How Do I Convince My Family Covid Is BS?

[Zpol]

Hey guys. Not wanting to join any arguments, I am from Switzerland, which got hit quite hard by corona. And I do have about a dozen friends that got it, of which 4 are close friends. 3 out of the 4 are still feeling at not more than 90% recovered not making any more progress even 4-6 month after „being sick“. I want to say that all of them were very healthy and very very sportive before it. Smelling didn’t return in 2 out of the 4, even after months. So even if you don‘t belief in Covid, think about what if you were wrong, and you or someone you love does get it, do you really want to continue to live your life with a decreased lung volume or not smelling any food anymore, just because the mask and the other circumstance are a pain? I agree with you, I am also afraid of the vaccines and will wait until it proves to be safe. But in my opinion, the trade off is to high to fight something, that could potentially harm you irreversible, in the end it is your physical health you are putting in the game. Kind Regards from Zurich

I think the problem is that the 'trade off' is not working to prevent people from getting sick and is creating a false sense of security.
-> Masks have not been shown to be effective at reducing the spread. In fact they are more likely to increase infection because touching your face to adjust the mask is about equal to touching a petri dish that is attached to your face. And it's relatively harder to breath in an infectious virus than it is to infect yourself by rubbing your nose or eye with a hand that just touched your dirty mask.
-> Also wearing masks for extended periods force you to keep breathing in what your supposed to be off-gassing thereby causing an additional stress to yourself and weakening your immune system.
-> Use of hand sanitizer is lessening people's exposure to normal dirt and germs which are necessary for properly functioning immune responses, plus contributing to the spread of 'super-bugs'.
-> An example; my Uncle continued going to workout at the local gym, dutifully masking up and sanitizing, as was mandatory at his gym and he made sure his workout friends were following the rules and yet they all got sick. Meanwhile, my Aunt who took care of him while he was sick took Vit D and Zinc, ate homemade chicken broth daily and fruit, and never got sick.
-> Lockdowns/quarantines are doing more harm than good because people are not getting out into fresh air and sunshine as much. My niece had been living in a dorm which was on quarantine, they wouldn't even let them go outside into the courtyard or to get healthy food!
-> The loss of smell is due to zinc deficiency. Coronavirus infections tend to reduce zinc further in already depleted populations, therefore loss of smell is common.
-> Agreed that this particular coronavirus strain is bad, no wants to get it. But, if people don't start focusing on what really works to stop the spread, it's going to keep on going. The public health initiatives should not be masks, hand sanitizer, and lockdowns, they should be getting Vit D checks, getting high nutrient foods to people, clean water, regular soap not sanitizer. Imagine if all the money used to fund the vaccine development went to enhancing people's immune systems instead.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Why do you think its a hoax?

Easy. Because it's never been proven to exist. See my above comment on how you can easily convince me to change my mind.

Also, even accepting the numbers at face value means that more people are going to die this year from Diarrhea than so called "COVID 19," which is simply a rebranding of deaths that would have happened this year anyway.

1.4 Million Covid associated deaths as of this moment - Coronavirus Update (Live): 61,120,943 Cases and 1,433,826 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Looks like that number will end up between "Diabetes" and "Diarrheal Diseases" if you break it out on it's own (since COVID is a common cold virus, if it's anything, it would be part of that 3.91 Million Respiratory Disease number).

 

[boris]

So you think all of this data, from all over the world, is completely fabricated? If so, that is some elaborate hoax that millions of people are in on.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Can't help you if you are unwilling to read what people are posting. The data has been explained here.

[I would actually love for someone to debunk all the conflicting evidence, it would certainly make me sleep better. But so far none of the COVID faithful people here have ever done that.]

 

[boris]

The issue with covid is that it is incredibly contagious, not just the death rate and symptoms.

Why do you believe this years coronavirus is anymore contagious than least years coronaviruses? What are you basing this on?

It's not based on good science. It's an assumption based on the massive amounts of positive testresults. Plenty of evidence why the test is useless is also linked in this thread.

While I generally agree that healthier people probably aren't going to be as impacted by covid (like any other illness), you sure are making a lot of assumptions to fit your personal narrative.

Spoiler

 

[tankasnowgod]

We have all had the flu and a common cold, but I don‘t know a single person that had persisting problems after that, there certainly are people, but I don‘t know any. But I do know 4 of which 3 do have persisting problems after Covid (aged 28 to 73). So it remains free to you, to choose whether you want to try to become the test-rabbit that afterwards can convince your fellows that you might were wrong (or not),

This is another bizarre thought. Just like people got sick with the common cold and also died before COVID was apparently "Discovered" by videotape evidence of it jumping from a bat to person in that Wuhan market, people also got diseases where symptoms lingered for weeks/months/years. Lyme is a prime example, and the initial symptoms can be flu like. Valley Fever is another. Prolly wouldn't be hard to get a Lyme or Valley Fever sufferer to get a positive COVID test (seeing as goats, fruits, and even sterile swabs have come back positive), so this myth of "Long Haul Covid" can survive.

Hell, people think they have "Long Haul Covid" despite NEGATIVE tests-

I'm hesitant to identify myself as a Covid-19 long-hauler - STAT

Longer term symptoms, like a lingering cough, is nothing new. It's just the hype from this year long COVID propaganda campaign about an imaginary virus.

 

[boris]

@MichaelZurich Regarding sportivity and why seemingly healthy people can get struck so hard by an illness. Regular endurance sport causes heart damage as does simply not resting enough after strenous exercise. Even running a single half marathon can cause heart damage.


Exercise Induced Stress – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Ray Peat, PhD: Quotes Relating to Exercise – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
“Elite athletes are generally considered to have “good genes,” and exercise is commonly said to promote good health, so a new orientation is needed to accommodate the fact that “elite” athletes, winter or summer athletes, including participants in the Olympics, have a high incidence of asthma — roughly three times higher than the general population.
It turns out that exercise induces the signs and symptoms of asthma, not only in “asthmatics,” but in normal people too.
Anaerobic exercise (getting out of breath) increases the release of, or activity of, a large variety of inflammatory mediators, beginning with lactic acid and interleukin-6 releases from the exercised muscle itself, and including factors released from various cells in the blood, and hormones including estrogen, prolactin, and sometimes TSH.”

“Exercise increases blood clotting, and so can increase the risk of strokes and heart attacks. Some doctors have been reporting increase incidence of flat feet, varicose veins, and prolapsed uterus among runners. Walking is a better form of exercise.”

“There are now many people who argues that a low metabolism rate, a low body temperature and slow heart beat indicate that you live a long time: “your heart can only beat so many times.” Most of these people also advocate “conditioning exercise,” and they point out that trained runners tend to have a slow heart rate. (Incidentally, running elevates adrenaline which caused increased clumping of platelets and accelerated blood clotting. Hypothyroidism–whether preexisting or induced by running–slows the heart rate, raises the production of adrenalin, and is strongly associated with heart disease, as well as with high cholesterol.”

 

[TheBeard]

The "issue" is that everyone is at different levels of disbelief, including on this forum, which makes it hard to draw a coherent conscensus to oppose the mainstream thinking.

You have :

- those who think the virus indeed exists but that its effects are oberblown.

- those who think the virus is actually a biochemical weapon that was created to nuke some part of the population for some economical war.

-those who think viruses can't be transmitted and that we are witnessing a mass hysteria phenomenon which is orchestrated by the invisible powers that have been ruling for centuries (I am one of those believers).

 

[boris]

@TheBeard

Ray Peat: "I for a long time have thought that that's a necessary thing everywhere, especially on any important political issue, if you're in a movement. The occupy wall street failed to do that. They insisted that everyone had to have the same opinion and they just stopped existing. If you have some things in common that you agree on, you have to respect the person for having all of those right ideas and forget about their mistakes or omissions."

 

[skittles]

You know...
I know it's your family and everything. But you don't need to stress about it. It can be so frustrating trying to convey a message to someone that's so clear you, but they don't receive the message. Don't let it frustrate you, don't let it rustle your feathers. Everyone I know, even my very conservative father, seems to be worried about this thing. And I'm just going about my day, being my normal chipper self. They can choose to live in fear, if they really want to. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion about anything anymore. It just never seems to lead me anywhere good.

Maybe I'm being naive with my disinterest in Covid, and maybe I'll contract it next week and be dead before the new year. But, frankly, real or not, big issue or small issue, it's just not worth worrying about. The sad truth is, most people are in constant fear of one political thing after another thanks to the media. But at the end of the day, you've really just gotta take care of yourself, and have faith that people will find comfort in your lack of fear.

Sorry I can't give you any better advice.

 

[tankasnowgod]

The "issue" is that everyone is at different levels of disbelief, including on this forum, which makes it hard to draw a coherent conscensus to oppose the mainstream thinking.

You have :

- those who think the virus indeed exists but that its effects are oberblown.

- those who think the virus is actually a biochemical weapon that was created to nuke some part of the population for some economical war.

-those who think viruses can't be transmitted and that we are witnessing a mass hysteria phenomenon which is orchestrated by the invisible powers that have been ruling for centuries (I am one of those believers).

Also, you at least have me, who believes that no "novel coronavirus" was ever discovered in the first place. No one yet has tried in any way to post electron micrographs, or a paper satisfying Koch's postulates, or even blurry video evidence that shows COVID jumping from a bat to a human. Everyone on "Team Virus" believes the most ridiculous stuff, barring any sort of evidence. If they came out tomorrow and told you that doing 17 somersaults made you immune to COVID, everyone on Team Virus would believe it without question. Video of you doing somersaults would be faaaar superior to the proposed "Freedom Pass," and you would be able to fly on Quantas Airlines for the rest of your life, probably with a 20% "I beat Covid by doing somersaults" discount. They could just as easily make it "You have to shotgun a Pabst" or "Get to Level 5 of the original Angry Birds."

There is also no evidence of some mystery illness, like, say, people randomly growing horns out of their forehead. And no justification in any way for the medical experiments like masks or lockdowns. No study from 2019 or earlier suggests any of these interventions should be used for any type of outbreak, and the studies this year (like the Danish Mask Study) have been massive losses for Team Virus.

Team Virus is basically Cumberland in the classic game of Georgia Tech vs. Cumberland- 100 years ago: Georgia Tech's 222-0 victory

Except in this world, Team Virus proudly beats their chest at being totally unfeated, and thinks that somehow by losing massively, they are actually the winners.

 

[Rooster]

It came out today at thanksgiving dinner I don't wear masks. My sister in law and husband now went to cancel Christmas with my 4 year old daughter because someone might die.

They are so ignorant theyndont even know the official story of the moment is that masks don't protect you, they protect others from you.

Nevermind that 99% of the Covid cases are in people wearing masks...

People are truly ignorant. Humanity may not be worth saving.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It came out today at thanksgiving dinner I don't wear masks. My sister in law and husband now went to cancel Christmas with my 4 year old daughter because someone might die.

They are so ignorant theyndont even know the official story of the moment is that masks don't protect you, they protect others from you.

Nevermind that 99% of the Covid cases are in people wearing masks...

People are truly ignorant. Humanity may not be worth saving.

Yeah, but you might die the next time you go driving in a car. Or stay at home. Or do anything in this life, really.

It's weird that fictional character Frank Drebin had a better grip on this idea than your family.

 

[Regina]

Yeah, but you might die the next time you go driving in a car. Or stay at home. Or do anything in this life, really.

It's weird that fictional character Frank Drebin had a better grip on this idea than your family.

Hah. We're in Florida now. It's a mix. But the funniest thing I see here is guys on Harley's with no helmet, but wearing a mask.

 

[LLight]

What about anosmia that a lot of people seem to suffer?
Are people just giving more attention to this symptom wrt to previous years?

 

[boris]

What about anosmia that a lot of people seem to suffer?
Are people just giving more attention to this symptom wrt to previous years?

I think that‘s one of the more ridiculous things that‘s happening. It‘s not a new symptom.

A year prior almost every kid could tell you, that you sometimes can‘t taste and smell when you‘re bedridden with a flu. What Can Cause a Loss of Taste and Smell?

If you google search for „flu loss of taste“ you will be overrun with propaganda telling you how COVID anosmia is different than flu anosmia. That might be true, but it doesn‘t mean that it didn‘t happen with last years coronaviruses or that everyone experiencing anosmia has „COVID“.

 

[LLight]

If you google search for „flu loss of taste“ you will be overrun with propaganda telling you how COVID anosmia is different than flu anosmia. That might be true, but it doesn‘t mean that it didn‘t happen with last years coronaviruses or that everyone experiencing anosmia has „COVID“.

Not saying that it's unique to covid. Just that its prevalence seems to be increased this year.

At my workplace (in september IIRC), in two weeks of time, there were like 4 "cases" having anosmia, quickly regained after that.

 

[boris]

Not saying that it's unique to covid. Just that it's prevalence seems to be increased this year.

At my workplace (in september IIRC), in two weeks of time, there were like 4 "cases" having anosmia, quickly regained after that.

Yeah, I think it‘s attention like you said. In a normal year people just wouldn‘t talk about it so much.

 

[Ben.]

Well i just browsed on reddit and got hit with this post from this austrian woman who happense to be a nurse, "sharing" her experience.

Was in Österreich wirklich los ist.

Its in german but i try to translate it:

"We are tired and drained, we are angry and sad. Something noone of us wouldve thought of happening, happened. The hospitals are full. All Intensive stations and normal stations are full with patients who all suffer from the same disease. Noone of us has ever experienced this. We fight for every live but it seems futile. 80-100 deaths every day. The crematoria can't keep up with this workload. The pictures we saw in the spring from Italy are now our reality. If i hear anyone "speculating" that we lower the restrictions soon i get sick and feel teased. With this, the third wave and third lockdown in january/february are inevitable. I'm curious how many of the nursing staff will be present then. I am also curious who can take these nightmares from us and make up for the suffering we've seen."

-------------------
I've to add you don't see anything here. Just a picture of a supposedly nurse. To confirm this, one would've to visit a couple of hosipitals and crematoria.
If she's right, its horrible ofc. But if she's wrong she's adding to the already way out of proportion hysteria created by the media and politicians.

Who are people, family and friends more to believe? Me, a random graphic designer ... or this nurse? Ofcourse the nurse, majority of the people do not double fact check stuff on their own.

The real question shouldn't be who's opinion to follow. But what is the actual truth?

 

[boris]

Well i just browsed on reddit and got hit with this post from this austrian woman who happense to be a nurse, "sharing" her experience.

Was in Österreich wirklich los ist.

Its in german but i try to translate it:

"We are tired and drained, we are angry and sad. Something noone of us wouldve thought of happening, happened. The hospitals are full. All Intensive stations and normal stations are full with patients who all suffer from the same disease. Noone of us has ever experienced this. We fight for every live but it seems futile. 80-100 deaths every day. The crematoria can't keep up with this workload. The pictures we saw in the spring from Italy are now our reality. If i hear anyone "speculating" that we lower the restrictions soon i get sick and feel teased. With this, the third wave and third lockdown in january/february are inevitable. I'm curious how many of the nursing staff will be present then. I am also curious who can take these nightmares from us and make up for the suffering we've seen."

-------------------
I've to add you don't see anything here. Just a picture of a supposedly nurse. To confirm this, one would've to visit a couple of hosipitals and crematoria.
If she's right, its horrible ofc. But if she's wrong she's adding to the already way out of proportion hysteria created by the media and politicians.

Who are people, family and friends more to believe? Me, a random graphic designer ... or this nurse? Ofcourse the nurse, majority of the people do not double fact check stuff on their own.

The real question shouldn't be who's opinion to follow. But what is the actual truth?

Nothing new in Austria, it happens regularly during flu season:

Grippe: Wiens Spitäler überfüllt

Influenza – die unterschätzte Gefahr

 

[Summer]

Too many people are beyond waking up. It would literally take an act of divine intervention. We live in a generation of cowards. So much cognitive dissonance that they’re deathly afraid of the flu and will shut the world down over it UNLESS you’re protesting in support of far left causes then it suddenly isn’t a threat. Stick with likeminded individuals and let the crazies destroy themselves.