Vitamin D Really Toxic?

Makafre

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Mar 27, 2018
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With such a high dose how do you prevent calcium from getting into the wrong places? What other supplements do you take?

The main rules to avoid hypercalcemia are;

- At least 2.5L of water every day to help flush the calcium (I take 3.0L)
- No calcium supplement or supplement that contain calcium
- No dairy (milk, cheese, etc.)
- No nuts
- No NSAIDs (advil, etc.) - its tough on the kidneys
- Max 500mg vitamin C per day
- 1000mg of magnesium chloride to avoid magnesium depletion and all associated symptoms (it is needed for converting D3)
- Blood test every 2 months for calcium/creatinine (you need to be followed by a doctor)
- I also take Boron, B12, Methyfolate, Omegas, selenium, chromium
- Note: K is useless at these levels

An interesting fact: If I take one riboflavin-5-phosphate (50mg) cap per day instead of 3 regular 100mg riboflavin caps, I can cut my D3 dose by 5 and achieve the same treatment benefits. It doesn't lower the risks of hypercalcemia though, it just "lowers" the level at which it can happen...
 

charlie

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The main rules to avoid hypercalcemia are;

- At least 2.5L of water every day to help flush the calcium (I take 3.0L)
- No calcium supplement or supplement that contain calcium
- No dairy (milk, cheese, etc.)
- No nuts
- No NSAIDs (advil, etc.) - its tough on the kidneys
- Max 500mg vitamin C per day
- 1000mg of magnesium chloride to avoid magnesium depletion and all associated symptoms (it is needed for converting D3)
- Blood test every 2 months for calcium/creatinine (you need to be followed by a doctor)
- I also take Boron, B12, Methyfolate, Omegas, selenium, chromium
- Note: K is useless at these levels

An interesting fact: If I take one riboflavin-5-phosphate (50mg) cap per day instead of 3 regular 100mg riboflavin caps, I can cut my D3 dose by 5 and achieve the same treatment benefits. It doesn't lower the risks of hypercalcemia though, it just "lowers" the level at which it can happen...
What benefits are you seeing from this?
 

Makafre

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What benefits are you seeing from this?

It would be long to explain it all but in a few lines;

- MS relapses length were 12 weeks before I started, then started to decrease to 4 weeks, and then 1 week as I adjusted the D dose
- Now 1 year relapse free
- Before treatment my relapses were horrible; difficulty to swallow, difficulty to walk, heavy limbs, had to push on my legs to go up the stairs, bunch of muscle weaknesses, extreme fatigue, etc. but after I started they all became very light, it was more a light fatigue than anything else
- Wasn't able to do anything useful of my life, was only able to watch TV all day, couldn't make me lunch, huge brain fog, had to quit my job; now I am working part time, I drive 2 hours every day and I am back to being useful in the house, use the snowblower for the first time this year, etc. I spend time with my kids and everything..my mind is also crystal clear
- Some muscle weaknesses went away after I had them for 12-14 months, when normally they say that after 6 months they are permanent
- Some days I can forget I have MS and I am still improving, I should be symptom free later this year

That is pretty much it :) it actually works with any autoimmune disease
 

charlie

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It would be long to explain it all but in a few lines;

- MS relapses length were 12 weeks before I started, then started to decrease to 4 weeks, and then 1 week as I adjusted the D dose
- Now 1 year relapse free
- Before treatment my relapses were horrible; difficulty to swallow, difficulty to walk, heavy limbs, had to push on my legs to go up the stairs, bunch of muscle weaknesses, extreme fatigue, etc. but after I started they all became very light, it was more a light fatigue than anything else
- Wasn't able to do anything useful of my life, was only able to watch TV all day, couldn't make me lunch, huge brain fog, had to quit my job; now I am working part time, I drive 2 hours every day and I am back to being useful in the house, use the snowblower for the first time this year, etc. I spend time with my kids and everything..my mind is also crystal clear
- Some muscle weaknesses went away after I had them for 12-14 months, when normally they say that after 6 months they are permanent
- Some days I can forget I have MS and I am still improving, I should be symptom free later this year

That is pretty much it :) it actually works with any autoimmune disease
Incredible. Thank you for sharing.

What is you magnesium chloride source? Liquid, powder?
 

raypeatclips

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I took megadoses of Vit D (10,000 IU daily) and ended up in the hospital with HYPERCALCEMIA (too much calcium in the blood, which can shut kidneys down.) Was hospitalized for a few days as the hospital administered diuretics for me to urinate all the Calcium out. Everything was fine otherwise and I did not feel ill, but was rushed to the ER anyway.

Vit D must be balanced with the other fat soluble Vitamins A/E/K.

What symptoms did you have to cause you to be hospitalised?
 

Makafre

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Mar 27, 2018
Messages
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Incredible. Thank you for sharing.

What is you magnesium chloride source? Liquid, powder?

A pleasure. I am presently using goodstate ion mag dry caps but intend to switch to a liquid form. It's just that I haven't found a liquid form that I can swallow up until now. Liquid chloride magnesium is the worst thing I ever put in my mouth for my whole life :)
 

SOMO

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What symptoms did you have to cause you to be hospitalised?

No symptoms other than serum Calcium level of 15. Anything higher than 10 is potentially damaging.

I did not go to the ER because I was experiencing symptoms, I went to the ER because I was getting routine bloodwork and my doctor got an alert that there was something off with my lab results. He called me and woke me up in the middle of the night and advised me to check myself into the ER.
 

EIRE24

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The main rules to avoid hypercalcemia are;

- At least 2.5L of water every day to help flush the calcium (I take 3.0L)
- No calcium supplement or supplement that contain calcium
- No dairy (milk, cheese, etc.)
- No nuts
- No NSAIDs (advil, etc.) - its tough on the kidneys
- Max 500mg vitamin C per day
- 1000mg of magnesium chloride to avoid magnesium depletion and all associated symptoms (it is needed for converting D3)
- Blood test every 2 months for calcium/creatinine (you need to be followed by a doctor)
- I also take Boron, B12, Methyfolate, Omegas, selenium, chromium
- Note: K is useless at these levels

An interesting fact: If I take one riboflavin-5-phosphate (50mg) cap per day instead of 3 regular 100mg riboflavin caps, I can cut my D3 dose by 5 and achieve the same treatment benefits. It doesn't lower the risks of hypercalcemia though, it just "lowers" the level at which it can happen...
You take omega fish oils?
 

raypeatclips

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Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
No symptoms other than serum Calcium level of 15. Anything higher than 10 is potentially damaging.

I did not go to the ER because I was experiencing symptoms, I went to the ER because I was getting routine bloodwork and my doctor got an alert that there was something off with my lab results. He called me and woke me up in the middle of the night and advised me to check myself into the ER.

How much calcium, vit A and vit K were you getting at the time?
 

TeslaFan

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The best way to avoid problems with hormone (labeled as "vitamin" D), is to not supplement it, but let the body manufacture it from cholesterol, exactly when it needs it, just like it does with all other hormones. Body will regulate production of this hormone.

Vitamins are essential nutrients that body needs to obtain from food because it cannot produce them on its own. On the other hand, hormones are made in the body, from cholesterol. They should rarely, if ever, be supplemented.
 

Amazoniac

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The main rules to avoid hypercalcemia are;

- At least 2.5L of water every day to help flush the calcium (I take 3.0L)
- No calcium supplement or supplement that contain calcium
- No dairy (milk, cheese, etc.)
- No nuts
- No NSAIDs (advil, etc.) - its tough on the kidneys
- Max 500mg vitamin C per day
- 1000mg of magnesium chloride to avoid magnesium depletion and all associated symptoms (it is needed for converting D3)
- Blood test every 2 months for calcium/creatinine (you need to be followed by a doctor)
- I also take Boron, B12, Methyfolate, Omegas, selenium, chromium
- Note: K is useless at these levels

An interesting fact: If I take one riboflavin-5-phosphate (50mg) cap per day instead of 3 regular 100mg riboflavin caps, I can cut my D3 dose by 5 and achieve the same treatment benefits. It doesn't lower the risks of hypercalcemia though, it just "lowers" the level at which it can happen...
Thank you for collecting those. Is this based on Coimbra's protocol for M and S?
If so, allow me to add some notes:
  • Avoidance of high-calcium foods or supplements (this means that dairy fat and perhaps some greek yogurts are fine): it's the main concern when it comes to toxicity with elevated doses. But elevation is subjective and someone with weak metabolism probably experiences the compromising effects much sooner than other people. For example, Zeus posted in his magnesium product thread about the average absorption (35%) and retention (10-15%) of magnesium: 3-5% of a magnesium dose sounds lame (although it might do something useful before it's flushed). Now imagine that on someone that's supplementing vit D and consuming plenty of calcium; it will go down the drain, which in turn will complicate things because vit D activation depends on magnesium.
  • Proper hydration deserves attention as the doses increase. Thirst apparently is very common in high doses. Coconut wasser is good and doesn't upset the balance if the person isn't robust. According to him, this protect the kid and neys from excess calcium concentration, deposition and damage.
  • If therapeutic doses are used, adjusting based on P and T and H blood level with a dose that keeps it on the lower end of normal range. If the dose ist colossal, too much calcium will be deposited and the body responds by.. extracting calcium from bones:
  • "Vitamin D inhibits the production of PTH. So if I measure PTH before the patient starts taking vitamin D and then measure it again after two months, I can use the variation of PTH as a parameter of the biological response to the effects of vitamin D. This is precisely the factor used to adjust the doses of vitamin D. Since vitamin D inhibits the production of PTH, I raise the vitamin D levels until PTH reaches its lowest normal level.

    I therefore conclude that when vitamin D has reached the maximum inhibiting effect of PTH, it will also have reached its maximum immunoregulatory effect. I can not; however, suppress PTH to the point that it becomes undetectable, because if PTH is suppressed there's the risk that the dose of vitamin D will be too high, to the point that large amounts of calcium are withdrawn from the bones, and this can increase the calcium in the blood and cause kidney failure. So PTH for us is a security measure. If I do not suppress PTH, I'm sure I'm not giving toxic doses of vitamin D.

    And so I adjust the dose of vitamin D according to the biological resistance to vitamin D that a person inherited genetically. In other words, an individual may require a dose of vitamin D, for example, of 30,000 IU so that their PTH reaches the lower normal limit. Another person may need 100,000 IU for their PTH to achieve the same lower limit. Therefore, measuring the level of PTH for us is a way to adjust the dose of vitamin D to the individual needs of the patient."
This leads to the next of the points..​
  • Daily physical activity. This is important to signal the body that it can't afford to compromise bone density if things go awry.
  • "All those who remain sedentary will slowly loose bone of the mass. If they maintain a daily aerobic exercise (like 30-min brisk walking) they will steadily gain bone density.

    Those high doses of vitamin D stimulate both osteoblastic and osteoclastic activities simultaneously as demonstrated by measuring P1NP and CTX respectively.

    Aerobic exercise (initiated after the second medical appointment) will induce production of calcitonin and efficiently inhibit osteoclastic activity. Those disabled patients (due to neurologic disabilities or joint damage like in rheumatoid arthritis) who are therefore not capable of doing aerobic exercise should receive biphosphonates. We have used alendronate 70 mg per week. Vitamin K2 is useless under the doses of vitamin D we have employed. Aerobic exercise should start from the second medical appointment (when most fatigue is already gone). Disabling fatigue and intolerance to environmental heat affects around 80% of MS and seem to be reliable clinical index of disease activity. We always record the percentual improvement of fatigue and intolerance to heat. Patients usually start noticing reduction of fatigue around 1 month of treatment."
--
Messages From Dr. Cícero Coimbra : Coimbra High-Dose Vitamin D Protocol - This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support
  • "The factors that may counteract the effects of treatment we have identified so far are (1) above all, the emotional issues (we have extensively written about that: please read the final part of the latest update - I think you received a copy of that: I am not sure); (2) recurrent infections (particularly urinary tract infections - sometimes subclinical - but especially when associated with fever); (3) frequent alcohol drinking; (4) smoking; (5) excessively hot baths.

    Returning of old symptoms does not represent reactivation of disease: those symptoms will recur transiently whenever there is a transient stressful life event (being alarmed will only prolong those symptoms by turning on a vicious cycle), whenever they are sleep deprived, tired (for having worked excessively) or exposed to high environmental temperature. They should avoid drugs for gastric "protection" like omeprazole, pantoprazole, etc.

    The initial dose does not provide full effect of the treatment and de full effect of the initial daily dose is reached after 2 months from the beginning of the treatment. The full effect of the treatment is expected for 2-3 months after dose adjustment at the second appointment.

    Patients should be taking riboflavin 50-100 mg 4 times a day and magnesium (for instance, nowadays, we suggest magnesium chloride [or glycinate] 500 mg twice a day)."
  • "Since February 2017 we are trying to reach 800 to 1,200 mg of elemental magnesium (depending on body weight) per day divided into 4 doses. Please remember that we were already using 400 mg per day divided into 4 doses. So, if you decide to use magnesium citrate (for instance) remember that only 18% of magnesium citrate corresponds to elemental magnesium. Extra magnesium is given one hour before meals and at bed time to avoid diarrhea. Doses should be decreased if diarrhea does occur in spite of that.

    Advantages:
    1) It provides much better emotional control;
    2) It fights osteoporosis;
    3) Magnesium is required as co-factor for vitamin D hydroxylases;
    4) Correction of magnesium deficiency provides powerful anti-inflammatory effect.
    5) Higher doses of magnesium compensates for urinary loss of magnesium induced by high doses of vitamin D (probably because vitamin D favors calcium reabsorption from glomerular filtrate - calcium competes with magnesium and magnesium is lost in urine);
    6) It provides higher level of safety: magnesium antagonizes calcium at several levels (including at the level of intestinal absorption);
    7) 80% of occidental population is magnesium deficient;

    In addition, patients should never take proton pump inhibitors or soft drinks of cola."
  • "...There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated when it comes to this topic, and a lot of people are receiving wrong information. There's a general idea that the administration of vitamin D should be interrupted, or the daily dose reduced after a period of supplementation due to vitamin D "cumulative effect". This would supposedly lead to a progressive Increase of the circulating levels of vitamin D, resulting in toxicity. The confusion arises from the fact That vitamin D is "fat soluble", which means that It is soluble in fat and THEREFORE accumulates in our fatty tissue. In this way, by keeping the daily dose unchanged, vitamin D would be progressively deposited in our body fat, while its circulating concentration would increase. However, after two months of use (average) of a constant dose, Vitamin D reaches a maximum aggregate deposit of fat in the body and its concentration becomes stable. For an average adult person, after taking 10,000 IU per day for two months, the concentration levels will be stabilizing and will not continue to Increase beyond the "normal" limit, that corresponds (according to the American Endocrine Society) to 40-100 nanograms per milliliter (or ng/ml). Some Adults with low rate of body fat or that are underweight may exceed this limit when taking 10,000 IU, but they will not reach toxic levels.

    CONCLUSION: if the supplementation of vitamin D is interrupted, circulating levels will return to the previous levels the individual had before supplementation began. In other words, who had a vitamin D deficiency will be deficient again in an average period of two months."
--
Vitamin D and MS: Cofactors
cofactors-uk.jpg


- The vit C involvement vvas new to me. It's here in case people missed.

- The relationship between boron and magnesium status and bone mineral density in the human: a review.

His warning:
"Therapeutic use of Vitamin D3 is different from preventive use. The therapeutic use of this vitamin-hormone D always requires the guidance and monitoring by a physician with specific training to analyse each particular case and to determine the right dose. Otherwise there may be serious damage to health".
 

Capt Nirvana

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So what's natural vitamin D? LOL
Almost any animal or plant food exposed to direct sunlight at or around high noon (11:30 a,m. is ideal) stores "natural" vitamin D and its homologues (not recognized by mainstream science) for a minimum of two or three days (often longer).
 

charlie

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- Blood test every 2 months for calcium/creatinine (you need to be followed by a doctor)
Are these the only 2 markers that need to be looked out for? Also, where can someone find this protocol?
 

Makafre

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Are these the only 2 markers that need to be looked out for? Also, where can someone find this protocol?

There are other markers too but these two are the most important. The FB north-american group contains a lot of testimonials (search for #progress), it is also a great place to ask questions as people are very helpful in there. This web site also gives you basic information on the protocol and some more testimonials: Coimbra protocol - High Doses of Vitamin D for autoimmune Diseases

And here is a video with english subtitles from Coimbra himself that explains the protocol:

And at last, pictures/MRIs of patients before and after the treatment started: Cicero Galli Coimbra - Vitamina D no tratamento de Esclerose Múltipla

Cheers
 

charlie

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Thank you Mr. Makafre, sincerely appreciated. :hattip
 

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