I got down to an extremely low body fat eating 1,200 net calories/day, then reverse-dieted back to maintenance cals of 4000-5000.

If this type of thing is possible, then it implies that the metabolic damage done by calorie deprivation is transient and reversible - and therefore maybe worth it in certain contexts, like OP's friend's situation.

I understand there are big differences between my experience and OP's friend's.

But I think there might also be a concept worth applying: don't be afraid of calorie restriction, if it accomplishes a short-term goal AND of if it is followed by a reverse diet that restores thyroid function.

One of the beauties of being low bodyfat is that you can actually get away with eating more, since your muscles will be relatively more insulin-sensitive than other tissues. In my opinion OP's friend would do well to get into this leaner, more sensitive state quickly!

 

[tankasnowgod]

I got down to an extremely low body fat eating 1,200 net calories/day, then reverse-dieted back to maintenance cals of 4000-5000.

If this type of thing is possible, then it implies that the metabolic damage done by calorie deprivation is transient and reversible - and therefore maybe worth it in certain contexts, like OP's friend's situation.

I understand there are big differences between my experience and OP's friend's.

But I think there might also be a concept worth applying: don't be afraid of calorie restriction, if it accomplishes a short-term goal AND of if it is followed by a reverse diet that restores thyroid function.

One of the beauties of being low bodyfat is that you can actually get away with eating more, since your muscles will be relatively more insulin-sensitive than other tissues. In my opinion OP's friend would do well to get into this leaner, more sensitive state quickly!

While I'd agree with the concept of metabolic damage (and really, all damage) being reversible, I don't think just "restricting calories" is going to get at whatever the core of the problem is here. According to the OP, his friend has been obese since the age of 5, and nothing has changed in 20 years (except that it's apparently gotten worse). What, you think his 8 or 13 year old self didn't track calories strictly enough on cronometer?

Also, seeing as he has been "obese" since the age of 5, I think that indicates that he is already "metabolically damaged." While he could reverse this, I don't think the very first step should be an attempt to damage his metabolism even more. That just doesn't make sense. Why compound a problem before trying to rectify it?

While a calorie deficit may be useful at some point, I don't think you can compare your experience with anorexia to someone who experienced obesity pretty much his entire life, starting in early childhood. It sounds like a much more serious (or at least radically different) issue. At the very least, he should get some sort of metabolic panel (measuring things like testosterone, thyroid prolactin, cortisol) rather than just arbitrarily slashing calories.

 

[OccamzRazer]

While I'd agree with the concept of metabolic damage (and really, all damage) being reversible, I don't think just "restricting calories" is going to get at whatever the core of the problem is here. According to the OP, his friend has been obese since the age of 5, and nothing has changed in 20 years (except that it's apparently gotten worse). What, you think his 8 or 13 year old self didn't track calories strictly enough on cronometer?

While a calorie deficit may be useful at some point, I don't think you can compare your experience with anorexia to someone who experienced obesity pretty much his entire life, starting in early childhood. It sounds like a much more serious (or at least radically different) issue. At the very least, he should get some sort of metabolic panel (measuring things like testosterone, thyroid prolactin, cortisol) rather than just arbitrarily slashing calories.

I'm guessing OP's friend became obese due to some combination of unnatural levels of PUFA intake, unnatural exposure to environmental toxins, an unnatural lack of movement, unnatural health problems present in his parents, etc.

Regardless of the causes of OP's friend's obesity, I bet its vicious cycle can be reversed through a short-term calorie deficit involving 'Peaty' foods.

And fair enough...I agree that this guy would do well to get some testing done!

In the meantime, tho, why not limit calories and mostly just drink bone broth? This should reduce weight and improve insulin/leptin sensitivity. Meanwhile doing lots of walking in an enjoyable setting could boost T and reduce cortisol. I doubt such a protocol would be harmful.

Right now energy is going to the 'wrong' places (i.e. excess fat tissue), so no point in continuing to take in excess energy until hormonal stuff is optimized.

 

[OccamzRazer]

@tankasnowgod

On a related note, the idea of doing bone broth + some fruit seems to go nicely with the methionine-depletion stuff you mentioned recently! Tho I'm not sure it would work well enough in the absence of calorie restriction...or maybe that would just be a very slow process.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'm guessing OP's friend became obese due to some combination of unnatural levels of PUFA intake, unnatural exposure to environmental toxins, an unnatural lack of movement, unnatural health problems present in his parents, etc.

Regardless of the causes of OP's friend's obesity, I bet its vicious cycle can be reversed through a short-term calorie deficit involving 'Peaty' foods.

And fair enough...I agree that this guy would do well to get some testing done!

In the meantime, tho, why not limit calories and mostly just drink bone broth? This should reduce weight and improve insulin/leptin sensitivity. Meanwhile doing lots of walking in an enjoyable setting could boost T and reduce cortisol. I doubt such a protocol would be harmful.

Right now energy is going to the 'wrong' places (i.e. excess fat tissue), so no point in continuing to take in excess energy until hormonal stuff is optimized.

Fair enough.

If it's a 20 year problem, it's obviously going to take some time to reverse. Since it's been this long, I would probably disagree with jumping into anything, thinking getting some baseline info would probably be a better move. Maybe track foods in cronometer for a week or two (without trying to change anything), and get some baseline tests. Then, formulate a plan, targeting things like protein, fat, carbs, and what have you, and what sort of supplements and/or drugs (dopamine agonists? thyroid? testosterone?) you want to add.

I'd agree that bone broth (or gelatin/collagen) and fruit would probably be good keep in any sort of diet.

 

[aliml]

The Croissant Diet Specification - Fire In A Bottle

The specification of The Croissant Diet is a living document. I plan to update it regularly as we learn. The central tenet of the croissant diet is that a primary regulator of whole body energy flux is the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat. The secondary tenet is that starch is a great...

fireinabottle.net

 

[area51puy]

I would also clean the gut out,antibiotics carrot salad probably has gut dysbiosis causing elevated serotonin.

Add white button mushrooms good for gut health and being heavier most likely has a lot of stored estrogen so could help with that.

Adding a lot gelatin mentioned above. I started with about a week ago with gelatin and glycine and dropped about 5 pounds.
Adding thyroid.

Teach him about pufa and what to look for on labels. 99 percent of people don’t understand what it is don’t know what to look for.

 

[Vinny]

My best friend has been obese since I've known him (since I was 5. We're both now 25). He's always been a large man, has had "man boobs" since puberty (hormonal problem maybe?). He recently confided in me how unhappy he is, and how unhappy he's always been because of his size. Hearing this broke my ******* heart. He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism. For reference, he's 280 lbs at 5'8", so he's got quite a bit of poundage to lose.. Any one got any resources to read/ advice? Ty in advance.

You know what I wonder in this case, dude? I wonder, why and how you act on behalf of someone?
You said that he asked you for help..... Ok, but you admit that YOU DON`T KNOW, right? So, if you don`t know, why you didn`t give him a straightforward answer?
Imagine this: You read some advice here, you took it as granted, gave it to your BEST friend which followed it, and it turned out that it screwed its health to a point of no return. How would you feel then?
Don`t you think that his health is HIS responsibility? Why don`t just give him the forum link and, IF he wants, did his own research?

 

[sunny]

Perhaps a Dutch Test to see what is happening with Hormones? And haiduts toenail analysis.

 

[Mauritio]

My best friend has been obese since I've known him (since I was 5. We're both now 25). He's always been a large man, has had "man boobs" since puberty (hormonal problem maybe?). He recently confided in me how unhappy he is, and how unhappy he's always been because of his size. Hearing this broke my ******* heart. He's asked for my help in losing weight, but the problem is, I don't know any way to lose a humongous amount of weight without crapping out your metabolism. For reference, he's 280 lbs at 5'8", so he's got quite a bit of poundage to lose.. Any one got any resources to read/ advice? Ty in advance.

- Uncoupling the metabolism (aspirin, T3, Dnp if very careful)
- all milk diet for some time
- high carb , low fat

 

[Source Code]

I think allot of fat people are really blocked up and bloated, a few days or even a week of a tea spoon of magnesium oxide every day followed by lots of water will help get rid of this blockage. I recommend this before embarking on a diet. A good tip for losing weight is writing down every meal you eat. Just doing that will help lose weight because people become more conscious of their eating habits and are more inclined to control their portion sizes. Also take measurements of body parts like belly ect and write them down so he can track progress. But yeah these other diet suggestions seem good.

 

[bogbody]

high carb low fat diet consisting of peat friendly foods that he tolerates, moderate calorie defecit, thyroid supplement, at least 100g of protein a day, regular walking, maybe some moderate resistance training a few times a week. vitamin e to protect against pufa release from tissues during fat loss.

 

[Milk Consumer]

I think he should just worry about loosing the weight first. Count calories, stay in deficit. When he is at a healthy weight start to fix metabolism.
Worrying about ideal metabolism now might just make him stagnate at his current weight forever