Help Requested: How To Heal From Masturbation, Mentally And Physiologically

[yoshiesque]

Also, what is your life like at the moment? Studying? Working? How about social life?? When was the last relationship you were in? What about friends? What do you do in your spare time???

These things all matter, given context

 

[Katia]

So many of you here might already be acquainted with my journey to reduce, ultimately eliminate PMO. I started this because I noticed a significant change in mood and psychology (for the worse) when I had my extreme bout during the Summer of 2018. Since then, I have consciously tried to eliminate masturbation, to no avail as I keep relapsing when I am in a condition that elicits a relapse. Also, many people don't believe it, but I think that masturbation also affects hair growth, or inhibits it, more specifically. I noticed that I have medium length vellous hairs that sprouted over my period of abstinence, and the hair grew considerably thicker. Again, nutrition and supplementation were unchanged factors in this observation.

This is a narrative on my most recent relapse, as of yesterday, which was after a 72 day period of abstinence. Honestly, I feel absolutely terrible. I really wish that I could have done anything else but relapse, but I did, and I ended up doing so 4 times within 24 hours.

I am posing the inquiry here as people here tend to be much more in line with evidence based approaches and are generous enough to provide much more descriptive and insightful anecdotes than on other forums I have visited: How can I recover from this? I never thought I would relapse again and its tearing me apart. From a physiological perspective, can I recover from this? I worked so hard trying to get some hair regrowth these past two months, and I feel like all my progress has been lost. I think I know what I wrong: I got complacent. I stopped tending to my daily journal, I stopped caring about masturbation, and I stopped the intention. Ultimately, my mental discipline weakened over the 72 day period because I started to feel "normal" again and thought I could ride it out to infinity and beyond. That obviously wasn't the case, and here I am, imploring to anyone who can provide some perspective. Thank you all so much for your time, and I wish you all the best of health.

So many of you here might already be acquainted with my journey to reduce, ultimately eliminate PMO. I started this because I noticed a significant change in mood and psychology (for the worse) when I had my extreme bout during the Summer of 2018. Since then, I have consciously tried to eliminate masturbation, to no avail as I keep relapsing when I am in a condition that elicits a relapse. Also, many people don't believe it, but I think that masturbation also affects hair growth, or inhibits it, more specifically. I noticed that I have medium length vellous hairs that sprouted over my period of abstinence, and the hair grew considerably thicker. Again, nutrition and supplementation were unchanged factors in this observation.

This is a narrative on my most recent relapse, as of yesterday, which was after a 72 day period of abstinence. Honestly, I feel absolutely terrible. I really wish that I could have done anything else but relapse, but I did, and I ended up doing so 4 times within 24 hours.

I am posing the inquiry here as people here tend to be much more in line with evidence based approaches and are generous enough to provide much more descriptive and insightful anecdotes than on other forums I have visited: How can I recover from this? I never thought I would relapse again and its tearing me apart. From a physiological perspective, can I recover from this? I worked so hard trying to get some hair regrowth these past two months, and I feel like all my progress has been lost. I think I know what I wrong: I got complacent. I stopped tending to my daily journal, I stopped caring about masturbation, and I stopped the intention. Ultimately, my mental discipline weakened over the 72 day period because I started to feel "normal" again and thought I could ride it out to infinity and beyond. That obviously wasn't the case, and here I am, imploring to anyone who can provide some perspective. Thank you all so much for your time, and I wish you all the best of health.

Hi. I m new here. Masturbation is anti-natural. It's a infra-sexuality, sorry to say. It loses the most potent energy we have. You can work "internal work" with your Divine Mother, asking her to eliminate, desintegrate, burn, keep asking till you feel aliviated. Ask where ever comes back. You will stronger and stronger.

 

[boris]

Masturbation is anti-natural.

If you say so.

Elephants, dolphins, rodents and many more animals masturbate.

Probably they feel great about it and don't chastize themselves afterwards.
Feeling bad about masturbation is a social construct (unless you are zinc deficient )

 

[Tristan Loscha]

If you say so.

Elephants, dolphins, rodents and many more animals masturbate.

Probably they feel great about it and don't chastize themselves afterwards.
Feeling bad about masturbation is a social construct (unless you are zinc deficient )

..O M G ! !


..but very much true.
keep on trucking,and keep your micronutrients up,and resolve any outstanding micronutrient debt.

 

[Gone Peating]

If you say so.

Elephants, dolphins, rodents and many more animals masturbate.

Probably they feel great about it and don't chastize themselves afterwards.
Feeling bad about masturbation is a social construct (unless you are zinc deficient )

How could it be a social construct if across virtually every culture you find men saying the same things that masturbation depletes energy and makes one feel at least a little bit "off"?

It's clearly a real phenomenon and not just in people's heads due to "society"

And just because animals do something doesn't mean we should too. Monkeys also throw their own ***t at each other

 

[Nebula]

OP was beating him self up for "relapsing" after over 2 months of abstinence. I think in his case this might be the bigger problem.

Yes, this is a major thing the nofap school of thought gets wrong. It sets guys to feel like crap about themselves and their life just because their life and health didn’t get better from not masturbating for a long time. These guys need to address their metabolic and social problems.

I have been meaning to ask, but how is a vegetarian diet deficient, and would you perhaps be able to provide sources for deficiency?

Oysters. Like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Crown-Prince...keywords=smoked+oyster&qid=1573000755&sr=8-15

It’s not time to be dogmatic about diet when you need to recover your health. In a depleted metabolic state beef, organs and oysters are some of your best tools. You don’t have to eat huge amounts forever, but there isn’t really any substitutes. Supplements don’t come close.

Some other It might be worth looking

How could it be a social construct if across virtually every culture you find men saying the same things that masturbation depletes energy and makes one feel at least a little bit "off"?

It's clearly a real phenomenon and not just in people's heads due to "society"

And just because animals do something doesn't mean we should too. Monkeys also throw their own ***t at each other

I think difference is wild animals listen to their instincts better. They don’t masturbate excessively except maybe while in captivity. Modern humans are essentially living in captivity and out of touch with biological feedback and often deficient in social bonds. Masturbation becomes easily overused as a way to drown out various stresses without addressing root problems.

 

[Soren]

Massaging actually thickened you’re hair. How confident Are you of this?

Pretty confident. My temples have definitely thickened up a bit, lots of vellus and terminal, the crown is where I am having trouble. I can feel that it has always been a lot tighter and tougher to change.

If you say so.

Elephants, dolphins, rodents and many more animals masturbate.

Probably they feel great about it and don't chastize themselves afterwards.
Feeling bad about masturbation is a social construct (unless you are zinc deficient )

Evidence shows that it happens a lot more in captivity then in the wild. Probably an attempt at stress reduction due to being in captivity.

 

[redsun]

How could it be a social construct if across virtually every culture you find men saying the same things that masturbation depletes energy and makes one feel at least a little bit "off"?

It's clearly a real phenomenon and not just in people's heads due to "society"

And just because animals do something doesn't mean we should too. Monkeys also throw their own ***t at each other

Because most men, and most humans nowadays are not healthy and feel like ***t on a daily basis. And Id also like to remind you that the internet can make it seem like it affects every man, the nofappers are very vocal on the web and make themselves known and literally have begun to permeate every internet forum, like this one for example. The nofap movement is like a cancer of the internet.

Just spend some time reading the nofap subreddit where this crap all began and its literally embarrassing to read how all these men think PMO is the cause of all their problems. They literally think they are a failure because they PMO. And when they relapse they get emotionally crushed. Like whiny babies. They feel completely incapable of functioning when they relapse. This is all caused by severe debilitating shame for no reason at all which destroys their body and mind. And the shame of PMO for the vast majority of them translates into shame of sex and shame of being sexually attracted to women and having lust and primal urges. The white knighting on that subreddit is a straight up abomination to mankind.

Most of them will be stuck in this state of attempting nofap, going good on a streak and avoiding that which they are ashamed about, relapsing followed my mentally and emotionally collapsing, and starting again. Rinse and repeat until they realize their insanity and just move on with their life and suddenly the PMO isnt a concern. Or theyll be stuck because they are too mentally ill to get themselves out of the cycle and in the end accomplish nothing because they'll only ever see themselves as the guy that doesn't fap. Then the few with an actual brain get a GF and never think about it again.

Not going to even mention the brainlets that do nofap and nosex/noejaculation while they have a girlfriend. LOL that ***t cracks me up. But the part that isnt funny is they spread onto every forum and try to get others to do it.

 

[boris]

And just because animals do something doesn't mean we should too. Monkeys also throw their own ***t at each other

Mmh I don't necessarily believe we should do it because monkeys do it. I merely responded to someone saying it's anti-natural

How could it be a social construct if across virtually every culture you find men saying the same things that masturbation depletes energy and makes one feel at least a little bit "off"?

It's clearly a real phenomenon and not just in people's heads due to "society"

Something that happens in your head is still a real phenomenon. I know that messages like these (pic) are around for a long time and seep into your subconscious. Also don't forget to factor in what many said here, metabolic health plays a major role. The problem should be solved at it's root. No-fap is at best a bandaid and at worst clearly destructive in the way it messes with peoples heads (beating yourself up for "relapsing" etc.) I think @redsun and @Nebula made some good points on this.

 

[boris]

I think difference is wild animals listen to their instincts better. They don’t masturbate excessively except maybe while in captivity. Modern humans are essentially living in captivity and out of touch with biological feedback and often deficient in social bonds. Masturbation becomes easily overused as a way to drown out various stresses without addressing root problems.

Evidence shows that it happens a lot more in captivity then in the wild. Probably an attempt at stress reduction due to being in captivity.

Interesting, makes sense that it would happen more frequently in captivity. Seems to be a similar situation to our large part of society living isolated in flats with little human contact and other problems (see "Hikkikomori").

 

[Nebula]

Because most men, and most humans nowadays are not healthy and feel like ***t on a daily basis. And Id also like to remind you that the internet can make it seem like it affects every man, the nofappers are very vocal on the web and make themselves known and literally have begun to permeate every internet forum, like this one for example. The nofap movement is like a cancer of the internet.

Just spend some time reading the nofap subreddit where this crap all began and its literally embarrassing to read how all these men think PMO is the cause of all their problems. They literally think they are a failure because they PMO. And when they relapse they get emotionally crushed. Like whiny babies. They feel completely incapable of functioning when they relapse. This is all caused by severe debilitating shame for no reason at all which destroys their body and mind. And the shame of PMO for the vast majority of them translates into shame of sex and shame of being sexually attracted to women and having lust and primal urges. The white knighting on that subreddit is a straight up abomination to mankind.

Most of them will be stuck in this state of attempting nofap, going good on a streak and avoiding that which they are ashamed about, relapsing followed my mentally and emotionally collapsing, and starting again. Rinse and repeat until they realize their insanity and just move on with their life and suddenly the PMO isnt a concern. Or theyll be stuck because they are too mentally ill to get themselves out of the cycle and in the end accomplish nothing because they'll only ever see themselves as the guy that doesn't fap. Then the few with an actual brain get a GF and never think about it again.

Not going to even mention the brainlets that do nofap and nosex/noejaculation while they have a girlfriend. LOL that ***t cracks me up. But the part that isnt funny is they spread onto every forum and try to get others to do it.

Severe negative effects from frequent ejaculation only seems to happen to men who are already in a weakened state. I guess it’s a phenomenon because the medical establishment and general culture isn’t providing real solutions to men with erectile dysfunction, low T, hypothyroidism, hypogonadism etc. So in desperation they came up with a theory that it’s just dopamine desensitization, which I doubt is the case. It seems to be general metabolic dysfunction and lack of social capital.

Regardless these guys in this situation deserve good metabolic and social advice rather than be ridiculed and told it’s all in their head.

 

[redsun]

Severe negative effects from frequent ejaculation only seems to happen to men who are already in a weakened state. I guess it’s a phenomenon because the medical establishment and general culture isn’t providing real solutions to men with erectile dysfunction, low T, hypothyroidism, hypogonadism etc. So in desperation they came up with a theory that it’s just dopamine desensitization, which I doubt is the case. It seems to be general metabolic dysfunction and lack of social capital.

Regardless these guys in this situation deserve good metabolic and social advice rather than be ridiculed and told it’s all in their head.

Dopamine can be a part of it and is related to T levels of course. But yeh I agree that dopamine desensitization is bull. Its a flip of a coin if any specific neurotransmitter in your brain is going to work when you have a weak metabolism. None of them may work right or as well as they should if your metabolic state is crappy. Dopamine is a fraction of the picture.

 

[Gone Peating]

Mmh I don't necessarily believe we should do it because monkeys do it. I merely responded to someone saying it's anti-natural



Something that happens in your head is still a real phenomenon. I know that messages like these (pic) are around for a long time and seep into your subconscious. Also don't forget to factor in what many said here, metabolic health plays a major role. The problem should be solved at it's root. No-fap is at best a bandaid and at worst clearly destructive in the way it messes with peoples heads (beating yourself up for "relapsing" etc.) I think @redsun and @Nebula made some good points on this.

Yes and I have seen just as much if not more propaganda talking about how good masturbation is for your health.

I base my decisions on the fact that masturbation makes me feel bad, not because of some signs, but because it just does. Many other people report the same bad feeling, so I don't see why you feel the need to go around telling them to ignore that feeling and keep masturbating because you say so

 

[redsun]

Yes and I have seen just as much if not more propaganda talking about how good masturbation is for your health.

I base my decisions on the fact that masturbation makes me feel bad, not because of some signs, but because it just does. Many other people report the same bad feeling, so I don't see why you feel the need to go around telling them to ignore that feeling and keep masturbating because you say so

As long you avoid it solely on your feelings and not subconscious shame because you think it is somehow bad because that's what has been irrationally ingrained in you. If you feel bad as others have said and I agree with personally is that it is likely related to a metabolism that cannot rebound from sexual activity of any kind. Some men get very drained from normal sex. Should they avoid sex? Temporarily until they figure what the hell is up with that because its not right to barely be able to function post-ejaculation.

Just keep in mind that both the anti-PMO and pro-PMO "propaganda" are both bad in their own way. Its trying to get you to think a certain way and not listen to your senses on what you should do.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5001999/pdf/tau-05-04-602.pdf

 

[Amazoniac]

The zinc thing has to stop, it's akin to evaluating only the final product rather than the expense of all steps involved.
- Water footprint - Wikipedia

 

[boris]

Many other people report the same bad feeling, so I don't see why you feel the need to go around telling them to ignore that feeling and keep masturbating because you say so

Can you point me to the part where "I go around telling anyone what to do"? I'm sharing my opinion on the topic.

I base my decisions on the fact that masturbation makes me feel bad, not because of some signs, but because it just does.

Psychological stress (in your head) causes physiological effects, too. That was my point.

I also acknowledged the fact that metabolic health and deficencies play a role.

 

[Kunstruct]

Interesting, makes sense that it would happen more frequently in captivity. Seems to be a similar situation to our large part of society living isolated in flats with little human contact and other problems (see "Hikkikomori").

Our large part of society lives isolated in flats?

 

[Kunstruct]

So in desperation they came up with a theory that it’s just dopamine desensitization, which I doubt is the case. It seems to be general metabolic dysfunction and lack of social capital.

There are millions of views on dopamine desensitization on youtube.


You can see that many people if they lay out a bit from something they tend to "miss it". For example if you eat apple pie each day 2 times a day because you like it so much after a while you pretty much do not quite want it anymore. After a while you start missing it and when you eat it again it will taste so go.

Now in the case of nofap, there have been so many examples of people not fapping for months and they still didn't got their libido back.
Not sure which libido they were looking for but this "pause" like with the apple pie seems to not actually work with everyone.
When I am saying I do not know what they are looking for exactly is because somethings in life seems to have a rather unique impression on you. For example visiting a museum can be overwhelmingly awesome the first time, yet the second time it's mostly flashbacks of how awesome it was.
This can be said even for cocaine usage, first time awesome, 5th time far from the first time.

People are saying they are "watching porn" like porn would be equivalent of something precise, adding 1gram of salt to the food, but I doubt they are watching the same porn over and over and the fact that they always see something new is what is overly attractive rather than the same scene over and over. After seeing all that is to be seen there is no more interest and the "awesome feeling" goes away, but they still want to get the same thing as the first time of whatever scene they were looking at.

 

[boris]

Our large part of society lives isolated in flats?

A large part. Yes.

Hikikomori - Wikipedia
More recently, researchers have developed more specific criteria to more accurately identify hikikomori. During a diagnostic interview, trained clinicians evaluate for:[7]

1. spending most of the day and nearly every day confined to home,
2. marked and persistent avoidance of social situations, and social relationships,
3. social withdrawal symptoms causing significant functional impairment,
4. duration of at least six months, and
5. no apparent physical or mental etiology to account for the social withdrawal symptoms.

According to Japanese government figures released in 2010, there are 700,000 individuals living as hikikomori within Japan, with an average age of 31

Additionally, the government estimates that 1.55 million people are on the verge of becoming hikikomori.

A 2015 Cabinet Office survey estimated that 541,000 recluses aged 15 to 39 existed. In 2019, another survey showed that there are roughly 613,000 people aged 40 to 64 that fall into the category of "adult hikikomori"