Healing Midbrain Damage (chronic Fatigue Syndrome)

[orewashin]

CFS is probably caused by midbrain damage, causing failure to heal the brain and body after exertion-induced injury. There's evidence for midbrain regression and prefrontal compensation.

Taking it easy (letting the midbrain heal and NOT using the prefrontal areas) seems conductive to healing.

Caffeine probably reduces its healing. I find it acts like a type of exertion and causes fatigue afterward.

I wonder about thyroid. I sleep better from T3 and feel better psychiatrically. My body turns T4 into reverse-T3 or something and I get the opposite effect of T3. The body reduces T3 during injury, infection, starvation, etc. What if the low-T3 syndrome is actually adaptive in this case? People with CFS have a higher incidence of low-T3 syndrome.

Pregnenlolone and progesterone don't cross the BBB, IIRC. It's T3 that turns cholesterol into these hormones in the brain, which is why it may aid mylelination of the midbrain and heal it.

Recently, RP said that the body has an adaptive fasting response, in times of infection, for example. I have a chronic lack of appetite, does it mean I shouldn't eat?

Even serotonin in this case seems protective. If the prefrontal areas are activated due to a low-serotonin state, then it could slow healing.

Taurine and niacinamide may be useful in this case for inhibiting the cortex. CO2 and sodium the same. I found that sodium reduces muscle pain. Gelatin could also be good.

What if red light promotes healing of the midbrain, but light in general puts strain on the system, thus why people sometimes avoid light? People with CFS are prone to overstimulation from noise, light, etc.

People with CFS have a reduced inflammatory response to injury. What kind of effect would aspirin have if a person doesn't even have an issue with inflammation? Would it be useless?

Normal Peaty advice doesn't seem to apply in the case of CFS, and it's resistant to stuff like PUFA restriction. PUFAs cause an inflammatory state, impairing healing, but people with CFS aren't effected by inflammation, rather a lack of proper inflammation.

Sources:

Evidence in chronic fatigue syndrome for severity-dependent upregulation of prefrontal myelination that is independent of anxiety and depression

Less efficient and costly processes of frontal cortex in childhood chronic fatigue syndrome

Higher Prevalence of “Low T3 Syndrome” in Patients With Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Case–Control Study

A brain MRI study of chronic fatigue syndrome: evidence of brainstem dysfunction and altered homeostasis

Autonomic correlations with MRI are abnormal in the brainstem vasomotor centre in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - PubMed

Intra brainstem connectivity is impaired in chronic fatigue syndrome - PubMed

A systematic review of neurological impairments in myalgic encephalomyelitis/ chronic fatigue syndrome using neuroimaging techniques - PubMed

Mapping of pathological change in chronic fatigue syndrome using the ratio of T1- and T2-weighted MRI scans - PubMed

 

[shine]

I am pretty sure that pregnenolone sulfate can cross the blood brain barrier and then get un-sulfated in the brain.
Pregnenolone was the most effective substance I took for CFS. Especially when taken sublingually as micronized powder.

 

[milkboi]

I am pretty sure that pregnenolone sulfate can cross the blood brain barrier and then get un-sulfated in the brain.
Pregnenolone was the most effective substance I took for CFS. Especially when taken sublingually as micronized powder.

What doses were effective?

 

[orewashin]

I am pretty sure that pregnenolone sulfate can cross the blood brain barrier and then get un-sulfated in the brain.
Pregnenolone was the most effective substance I took for CFS. Especially when taken sublingually as micronized powder.

Epilepsy

"the sulfated steroids do not cross the BBB readily"

Steroids and Neuronal Activity

"steroids, but not steroid sulfates, enter the brain from circulation. the BBB is almost impenetrable to steroid sulfates, but free steroids can cross it."

 

[milkboi]

So intranasal Pregnenolone?

 

[lampofred]

I would guess the mid brain damage is related to hypoxia, more demands on cells than available glucose and oxygen. Coffee and T3 might seem to exacerbate the problem in the short-run but in the long-run I think they would promote healing. High cortisol and insufficient steroid production to keep cortisol low is probably involved. I think too much iron and low copper turn off steroid production (among many other things, too lazy to list them but I will if you're interested in hearing my guesses lol)

 

[shine]

What doses were effective?
So intranasal Pregnenolone?

Sublingually everything from 1-50mg was great. But I don't think you could take up the whole 50mg, most of it gets swallowed. But I used to put like 10-15mg under my tongue in the morning and let it stay there for about 15-30 minutes while preparing breakfast and so on. Great effects.

My rat tried out intranasal pregnenolone once and he said the effects were tremendous. Completely different ball game. He said that this would be his preferred ROA if he could get his hands on pure pregnenolone, but he isn't keen on snorting rice starch.

 

[Kram]

You could look into ICES / PEMF technology. I recently started using the A9 device to heal degenerative disc disease in my neck and have found it tremendously helpful. There are reports of this technology helping all sorts of brain issues as well

12 things you need to know about PEMF and ICES® technology

ICES: Tool Combats Fatigue & Inflammation (Upgraded PEMF) - SelfHack

 

[lvysaur]

CFS is probably caused by midbrain damage, causing failure to heal the brain and body after exertion-induced injury. There's evidence for midbrain regression and prefrontal compensation.

Taking it easy (letting the midbrain heal and NOT using the prefrontal areas) seems conductive to healing.

Caffeine probably reduces its healing. I find it acts like a type of exertion and causes fatigue afterward.

Recently, RP said that the body has an adaptive fasting response, in times of infection, for example. I have a chronic lack of appetite, does it mean I shouldn't eat?

Taurine and niacinamide may be useful in this case for inhibiting the cortex. CO2 and sodium the same. I found that sodium reduces muscle pain. Gelatin could also be good.

All these things you said are exactly in accordance with what I've read about COVID "long haulers". Some I've experienced myself, actually. Coffee, chocolate, and exertion are all bad. Chronic lack of appetite occurs, probably due to IL-1 or IL-2 (? one of the ILs causes appetite restriction following infection). I have read about niacinamide being helpful but haven't yet tried it.

Is your post in any way related to COVID, or a different type of CFS?

 

[orewashin]

All these things you said are exactly in accordance with what I've read about COVID "long haulers". Some I've experienced myself, actually. Coffee, chocolate, and exertion are all bad. Chronic lack of appetite occurs, probably due to IL-1 or IL-2 (? one of the ILs causes appetite restriction following infection). I have read about niacinamide being helpful but haven't yet tried it.

Is your post in any way related to COVID, or a different type of CFS?

Nope. Adolescent-onset CFS. I already had orthostatic intolerance when I was 13 (dizziness, darkened vision, rarely fainting after standing up suddenly), so I wonder if I can even heal from it. OI is one of the main symptoms of CFS.

I found Peat when I was 15, but I didn't consider thyroid issues until I caught a nasty flu or something when I was 18, and then I felt bad a month or two after, so I got my thyroid tested. I already had CFS before this, the flu just made it worse. I couldn't adapt to exercise.

I have some autonomic issue with blood flow. OI, large veins, varicoceles, muscles not getting "pumped" but getting achy and fatigued easily.

 

[lvysaur]

I found Peat when I was 15

How old are you now? I had massive issues with vasovagal syncope fainting when I was 19, but they faded on their own within 2 years, even before I started Peat stuff.

 

[Korven]

Nope. Adolescent-onset CFS. I already had orthostatic intolerance when I was 13 (dizziness, darkened vision, rarely fainting after standing up suddenly), so I wonder if I can even heal from it. OI is one of the main symptoms of CFS.

I found Peat when I was 15, but I didn't consider thyroid issues until I caught a nasty flu or something when I was 18, and then I felt bad a month or two after, so I got my thyroid tested. I already had CFS before this, the flu just made it worse. I couldn't adapt to exercise.

I have some autonomic issue with blood flow. OI, large veins, varicoceles, muscles not getting "pumped" but getting achy and fatigued easily.

Sounds like thiamine really could help you out.

Have you read Dr Lonsdale's work on hormonesmatter.com? He has had success with treating dysautonomia and CFS with up to 900 mg TTFD or allithiamine per day.

 

[cjm]

Coffee, chocolate, and exertion are all bad. Chronic lack of appetite occurs, probably due to IL-1 or IL-2 (? one of the ILs causes appetite restriction following infection)

Very interesting. I am a bit underweight with no appetite but forcefeeding makes things worse. When coffee or sports is good and fun, it's very good and fun, but it's hit or miss, depends on the day.

Just had an Organic Acid Test done (per @tyw) to check for infection and I don't care to interpret the results right now, not to mention the doctor's summary was kind of vapid, but there was no overt sign of infection other than slightly elevated levels of arabinose.

 

[lvysaur]

Very interesting. I am a bit underweight with no appetite but forcefeeding makes things worse. When coffee or sports is good and fun, it's very good and fun, but it's hit or miss, depends on the day.

I was referring specifically to the infection symptoms, I experienced them during COVID, and I'd wager they're similar to the ones in most CFS cases. It was advanced lack of appetite, even a small bowl of pasta would send me to the toilet in minutes.

Months after the illness, I ended up taking some antibiotics (amoxicillin, because it was prescribed to me). It was my first time on "real" antibiotics (rather than carrots, bamboo, and capric+citric acid). They helped clear up some lingering effects, but also they gave me a stellar appetite, even better than I had before the illness. My appetite feels like a teenager.

So I would say, antibiotics can definitely be worth it if you haven't tried. Before COVID, I also had a general mild lack of appetite, and hit-or-miss reaction to coffee. (I think the bad effects from coffee are due to homocysteine, particularly if it ever gives you ocular pressure)

 

[cjm]

Sounds like thiamine really could help you out.

+1. Just ordered some allithiamine to try a course. I get tired walking up the stairs sometimes, ha! Dang lactic acid burn in the legs.

My body turns T4 into reverse-T3 or something

People with CFS are prone to overstimulation from noise, light, etc.

Have you looked into adrenaline at all? I know it seems counter-intuitive but I resonate with how you're feeling and have benefited recently from focusing on bringing down adrenaline. My libido actually went up on propranolol, which is supposed to decrease T4 conversion.

 

[cjm]

So I would say, antibiotics can definitely be worth it if you haven't tried.

I have a crap ton of ampicillin laying around but it makes me smell like raw sewage. I think it worked. Made a ethanol-based topical out of it once. I've had some spiritual experiences after the carrot salad, still hit or miss, though. Gonna rope that bad boy back in and see what happens.

 

[cjm]

(I think the bad effects from coffee are due to homocysteine, particularly if it ever gives you ocular pressure)

VERY interesting. My eyes feel like the focal point of my tension. I get relief from weighted eye masks. Checking out your post on The Coffee/Folate/MTHFR Connection.

 

[5a-DHP]

I was referring specifically to the infection symptoms, I experienced them during COVID, and I'd wager they're similar to the ones in most CFS cases. It was advanced lack of appetite, even a small bowl of pasta would send me to the toilet in minutes.

Months after the illness, I ended up taking some antibiotics (amoxicillin, because it was prescribed to me). It was my first time on "real" antibiotics (rather than carrots, bamboo, and capric+citric acid). They helped clear up some lingering effects, but also they gave me a stellar appetite, even better than I had before the illness. My appetite feels like a teenager.

So I would say, antibiotics can definitely be worth it if you haven't tried. Before COVID, I also had a general mild lack of appetite, and hit-or-miss reaction to coffee. (I think the bad effects from coffee are due to homocysteine, particularly if it ever gives you ocular pressure)

Very interesting. Mind expanding on the dose, length and time frame regarding amoxicillin use? Have these improvements lasted long after cessation? My gf has a similar issue, so we may consider this.

 

[shine]

Sounds like thiamine really could help you out.

Have you read Dr Lonsdale's work on hormonesmatter.com? He has had success with treating dysautonomia and CFS with up to 900 mg TTFD or allithiamine per day.

I second that. TTFD is so helpful for CFS. Haidut has posted about PDH being blocked/not active enough in CFS.

 

[orewashin]

@Ivysaur @Korven @cjm @shine
I'm 25 and going off insurance soon. I'm getting EMG done, which would show the muscular fatigue, and I suggested orthostatic testing. My ESR (sedimentation rate) is on the low side, indicating my body has a low rate of inflammation, which is often found in people with CFS. A bunch of blood tests ruled out other causes.

My impression of CFS is impaired inflammatory response where it's needed because of damage to the autonomic nervous system, which is similar to being overwhlemed by inflammation like PUFAs, since a person has difficulty with proper healing.

I tried 1 capsule a day of TTFD and I can't say I noticed much. My vitamins were on the high side. B1 wasn't tested, but it likely was as well. It may help reduce lactic acid production, but I'd like to address the cause, which is damage to the autonomic system. Being 25 and having to skip showers to save energy is terrible.

@Kram

The neuronal healing study was interesting.

Effects of electromagnetic field (PEMF) exposure at different frequency and duration on the peripheral nerve regeneration: in vitro and in vivo study - PubMed

The guy talked about putting the PEMF device in different areas. I would put it about where my occipital bone is, or above my neck. While inflammation is low in CFS, it could help the midbrain and brainstem heal. Would you happen to know the best types for this application and explain the differences between them?