How Do I Convince My Family Covid Is BS?

[MetabolicTrash]

Wouldn't that just be wasted effort at this point? I mean it could be like me telling someone that some liver is likely better for you on occasion vs. PUFA snacks, but they can always just turn around and say, "But I like PUFA snacks better so that is what I choose to eat." Unfortunately it becomes pointless to pick a side because all sides can be right and wrong -- it just might depend on the circumstances of life that drive one or veer one toward 'X' more than 'Y' and so on, either cautiously or out of whatever desires/needs one has.

For example, if PUFA is so bad then why would some seek it out and consume it? Ignorance? Who says? Some even here stand by some PUFA support; are more anti-thyroid use/hormones/etc.; and some members also support mask mandates and vaccines too I think. Why even argue? I have had these discussions before and it is just pointless most of the time.

Even someone like Ray or Ling could not convince some people against some mainstream concepts regarding science and health and so on because some will always refuse to believe differently for various reasons -- and forcing one to accept something is also pointless too.

Plus it would possibly be easier to convince a stranger of something than your own family, however ironic.

 

[Frankdee20]

I’m on team COVID is a scam, but it doesn’t matter.... I can’t frequent stores and places without wearing that stupid mask.... life will be this way for a long time .... politicians are power hungry idiots

 

[Giraffe]

I'm extremely annoyed that they believe everything the mainstream media is saying about that "virus".

They are hoping for the vaccine to come ASAP, are pro masks, believe in the test, believe that hospitals are full.

I've done so much reading these past 6 months that I firmly believe this whole situation is a hoax.

I didn't go myself to hospitals to check that they are empty, so I'm in a dead end when I argue with them.

How can I convince them with a few compelling bullet points that this whole situation is a plot?

You can only try to seed doubt, a little bit at a time.

• What makes you think that the vaccine will change anything? Haven't you heard xy (e.g. head of CDC) saying that we need to carry on with masks and lockdowns for years? The vaccine makers say they don't know if the vaccine prevents transmission / it's not 100% protection / they don't know how long protection lasts.
  
• Do you know what they mean when say tell us that we have to expect "moderate" side effects from the vaccine? (5 = death, 4 = live threatening and/or permanently disabled, 3 = "moderate" = feeling very sick)
• Have you heard of disease enhancement from coronavirus vaccines?
  
• Aren't the hospitals full each winter with flu patients? Don't they complain for years that there is not enough staff?
• What's the average age of those who have died from or with covid?
  
• Do you know what a PCR-test is doing? What is it measuring?
• How many tests are they doing each week? What is a false positive?
  
• How many people are normally dying per day? Per week?
• Regarding masks... How to make sure the mask is not doing more harm than good? Once it is moist the mask becomes a petri dish for fungi and bacteria and you breath this stuff in.

 

[Lejeboca]

Thanks, @Giraffe , this is a helpful list. I will try it with someone who already started to step on the 'other side'.
But for trusting authority die-hards, this is a lost cause, I believe, alas. I've failed miserably, as @Lollipop2 and @ScurveDream mentioned, with my family.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"
-- Redemption Song, Bob Marley (a.k.a. ⁣World Alliance Freedom Song by Mick & Dolores and No 1 for Christmas this year

 

[GAF]

Only a few buffalo don't stampede off the cliff together.

Being part of the herd is the only important fact to a member of the herd.

A Fact, such as there is a 1000 foot dropoff ahead, is not relevant.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Your family might be saying the same thing about you. They may be saying, "how can we convince @TheBeard that the virus is not a hoax".

That's easy! They just have to point me to the Electron Micrographs of the purified and isolated virus! And then point me to a paper that satisfies Koch's Postulates! And then a group independent from them that verified their findings! And then point to an increase in all cause mortality, preferably before any Lockdown Experiments started, and in the 10s of millions to go along with 20-65 million overall deaths foretold in the Great Pandemic Prophecy.

Or, at the very least, the video tape that shows the virus jumping from a bat to a human at that Wuhan market.

 

[Regina]

The wetiko mind virus
Covid-19 is a a Symbol of a Much Deeper Infection - The Wetiko Mind-Virus - New Agora Newspaper

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Dr. Roger Hodkinson CEO & Medical Director – MA, MB, FRCPC, FCAP

Have them listen to this 5 minute repudiation.

 

[Encai]

Your family might be saying the same thing about you. They may be saying, "how can we convince @TheBeard that the virus is not a hoax".

Don't convince them. You might be right but you might be wrong. Have a friendly exchange of ideas and share your beliefs but don't try to convince them.

Absolute truth is elusive to human beings so none of should pretend that we know the absolute truth.

Totally agree!

Saying everything authorities tell us is wrong is, for me at least, the same as saying everything they say is right. It might be more nuanced.

 

[pepzorpdorp]

I'm extremely annoyed that they believe everything the mainstream media is saying about that "virus".
They are hoping for the vaccine to come ASAP, are pro masks, believe in the test, believe that hospitals are full.

I've done so much reading these past 6 months that I firmly believe this whole situation is a hoax.

I didn't go myself to hospitals to check that they are empty, so I'm in a dead end when I argue with them.

How can I convince them with a few compelling bullet points that this whole situation is a plot?

Why do you think its a hoax?

 

[catan]

I thought for sure people would see by now there’s nothing going on contagion wise and the lockdowns and other measures tyrannical and destructive, but I’m wrong. My friends and family are more convinced than ever covid is deadly. Over the months I have sent info about PCR tests, no isolation of virus, no excess mortality, reports of lockdowns causing more destruction, studies of how masks are harmful etc etc, and they may briefly consider them but go back to believing MSM. They’ve got their toddlers in masks. They want lockdowns. My friend is a lab technician in a big city and he’s busy running covid tests full time and he says many are coming back positive, therefore there’s definitely a second wave (vs not many positives before). I asked how many cycles these tests being run at and he doesn’t know, the machine is set by someone else. Everyone wants the vaccine. Even friends that do not vaccinate their kids believe the whole narrative.

The cognitive dissonance must be too great so I’ve pretty much have accepted most people can’t change their minds until they’re ready to do so.

 

[Ben.]

Dr. Roger Hodkinson CEO & Medical Director – MA, MB, FRCPC, FCAP

Have them listen to this 5 minute repudiation.

Woah ... thanks for posting this. So one of the top guys who's actually selling and making big money of these tests even says that the measures taken by the politics are crazy.

 

[MichaelZurich]

Hey guys. Not wanting to join any arguments, I am from Switzerland, which got hit quite hard by corona. And I do have about a dozen friends that got it, of which 4 are close friends. 3 out of the 4 are still feeling at not more than 90% recovered not making any more progress even 4-6 month after „being sick“. I want to say that all of them were very healthy and very very sportive before it. Smelling didn’t return in 2 out of the 4, even after months. So even if you don‘t belief in Covid, think about what if you were wrong, and you or someone you love does get it, do you really want to continue to live your life with a decreased lung volume or not smelling any food anymore, just because the mask and the other circumstance are a pain? I agree with you, I am also afraid of the vaccines and will wait until it proves to be safe. But in my opinion, the trade off is to high to fight something, that could potentially harm you irreversible, in the end it is your physical health you are putting in the game. Kind Regards from Zurich

 

[boris]

Hey guys. Not wanting to join any arguments, I am from Switzerland, which got hit quite hard by corona. And I do have about a dozen friends that got it, of which 4 are close friends. 3 out of the 4 are still feeling at not more than 90% recovered not making any more progress even 4-6 month after „being sick“. I want to say that all of them were very healthy and very very sportive before it. Smelling didn’t return in 2 out of the 4, even after months. So even if you don‘t belief in Covid, think about what if you were wrong, and you or someone you love does get it, do you really want to continue to live your life with a decreased lung volume or not smelling any food anymore, just because the mask and the other circumstance are a pain? I agree with you, I am also afraid of the vaccines and will wait until it proves to be safe. But in my opinion, the trade off is to high to fight something, that could potentially harm you irreversible, in the end it is your physical health you are putting in the game. Kind Regards from Zurich

The "very very sportive" people are usually in a pretty bad internal health state from their excessive exercise. Think about it. Would they get infected in the first place, if they were blooming with health? Excessive exercise is stressful and stress destroys your thymus gland for example, among many other mechanisms that would support an infection. A healthy organism eliminates the pathogen before it can infect your cells, that's why young people are mostly unaffected by it. The only young people who died from COVID were long distance runners and the like. Regarding being sick for months as a COVID specific trait, again nothing new but a media induced psychosis:

Post-viral syndrome: Symptoms, causes, and treatment
Almost any viral infection can trigger post-viral syndrome, including:

• common cold
• flu
• pneumonia
• Epstein-Barr virus
• herpes
• HIV

Post-viral syndrome may be more prevalent or apparent in people with weakened immune systems.

https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/our-services...service/post-viral-fatigue-a-guide-management

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Woah ... thanks for posting this. So one of the top guys who's actually selling and making big money of these tests even says that the measures taken by the politics are crazy.

His expressed sentiments were much stronger than that.

"The bottom line is this: There is utterly unfounded public hysteria driven by the media and politicians. It's outrageous. This is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done to contain this virus other than protecting more vulnerable people. It should be thought of as nothing more than a bad flu season. This is not ebola, not SARS. It's politics playing medicine, and that's a very dangerous game.

There is no action of any kind needed other than what happened last year when we felt unwell. We stayed home, we ate chicken noodle soup, we didn't visit granny, and we decided when we returned to work. We didn't need anyone to tell us.

Masks are utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling. They're not even worn effectively most of the time. It's ridiculous seeing these unfortunate uneducated people walking around like lemmings obeying without any knowledge base to put the mask on their face.

Social distancing is also useless because covid is spread by aerosols which travel 30 meters or so before landing.

And closures have had such terrible unintended consequences. Everywhere should be open tomorrow as was stated in the Great Barrington Declaration that I circulated prior to this meeting.

And a word on testing. I do want to emphasize that I'm in the business of testing for covid. Positive test results do not mean a clinical infection. It's simply driving public hysteria and all testing should stop unless you're presenting to hospital with some respiratory problem.

All that should be done is to protect the vulnerable and to give them all in the nursing homes that are under your control 3000-5000IU of vitamin D every day, which has been shown to radically reduce the likelihood of infection.

And I would remind you all, using the provinces own statistics, the risk of death under 65 is 1 in 300,000. You've got to get a grip on this. The scale of the response that you're undertaking with no evidence for it is utterly ridiculous given the consequences of acting in the way you are proposing. All kinds of suicides, business closures, etc, it's simply outrageous.

It's just another bad flu. And you've got to get your minds around that. Let people make their own decisions. You should be totally out of the business of medicine. You've been led down the garden path by the chief medical officer of this province. I'm absolutely outraged that this has reached this level. It should all stop tomorrow.

Thank you very much."

 

[MichaelZurich]

The "very very sportive" people are usually in a pretty bad internal health state from their excessive exercise. Think about it. Would they get infected in the first place, if they were blooming with health? Excessive exercise is stressful and stress destroys your thymus gland for example, among many other mechanisms that would support an infection. A healthy organism eliminates the pathogen before it can infect your cells, that's why young people are mostly unaffected by it. The only young people who died from COVID were long distance runners and the like. Regarding being sick for months as a COVID specific trait, again nothing new but a media induced psychosis:

Post-viral syndrome: Symptoms, causes, and treatment
Almost any viral infection can trigger post-viral syndrome, including:

• common cold
• flu
• pneumonia
• Epstein-Barr virus
• herpes
• HIV

Post-viral syndrome may be more prevalent or apparent in people with weakened immune systems.

https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/our-services...service/post-viral-fatigue-a-guide-management

We have all had the flu and a common cold, but I don‘t know a single person that had persisting problems after that, there certainly are people, but I don‘t know any. But I do know 4 of which 3 do have persisting problems after Covid (aged 28 to 73). So it remains free to you, to choose whether you want to try to become the test-rabbit that afterwards can convince your fellows that you might were wrong (or not), but I think there is nothing wrong to let others, that obviously are more concerned about their health to decide for their own.

Oh, and I am pretty sure you would be more concerned if you knew you could get epstein barr, HIV or pneumonia over the air, right? So until we don‘t know anything about long term damage, I think you are right, that we should see it as dangerous as these conditions.

 

[Zpol]

I didn't go myself to hospitals to check that they are empty, so I'm in a dead end when I argue with them.

The hospitals are not empty, they are overflowing because elderly and infirm people who are admitted for any reason are kept there indefinitely because the care homes and assisted living facilities refuse to take them back to recover. So they have nowhere to go. The hospitals can't just wheel them out to the street and leave them there so they remain in the hospital beds using up the hospital resources.
Plus, anyone admitted to the hospital for any reason is getting regular PCR tests potentially giving them false positives, which would further lengthen their hospital stay. With all these people taking up beds at hospitals, and using up the staff's time and energy, it's creating a massive public health burden.
Add to that the fact that if a hospital staff member (nurses, janitorial, food prep etc.) gets the slightest sniffle they can't come to work for 14 days.

 

[boris]

So it remains free to you, to choose whether you want to try to become the test-rabbit that afterwards can convince your fellows that you might were wrong (or not)

Wrong about what exactly? It's not clear to me from your writing. I was merely stating the fact that your seemingly healthy friends must have pretty compromised immune systems to get such a severe infection from coronaviruses, which we already know are harmless to healthy individuals and that long term illness sysmptoms aren't COVID specific.

CNN: Covid-19 Death Rate Is Under 1% For Everyone But People Over 70

COVID-19: Over 80% of young people may show no symptoms

 

[boris]

@TheBeard I just rewatched the Ioannidis video that I posted. I didn't remember he was pro vaxx so that might not be the best one to show. The one with Wittkowski is better. It got cencored by youtube but there is a reupload:


Timestamps:

Spoiler

"Perspectives on the Pandemic Episode 5: In this highly-charged follow-up interview, Knut Wittkowski says his initial claim has been vindicated: The lockdowns - always a dubious proposition for a respiratory virus - came too late in the U.S. and elsewhere, and were therefore even worse than useless. By turns emotional and darkly comic, Wittkowski ranges across all the essential topics of the crisis, and gives answers you are unlikely to see in the major media. Not to be missed.

A transcript of this interview can be found https://www.thepressandthepublic.com/...

And, read Wittkowski's study here: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.03.28.20..."

00:15-Wittkowski explains his background
02:17-Reaching herd immunity in New York City
03:48-Does Wittkowski have a political agenda in his science?
04:44-How has Wittkowski’s assessment of the epidemic panned out?
07:37-Were peak infection rates reached before lockdown in some countries?
10:38-The state of New York City hospitals
12:01-Are we past peak COVID-19 infections?
14:00-On contact tracing
14:40-Were early calculations an honest mistake?
19:44-Did public officials forget that lockdown would cause more deaths?
22:20-Does COVID-19 self-limit?
25:41-Approaching herd immunity
28:43-Could we have reached herd immunity sooner?
33:35-Is sunshine and being outdoors really a way to combat COVID-19?
35:22-Bill Gates’ role in the pandemic
38:20-Debating the necessity of lockdowns to combat COVID-19
39:46-On the latest antibody tests and studies to have come out
44:16-COVID-19 is not fundamentally different than any other flu
47:43-Who is benefitting from the pandemic?
50:40-What’s happening in Sweden
52:07-Are we heading for a second spike of COVID-19?
56:20-Investigating the death toll
57:40-Is the pandemic fabricated?
59:43-The science behind our approach
01:02:06-What do we do now?

I think when asked about it, he also says that he would get a vaccine if it's safe, but he doesn't go on and on about it's importance.

Regarding the performance of the vaccine:

• COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Essentially Pointless
  
• China's SinoVac Vaccine Trial For COVID-19 Halted In Brazil
  
• Pre-existing COVID-19 Immunity In 20%-50% Of People - Better Than Vaccines?
  
• Another COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Halted Due To Serious Side Effects
  
• NIH 'very Concerned' About Serious Side Effect In Coronavirus Vaccine
  
• Eli Lilly's Trial For COVID-19 Antibody Treatment Halted For Safety Reasons
  
• Pfizer "90% Effective" Doesn't Mean It's Effective

 

[Kram]

I was merely stating the fact that your seemingly healthy friends must have pretty compromised immune systems to get such a severe infection from coronaviruses, which we already know are harmless to healthy individuals and that long term illness sysmptoms aren't COVID specific.

While I generally agree that healthier people probably aren't going to be as impacted by covid (like any other illness), you sure are making a lot of assumptions to fit your personal narrative.

CNN: Covid-19 Death Rate Is Under 1% For Everyone But People Over 70

The issue with covid is that it is incredibly contagious, not just the death rate and symptoms.


So you think all of this data, from all over the world, is completely fabricated? If so, that is some elaborate hoax that millions of people are in on.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections