Garrett Is Garretting Once Again: The Questionable Practitioners (rant)

Discussion in 'Rant or Rave' started by Amazoniac, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    For some context in case you don't know who is this guy, he's a doctor and has been vulturing the community for a good while now. The first time I heard him was probably on a podcast with Matt Stone, and it's always the same disdaining tone and the superiority complex, looking down on others and particularly those from here. In a recent interview with Patrick Timpone he said something along the lines of 'your previous interviewee (which was Raj) handles me clients', implying that he has to deal with the mess that Raj creates.

    But don't let this get to you, judge it as impartially and objectively as possible, otherwise you'll be moving towards one of the behaviors that I'm criticizing here: the emotional hysteria.

    It's also worth mentioning that at times he sounds absurd enough for me to question if there isn't a marketing element to it. If there is, a hat tip because (as you can tell) it's working. I would like it to be so, since an intentional manipulative move would naturally exclude the possibility of it being convicted ignorance.


    What led me to come across his irrational stuff again was a visit to Grant's forum, a guy that escaped a critical condition by avoiding vitamin A. I was searching for experiences on stages of depletion and found a recorded testimonial, decided to listen. It was uploaded by the doctor in question and there was a suggestion for other videos from his channel.

    As some of you know, I try to be open-minded about different approaches and opinions, contrarians are great. I would like to mention gbolduev as someone who was arrogant and intolerant, yet his posts had their merits and it was nice to have him around, up to this day I mimic him in a playful way. I'm mentioning this to point out that it's not a matter of being bothered by these traits. It's not Garrett's case, but I certainly don't mind other people being under the spotlight when they're putting out good content, quite the opposite, and Travisord's thread on the forum is proof of this.

    It's the combination of incompetence with an off-putting conduct on a level that's not admissible for a doctor.

    This was the suggested video:


    I acknowledge the overuse and excessive dosing of vitamin D supplements, its incompleteness in relation to sunlight, the debatable adequacy, the financial aspect of it, and so on; anyone with a more conservative approach or who has been involved in nutrition for a while realizes it. Again, this is to leave it clear that no sensitive point was touched. Yet, to go from there to extremely toxic takes a lot of irrationality. There have been reports of people taking accidental doses of millions of IU and recovering.

    He cites this experiment as justification for not supplementing:
    - Is Supplemental Vitamin D Safe? "RENAL POTASSIUM-WASTING INDUCED BY VITAMIN D"

    Then some analysis that don't say much about individual cases who would be getting comprehensive nutrition.

    It doesn't take much consideration to realize that something as simple as using up your already low magnesium can be responsible for those adverse effects. It affects potassium and calcium. Constipation, palpitations and fatigue are all consequences of its lack. A doctor named Stasha Gominak who wasn't familiar with nutrition at all, rapidly noticed that she had to ask her patients to increase other nutrients along, otherwise they had trouble with it.

    Even though absorption rate is just one of the factors involved in balance, given the typical poor magnesium retention when metabolism isn't sharp, it's interesting to draw a pachelbel between it, venom D and B-vitamins; absorption for them tends to be high and remain as such, whereas for magnesium it's low. Magnesium and everything else that's affected will start to become limiting when you shove those down.

    It's attempted to bypass this by applying magnesium topically, but not with Jorgito's Magnoil whose absorption is practically complete, instead, with magnesium chloride that on the best case scenario of skin uptake being decent, affects acid-base balance in a way that's difficult to compensate.

    It's not a mere induction of magnesium deficiency, there are many other factors involved, it's complex as we all know.

    But what would Garrett do next? Label it as toxic like any other nutrient that you can't work it out. Then proceed with the proud belief that you know something precious that others don't. Afterwards, you access publications with Sci-Hub, but the hypocrisy here is that you then distort the information, add everything to your website, disable discussions and lock all the content so that no one copies.


    As mentioned and since you're probably a lurker anyway, if you want to be taken seriously as a doctor, start acting like one. And I don't mean walking around with a stethoscope, but I would start by shutting up the mouth until you get a sense of what you're doing. It's disheartening to find you acting hysterical and ignoring the responsibility that you carry along with your credential, spreading confusion over and over again in spite of being detached from the medical system to a certain degree; considering the information that you put out, you can't blame being unreasonable on greater acting forces that impose limitations on what you can write or do.

    Composed and ponderate professionals are needed instead of alarmist charlatans that only create more confusion while feeding from it.

    We all make mistakes, but there are acceptable limits. Please stop claiming that poison A is a toxin present in whole foods ('if you like your eyes, you shouldn't like poison/"vitamin A"'), that nightshades are to be avoided ('Potatoes just may be the most dangerous food that westerners eat on a regular basis.'), that adults shouldn't drink milch, that calcium supplements wreck you, and so on if I was trying to seek these instead of having stumbled upon them by chance.

    If you're going to launch a detox program, naming it right can help in convincing that the content was well-thought. It's Poison/"Vitamin" A, not "Vitamin A", since it was developed to target a specific poison.

    Stop embarassing naturopaths, pretending to be an expert when you're clearly not one, and predating on people's desperation.

    This is not an underestimation of people's ability to discern what's legit or not, it's a matter of time or despair distorting our perception, perhaps lowering our standards, and this is when charlatans take advantage. Take myself as example (below), it took me a good while to realize the cluelessness.

    You probably won't change your default mode because of a post, but hopefully this message serves to encourage potential clients to be more suspicious of your products/services and question the competence of other practitioners as well, which in turn can benefit from your case by using it as a model for how not to run their practices.

    Lastly, dude, what's up with this unscrupulous soundtrack? Her voice would be nice on its own.
     
  2. Kartoffel

    Kartoffel Member

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    Why must you try and tear down the incredible amount of healing going on? Why not try and help it instead?
     
  3. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Kartoffel! Are you into autophagy? Depending on it, we have great news for you.
     
  4. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    He is arrogant and that sometimes makes his videos difficult to watch. But I like his content, the studies he highlights, and articles he shares. You just need to be aware of the exaggerations.

    He is the kind of man who in a year’s time will be telling us to avoid something or other to the death and how great something else is...and it’ll be an interesting ride to see how he gets there.

    By the way Amazoniac this is some of the most understandable content you have ever written. Garrett is good for you!
     
  5. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    I'm with @Amazoniac on this. Garrett Smith is dangerous since he can scare people with his black and white nonsense into believing him. There are some accounts of people getting worse following his advice. He is using his clientele to test his theories. It's only a matter of time before he gets caught.

    He lacks nuances in his theories. The body is complex and the effects of substances are multiple, but he tends to either label them as safe or poison without accounting for personal circumstances.
     
  6. Kartoffel

    Kartoffel Member

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    Yes, but only in combination with Helen's newest mineral protocol.
     
  7. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Well, you have been around for long enough to screen through it, but put yourself in the position of an inexperienced person. The guy is a doctor (making use of his credentials) after all.
     
  8. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    Lions tigers and bears out there
     
  9. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Well at least he's not chasing anyone down with his program in forums. At least that I know of. Either you like his practice or not, take it or leave it, pay him or not to experiment on you. I know multiple people posing as practitioners chasing down sick people in forums. They are hardly experts in health and yet they still dole out advice as if they are. Not even Ray Peat ventures as far as they do. But anyway, that testimonial was interesting. I haven't eliminated dairy but have been mindful of big vitamin A sources for the last year and I feel like I've undone some of the damage I did following the typical high A diet. I've been drinking about 1 cup of coffee which feels good, doesn't seem to give the manic feelings as in the past and hasn't given me any anxiety. I'm like anxiety proof. Quite quite amazing considering I had the level of panic disorder that most people take strong meds for (didn't succumb to them thank God). Not saying it was only the vitamin A as I also do somatic practice which solved anxiety at the root of it, but.... I duno, I'm going to continue being skeptical of high A (and also vit D supps :p:).
     
  10. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    To be honest, I wasn't expecting a single reply here, I thought it would go straight to the dungeons.

    Garrett has a family, so I have to be mindful with my words because questioning his reputation (regardless of the impact of this not being significant) has the potential to affect his business, and by extension those around him; it's an unsettling thought. On the other hand, this should be one more reason for someone to be more careful to run an ethical practice and considerate as communicators. It's also not fair to loosen the judgment just because of the circumstances of the person that's spreading misinformation, it could in turn affect other families.

    But I don't agree that these are mere exaggerations or stop as semantic details. Mistakes of this caliber reveal serious ignorance in understanding of basic concepts, to be able to adopt such beliefs you're also rejecting everything that's consequential to them.

    For example, how can you label poison A as inherently toxic without evidencing that you have no clue about cell functioning, differentiation, respiration? How can you tell people under marked inflammation that they can get by with low dietary calcium intake without leaving it clear that you have no idea about the way the immune system operates? How to claim that venom D is also extremely toxic without ignoring all of its therapeutic uses?


    In that podcast, he referred to advocates of venom D supplements in conferences as 'jokers'. Michael Holick is one such advocate, of course there are the financial controversies and a bias, nevertheless, it's difficult for a practitioner (including Garrett) not to be influenced by his advances in the field:

    - Michael F. Holick - Wikipedia

    "As a graduate student, he identified the major circulating form of vitamin D, 25-hydroxyvitamin D3,[20] which is the vitamin D metabolite that is measured by physicians worldwide to determine a patient's vitamin D status.[21] He also identified the active form of vitamin D, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3,[22] as well as other metabolites including 24,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3,[23] 1,24,25-trihydroxyvitamin D3[24] and 25,26-dihydroxyvitamin D3.[25]

    As a fellow, he participated in the first chemical synthesis of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3[26] and 1α-hydroxyvitamin D3[27] to treat renal osteodystrophy,[28] hypoparathyroidism,[29][30] vitamin D dependent rickets type I,[31] and osteoporosis.[32] Furthermore, he elucidated the pathophysiology of hereditary vitamin D-dependent rickets which involves defective vitamin D metabolism,[33] and the pathophysiological mechanisms of X-linked hypophosphatemic rickets.[34]

    Holick helped develop the first clinical assays for 25-hydroxyvitamin D and 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D,[35] determined how vitamin D3 is made in the skin from sun exposure,[36] and established how season,[37] time of day,[38] skin pigmentation,[39] sunscreen use,[40] and latitude[37] influenced this vital cutaneous process. He established that the skin was not only the organ responsible for making vitamin D3[36] but was also a target tissue for its active form, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3.[41] He determined the extremely inhibitory effects of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 on keratinocyte proliferation and the promoting effects on differentiation,[41] and translated these seminal observations by demonstrating that the topical application of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 and several of its analogs were effective for the treatment of psoriasis.[42]

    He demonstrated that macrophages[43] and prostate cells[44] have the enzymatic machinery to produce 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, and established that the extrarenal production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 may play a crucial role not only in cancer prevention but also in regulating the immune system.[45]

    He developed a vitamin D absorption test[46] and demonstrated that vitamin D was bioavailable in orange juice, leading to fortification of juice products in the United States.[47] He also used the test to demonstrate the major cause of vitamin D deficiency in obesity is sequestration of vitamin D in the fat.[48]"​

    I have the impression from interviews that Raj respects him. But within controversies, who is the bigger joker here, Michael or someone that refers to poison A as poison A? Garrett having a little edge for being a free thinker.

    I won't prolong this, the peatard just wanted to make a case outside of a thread that not everyone was willing to access, that's about it. This won't be a continuous attempt to dissuade people, perhaps I'm the one who is not being fair. Below is his website in case you want to arrive at your own conclusions, give it a shot:
    - Nutrition Restored
     
  11. Dobbler

    Dobbler Member

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    @Amazoniac Im too ADD to read all your post on vitamin D but can you give a brief sum up of your thoughts about supplementing D (I live in scandinavia with absolutely 0 sunlight for 8 months a year) . Why do you call it venom first of all?
     
  12. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Why do you guys even follow these idiots and conmen?

    There are thousands of them on the internet.
     
  13. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    Garrrett actually reads studies and talks about them. I don't agree with haidut on a lot of things, he runs a business, but I still read him.
     
  14. jmojo

    jmojo Member

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    I am always highly skeptical of Dr. G. Over the last 10 years I have witnessed him jump from one thing to another and each time he always proclaims that each new finding or experiment was the "missing piece", the "answer needed to fix everything". It's perfectly healthy to keep digging and to keep searching and refining things but to think that you've got it all figured out with each new finding and then promoting yourself as an authoritative figure just doesn't jive with me. He also tends to be very conspiracy prone as well. Everything is a conspiracy out to get you.
     
  15. Hermes

    Hermes Member

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    Hm, maybe he secretly wishes to be aknowledged as some kind of healer: look at me, I help you poor sick souls!
     
  16. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Because it's extremely toxic! The deadly pair: poison A and venom D. Zeus could rename Calcirol to Suicidin or Cemeteriol.

    I would favor the (UV) lamps to get you closer to this and avoid this. You can alternate exposure with heat lamps à la Ramón to minimize skin damage.

    If buying them is not possible Automated Teller Machine, I would make sure that your state, diet and lifestyles are aligned and supportive to taking it isolated.

    You can skip these depending on your confidence of being in good shape.

    Magnesium:
    - Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3
    - Is Vitamin D Supplementation Even Neccessary

    Calcium:
    - Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3
    - Is Vitamin D Supplementation Even Neccessary

    Antidote K2:
    - Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3
    - Vitamin K2
    - Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3

    B-vitamins. An example:
    - Sulphur-reducing Bacteria

    Antidote C:
    - Vitamin C
    - Vitamin C (more in terms of collagen)

    Protein with enough glycine and lysine
    Copper and manganese

    Taurine due to its calcium-regulating properties:
    - Taurine: The Key To Restoring Metabolic Function?

    lampofreyko exercises to normalize breathing.
    Wow is carbonated beverages? Is will bicarbonates?

    Boron or silicon could be helpful.

    Physical activity:
    - Benefits Of Exercise On Mitochondrial Dysfunction And Oxidative Stress
    - Association between physical activity and Vitamin D: A narrative literature review

    Then, it's worth puncturing your jugular for testing. If this is also not an option, I would start with something like 500 IU/d, and gradually increase if necessary, but only after having stabilized with the current dose to tell if incrementing is a right move. As discussed with Jennifer once, most of the benefits will be coming from the first parts than the rest of a dose, when there's uncertainty and potential for harm, it's safer to stick to the low doses because it's probably a good trade-off that's more sustainable in the long-term. The benefits should start to flatten as you increase, I would try to avoid going much beyond 2000 IU/d without monitoring, unless you have clear indications for doing so.

    It's also wise to avoid ingesting it with calcium-rich meals, better to take them apart, otherwise topically by applying the meal on the skin and eating the supplement.

    You can also reduce the frequency of use while maintaining the total dose to avoid regular imbalances:
    - Coimbra Protocol

    Let's say that you settle at 1500 IU/d, taking for example 5000 IU 2x/week can make it easier for you to develop a preventive ritual around the time of taking it to prime your body to metabolize it properly, making sure that tissues are charged and it's put to storage safely while reducing the risks of unwanted calcification over time. Niacin might stimulate immediate storage, not sure.

    Of course the majority of these are as essential as dietary poison A, so pick whatever serves you.
     
  17. Kartoffel

    Kartoffel Member

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    Last time I checked, haidut also engages in critical discussion about the studies and opinions he posts. Good guy Garret Smith doesn't even allow comments and locks his content so that people have to copy his nonsense letter by letter. He knows that he can only fool uneducated and desperate people, and since he doesn't want to let go of their money, he avoids subjecting his "ideas" to the criticism of intelligent, honest people. He is a classical snake oil salesman.
     
  18. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Lustig reads and writes studies, but I am not going to follow his work. So does that Rhonda Patrick, and she megadoses fish oil.
     
  19. MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    And haidut also brings out non-positive aspects touching his products, usually dosage related, like strong androgens suppressing/ decreasing 3B-HSD activity... He even likes or give tumbs up to negative feedback about his products! Incidentally @Kartoffel , would you please let me be informed about your posts in my news feed?
    Even better Kammas question/ doubt everything. Perceive, think, act
     
  20. Kram

    Kram Member

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    Out of curiosity, what points/topics do you disagree with Haidut on?
     
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