Need Help with Elevated Serotonin and Prolactin

[liam183]

For years now, I've been struggling with problems that I recently, through research, discovered are linked to high serotonin and high prolactin levels. Let me list some symptoms:
-digestive issues (loose stools, especially from sugar and flour. I've become mostly-regular from supplements which I will list below as well as dietary changes)
-puffy nipples, recently developed mild gyno on one side and sensitivity on both sides
-potential hair line receding/hair loss. It is very minor but I can notice it slightly. I've also bleached my hair in the recent past so this may have contributed
-delayed ejaculation: Most of the time I'm fine on my own, but cannot finish with partners as of last time I tried a few months ago before my current protocols
-lack of muscle gain despite sufficient calories and exercise
-water retention
-heavy sweater during exercise and in heat

I have always been extremely active (wrestled for 8 years and stopped last year, lifting 3x/week for around 4 years now, baseball throughout youth, etc) but I am fairly sedentary during the day. I'm religious with my sleep schedule so that is not an issue. As far as stress goes, I'm an engineering student if that says anything haha. I keep my diet clean and follow about as good as I can get as a student.

Here are my current supplements:
-Black seed oil: ~1-2 tsp daily
-Perfect Supplements beef organs: 4 capsules daily
-Oystermax: 3 capsules daily
-L-Lysine: 2000mg daily (though I might go back down to 1000mg)
-Cordyceps tincture: ~45 drops 5x/week
-Niacinamide: 1.5g-2g/day
-L-Arginine (500mg) with 10mg B6: 1x/day
-Rhodiola Rosea: 200-400mg as needed (usually 4-5x/week)
-Fulvic/Humic blend: ~20mL daily
-Rosita cod liver oil (I know Peaters hate this one, but it has helped my teeth significantly): ~1/2tsp-3/4tsp/day
-Butter oil: 1 heaping tsp daily
-Glycine: 2-3g daily
-Aspirin: ~500mg 3-4x/week
-Vitamin E tincture: just got this and would love input from you guys about dosage
-Tribulus: in the mail coming soon. This will likely replace rhodiola for the most part, though I will likely still take that 1-2x a week if I feel extra stressed
-Magnesium: foot soak in epsom salt for about 10 minutes ~5x/week

I've also been adding more insoluble fibers (carrot salad, mushroom soup), though the carrots tend to back me up a bit, so I will probably reduce this. I also bought Crucial Four mSalt to add to my water, which seems to be helping with water retention.

Anyway, I know this was a long post, but I look forward to hear what you guys think.

 

[mostlylurking]

For years now, I've been struggling with problems that I recently, through research, discovered are linked to high serotonin and high prolactin levels. Let me list some symptoms:
-digestive issues (loose stools, especially from sugar and flour. I've become mostly-regular from supplements which I will list below as well as dietary changes)
-puffy nipples, recently developed mild gyno on one side and sensitivity on both sides
-potential hair line receding/hair loss. It is very minor but I can notice it slightly. I've also bleached my hair in the recent past so this may have contributed
-delayed ejaculation: Most of the time I'm fine on my own, but cannot finish with partners as of last time I tried a few months ago before my current protocols
-lack of muscle gain despite sufficient calories and exercise
-water retention
-heavy sweater during exercise and in heat

I have always been extremely active (wrestled for 8 years and stopped last year, lifting 3x/week for around 4 years now, baseball throughout youth, etc) but I am fairly sedentary during the day. I'm religious with my sleep schedule so that is not an issue. As far as stress goes, I'm an engineering student if that says anything haha. I keep my diet clean and follow about as good as I can get as a student.

Here are my current supplements:
-Black seed oil: ~1-2 tsp daily
-Perfect Supplements beef organs: 4 capsules daily
-Oystermax: 3 capsules daily
-L-Lysine: 2000mg daily (though I might go back down to 1000mg)
-Cordyceps tincture: ~45 drops 5x/week
-Niacinamide: 1.5g-2g/day
-L-Arginine (500mg) with 10mg B6: 1x/day
-Rhodiola Rosea: 200-400mg as needed (usually 4-5x/week)
-Fulvic/Humic blend: ~20mL daily
-Rosita cod liver oil (I know Peaters hate this one, but it has helped my teeth significantly): ~1/2tsp-3/4tsp/day
-Butter oil: 1 heaping tsp daily
-Glycine: 2-3g daily
-Aspirin: ~500mg 3-4x/week
-Vitamin E tincture: just got this and would love input from you guys about dosage
-Tribulus: in the mail coming soon. This will likely replace rhodiola for the most part, though I will likely still take that 1-2x a week if I feel extra stressed
-Magnesium: foot soak in epsom salt for about 10 minutes ~5x/week

I've also been adding more insoluble fibers (carrot salad, mushroom soup), though the carrots tend to back me up a bit, so I will probably reduce this. I also bought Crucial Four mSalt to add to my water, which seems to be helping with water retention.

Anyway, I know this was a long post, but I look forward to hear what you guys think.

black seed oil: although it is touted as having miraculous health benefits, it is a seed oil so by definition it is PUFA. Please research PUFA as I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Cod liver oil: More PUFA, see above.

L-Arginine: Long term exposure to L-arginine accelerates endothelial cell senescence through arginase-II and S6K1 signaling Ray Peat advises avoiding supplementing with individual amino acids. I trust Ray Peat.

glycine: high dose can cause problems not seen when supplementing with gelatin (a high glycine food) instead.

1.5-2 grams niacinamide: that's a lot of niacinamide. Are you over-doing all this stuff? There are some pretty exotic things on this list. Is this the classic shotgun approach? Do you understand what each of these things do and how they interact with each other?

Vitamin E "tincture": what's that?

-Perfect Supplements beef organs: 4 capsules daily: Eat real food; it is cheaper and far superior.
-Oystermax: 3 capsules daily: see above.

"I keep my diet clean and follow about as good as I can get as a student." I have no idea what you mean by that.

Here are a couple of search engines I think you might find helpful in your quest for health: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless searches all of Ray Peat's written articles; use the cell on the left to search what you want to learn about.

Bioenergetic Search searches all of Ray Peat oriented audio shows. Simply type in a word or very short phrase to search whatever you find of interest.

 

[qminati]

As a fellow serotonin sufferer, the first advice I would give you is to stop all the supplements. At least the ones that go in the gut. I spent months trying to feel better and nothing comes close to how much better i felt when i stopped everything. Serotonin is mostly in the gut and all those ingredients could be wrecking havoc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when you have really high serotonin, you aren't going to supplement your way out of it. Focus on whole foods.

Learn about how to heal your thyroid, take your temps and eat with the purpose of raising temperatures without irritating your gut. You should feel good after every meal.

 

[mostlylurking]

For years now, I've been struggling with problems that I recently, through research, discovered are linked to high serotonin and high prolactin levels. Let me list some symptoms:
-digestive issues (loose stools, especially from sugar and flour. I've become mostly-regular from supplements which I will list below as well as dietary changes)
-puffy nipples, recently developed mild gyno on one side and sensitivity on both sides
-potential hair line receding/hair loss. It is very minor but I can notice it slightly. I've also bleached my hair in the recent past so this may have contributed
-delayed ejaculation: Most of the time I'm fine on my own, but cannot finish with partners as of last time I tried a few months ago before my current protocols
-lack of muscle gain despite sufficient calories and exercise
-water retention
-heavy sweater during exercise and in heat

Please allow me to make a few suggestions:
start with this article: The ultimate guide to lowering prolactin » MENELITE
Please note that estrogen increases prolactin. PUFA is estrogenic. Estrogen is detoxed through the liver. The liver needs to be provided via the diet what it needs to do its job. High prolactin points to high estrogen which points to a possible liver problem. High estrogen also blocks thyroid function as the liver is where T4 gets turned into T3. The liver is extremely sensitive to ethyl alcohol poisoning (aka party drinks and beer). Beer is especially estrogenic.

One of the things the liver needs is adequate thiamine. Thiamine (B1) would be a good thing for you to research because thiamine is also required to clear serotonin.

Here's a list of topics you could look into via the two search engines provided earlier: Prolactin, estrogen, polyunsaturated fats, thiamine (B1), "estrogen and the liver". You will find other important things to look up as you work your way through Ray Peat's articles.

Focus on healing your oxidative metabolism; when that works well, everything else tends to right itself. Use the search engines and research: metabolism, fats, starch, sugar, oxidation. Do get PUFA out of your life.

 

[mostlylurking]

but when you have really high serotonin, you aren't going to supplement your way out of it.

Researching thiamine would be a good idea. It actually works, but magnesium is needed too. A good b-complex is also helpful along with the thiamine.

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Vitamin B1 on testosterone, estrogen, DHT and dopamine » TESTONATION

Here’s why every Alpha Energy male needs vitamin B1 for high androgens and feeling awesome. Low vitamin B1 can lead to low energy, low dopamine (low mood), low testosterone and infertility and estrogen dominance. According to Dr Marrs and Dr Lonsdale, measurable thiamine deficiency has been...

men-elite.com

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of thiamine on serotonin levels in magnesium-deficient animals

To clarify the relationship between thiamine metabolism and peripheral vasodilation symptoms seen in the early stages of dietary magnesium deficiency,…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[liam183]

Researching thiamine would be a good idea. It actually works, but magnesium is needed too. A good b-complex is also helpful along with the thiamine.

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Vitamin B1 on testosterone, estrogen, DHT and dopamine » TESTONATION

Here’s why every Alpha Energy male needs vitamin B1 for high androgens and feeling awesome. Low vitamin B1 can lead to low energy, low dopamine (low mood), low testosterone and infertility and estrogen dominance. According to Dr Marrs and Dr Lonsdale, measurable thiamine deficiency has been...

men-elite.com

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of thiamine on serotonin levels in magnesium-deficient animals

To clarify the relationship between thiamine metabolism and peripheral vasodilation symptoms seen in the early stages of dietary magnesium deficiency,…

www.sciencedirect.com

I appreciate all your replies man. I've viewed a lot of the stuff you've talked about including pretty much every article Hans has on this topic and related ones.
One question I do have is how much PUFA is too much? I get that cod liver oil and black seed oil are high in PUFA, but I seem to benefit from both. Without cod liver oil and butter oil, I tend to get toothaches. Without black seed oil, I tend to have allergy symptoms (postnasal drip, itchy eyes). What could cause this, and how would I go about phasing out these PUFAs for something else to fix my issues? Thanks.

 

[liam183]

As a fellow serotonin sufferer, the first advice I would give you is to stop all the supplements. At least the ones that go in the gut. I spent months trying to feel better and nothing comes close to how much better i felt when i stopped everything. Serotonin is mostly in the gut and all those ingredients could be wrecking havoc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when you have really high serotonin, you aren't going to supplement your way out of it. Focus on whole foods.

Learn about how to heal your thyroid, take your temps and eat with the purpose of raising temperatures without irritating your gut. You should feel good after every meal.

Thanks. This has been an issue since well before I began supplementation. Honestly, I've been like this since around the time I started puberty. I've been trying to figure out how to get this stuff from real food, hence why I try to use food-based supplements. I just can't stomach organ meats, and oysters are not my favorite either.

I will definitely be reducing the amount of supplements I take, and as of late, I have been trying to take tinctures (liquid form of supps) as much as possible instead of capsules. I'll probably start breaking open my capsules and mixing with food as well.

 

[mostlylurking]

I appreciate all your replies man. I've viewed a lot of the stuff you've talked about including pretty much every article Hans has on this topic and related ones.
One question I do have is how much PUFA is too much? I get that cod liver oil and black seed oil are high in PUFA, but I seem to benefit from both. Without cod liver oil and butter oil, I tend to get toothaches. Without black seed oil, I tend to have allergy symptoms (postnasal drip, itchy eyes). What could cause this, and how would I go about phasing out these PUFAs for something else to fix my issues? Thanks.

PUFA is toxic. It is carcinogenic. If you believe that it's OK to consume just a small amount of a carcinogen on a daily basis because well, postnasal drip, then I think you are having trouble deciphering which is worse, cancer or need for a tissue.

The way you phase out PUFAS is you stop swallowing them and you stop slathering them on your skin. Just stop.

Butter is a saturated fat, not high in PUFA. Coconut oil is very safe and good for you. It is the vegetable oils, including all the seed oils, that are dangerous. Look it up on the Ray Peat articles search here: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless

Ray Peat says that the problem with PUFA is that you cannot get away from it; it's everywhere. Even coconut oil has a tiny bit. You can probably tolerate maybe something like a few milligrams of it/day if your metabolic rate is good, which you would probably get from eating an egg or two. The trouble is that PUFA lugs down your metabolic rate. Your body doesn't know what to do with it so it stores it in your fat cells. For YEARS. It accumulates. It doesn't just "go away".

Read Peat articles about it so that you understand it.

There's something called "oil pulling" that is done with coconut oil. That might be helpful with teeth sensitivity. Oil Pulling: Benefits & How to Oil Pull

 

[Mito]

One question I do have is how much PUFA is too much?

Peat has suggested limiting PUFA to 4 grams daily. Paul Jaminet has a similar suggestion of no more than 2-4% of energy.

4 Grams Of PUFA A Day Is Not A Threshold

That's because essentially there is none: the more PUFA in the diet, the more predisposed an animal is to cancer up until a point where it isn't safe to venture. Raj's opinion is below, skip to it if you want to. I went through his articles on fats, trying to locate the review that he had in...

raypeatforum.com

Others have suggested more PUFA might be okay if the ratio of saturated fat to PUFA is at least 10:1.

 

[tommyg130]

As a fellow serotonin sufferer, the first advice I would give you is to stop all the supplements. At least the ones that go in the gut. I spent months trying to feel better and nothing comes close to how much better i felt when i stopped everything. Serotonin is mostly in the gut and all those ingredients could be wrecking havoc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when you have really high serotonin, you aren't going to supplement your way out of it. Focus on whole foods.

Learn about how to heal your thyroid, take your temps and eat with the purpose of raising temperatures without irritating your gut. You should feel good after every meal.

Interesting .. as I get further and further away from supps, ive been feeling better and better. I guess supplements just bombard an already stressed system. Currently I just take shilijat and vitamin E. When I finish my supply I will stop and see how I feel w nothing . Stopping aspirin helped me big time. Not sure why