Fats And Carbs In Same Meal

[YuraCZ]

Interesting how many times I have heard of gelatine causing severe stomach issues. It has a ton of endotoxin because it is made with cow hides and hooves and whatnot.

Hydrolyzed collagen is much better choice than gelatin. Gelatin is good maybe for cooking some goodies. But for health purposes is hydrolyzed collagen only choice. It is like comparing lowest quality whey from the store with 90% hydrolyzed whey protein...

 

[artist]

Hydrolyzed collagen makes me as sick or more than the regular kind. Is it just me or do both kinds smell absolutely disgusting as well? It's kind of a rotten meat meets powdered milk smell. (Sorry to those for whom gelatin works) I don't wanna gross anyone out and I'm not trying to be a snob here at all but I'm really curious if I'm alone in this. I feel like I should've trusted my senses to stay away from a substance that makes me gag to that extent.

 

[jyb]

Interesting how many times I have heard of gelatine causing severe stomach issues. It has a ton of endotoxin because it is made with cow hides and hooves and whatnot.

Yeah, but you have to weigh it against the upside. Because other than commercial gelatin or hydrolysed gelatin, how else can you get a few teaspoon of gelatin per day (if that is your aim)? You need a very thorough broth to get to that level, and you'd have to do it every day. I believe gelatin proteins benefits come mostly from small regular intake rather than large one-offs.

Although clearly a possibility, I remain to be convinced that the stomach issue is due to endotoxin. I think it is simply undigested gelatin. Undigested protein in general is pretty bad. I personally go for a reasonable amount at the same time as a meal and during the day. So for example not before bedtime when the stomach acid is not good and proteins can go undigested (which is a problem not just for gelatin but proteins in general). For the same reason, I don't think gelatin "snacks" are good idea either.

 

[Jayfish]

Why do we need gelatin in the first place. Glycine and proline are in all sources of animal meat and dairy. You could take a glycine powder I guess. Or just try to avoid high methionine meats and eat more gelatinous cuts and things like shellfish.

Ray Peat said he doesn't take a gelatine or glycine supplement..

 

[caroline]

My experience has been the following in regards to combining fat and starch--I only do saturated fat, ever: I did poorly and then adapted to each of these in the following order after doing Peat for close to 2 years about.
Fat did not work well or protein.
Low-fat milk was easiest to digest but caused gas. Now I do full fat.
Animal protein was very problematic. Now I do full fat cheese.
Could not do meat or eggs. Now do eggs in baked goods or eat egg yolk raw.
Potatoes were not an option. Do these now with plenty of coconut oil.
While I digested low fat high sugar better, I do feel the above commenter echoed my experience in regard to low-fat. Horrible for my thinking and very demanding schedule.
My experience is that as I have been able to move toward all these things: starch and fat are the best. I read up on why low-fat/high sugar/carbs would be better but after adding back in fat and being able to tolerate it, this feels the absolute best.
It depends on your issues. Mine all improved with Peat and I can guarantee this was the case because I had immense pain from eating eggs, potatoes, etc. But I feel most supported eating both fat and starch.

 

[jyb]

Why do we need gelatin in the first place. Glycine and proline are in all sources of animal meat and dairy. You could take a glycine powder I guess. Or just try to avoid high methionine meats and eat more gelatinous cuts and things like shellfish.

Ray Peat said he doesn't take a gelatine or glycine supplement..

But you could say this about anything. In the case of glycine, show me a food that has any significant amount? Except for gelatinous stuff like broths, which you would need to do very often to get gelatin at the same regularity as with a supplement. I believe Ray has spoken favourably of some gelatin brands.

 

[Jayfish]

But you could say this about anything. In the case of glycine, show me a food that has any significant amount? Except for gelatinous stuff like broths, which you would need to do very often to get gelatin at the same regularity as with a supplement. I believe Ray has spoken favourably of some gelatin brands.

Ray has spoken favorably about a lot of things but he doesn't personally take a gelatin support so that says something.

He only recommends glycine to balance the inflammatory amino that many people get way too much of. If you eat mostly dairy, gelatinous cuts of red meat and shellfish, you will get a very balanced amino profile. Glycine is not an essential amino, after all.

 

[jyb]

Ray has spoken favorably about a lot of things but he doesn't personally take a gelatin support so that says something.

He only recommends glycine to balance the inflammatory amino that many people get way too much of. If you eat mostly dairy, gelatinous cuts of red meat and shellfish, you will get a very balanced amino profile. Glycine is not an essential amino, after all.

Dairy is very poor in gelatin amino acids, it's not just a tryptophane problem. And I don't use gelatin to balance amino acids, I use it for other properties. Although it is no more "essential" than thyroid supplements or any other supplement or food discussed on this forum, it does not mean that your body produces enough for good health and this forum has discussed studies about this. I'm not ready to make very thorough broths every few days, so if I want glycine daily I usually take gelatin from supplements.

I share your concerns in general though. I have found almost all supplements discussed on here to be useless, both the theory behind them and my experience using them. But I take gelatin because my experience tells me to, and I tell others that some of its side effects could just be due to poor usage (I have been there before).

 

[Jayfish]

Dairy is very poor in gelatin amino acids, it's not just a tryptophane problem. And I don't use gelatin to balance amino acids, I use it for other properties. Although it is no more "essential" than thyroid supplements or any other supplement or food discussed on this forum, it does not mean that your body produces enough for good health and this forum has discussed studies about this. I'm not ready to make very thorough broths every few days, so if I want glycine daily I usually take gelatin from supplements.

I share your concerns in general though. I have found almost all supplements discussed on here to be useless, both the theory behind them and my experience using them. But I take gelatin because my experience tells me to, and I tell others that some of its side effects could just be due to poor usage (I have been there before).

I meant that dairy is relatively poor in methionine which to my knowledge is the main inflammatory amino to be concerned about regarding glycine because methionine depletes glycine. If your diet is relatively low or at least balanced by glycine, you should be fine. For instance, milk has the same amount of methionine as glycine.

What are the other helpful properties if glycine that you speak of? I have only really heard it's use as a supplement to support methionine depletion.

 

[jyb]

What are the other helpful properties if glycine that you speak of? I have only really heard it's use as a supplement to support methionine depletion.

Well, Ray wrote at least as much about tryptophane. If I was concerned about amino acid balance like he does, I wouldn't eat dairy at all! Glycine is anti-inflammatory (look at customer reviews for joint pains - no other supplement gets this much consistency in the reviews), small regular amount improve sleep (shown in studies) and in my experience has a small but appreciable relaxing effect on mood. All of this is probably a consequence of the fact that it is "semi-essential" in that the body may not produce enough on its own (this term has been discussed on this forum too).

 

[Jayfish]

I assume that the anti inflammatory properties of glycine is because of the methionine depletion quality. Which of course most Americans get way too much of. Tryptophan should not be an issue if it is properly being turned into niacin.

I guess if one believes that their amino ratio is unbalanced, glycine could be a good addition. Personally I only have had negative reactions to glycine rich supplements. But I could say that about most isolated supps that I have tried.

 

[lindsay]

I have been making gelatin gummies for the past few months and they really help when you have what I call "RAW" intestines. I am super prone to bacterial/endotoxin issues in my lower intestine - my small intestine doesn't have much trouble, thankfully. Gelatin really helps to soothe the intestine after a bad episode.

However, I have had issues with gelatin in the past and it being the cause of endotoxin issues. What I've learned recently is, cook the stuff for a LONG time. I usually leave my gelatin simmering on the stove for about 45 minutes to an hour, which is way longer than it takes to dissolve. Also, make sure there are NO clumps. Clumpage equals uncooked gelatin, which is bad news. I am very wary of eating raw collagen or not cooking gelatin long enough because I know people who had had issues, and I have had issues with consuming uncooked glycine products. Cook it well and consume in moderation. I usually eat 2 to four homemade gummy squares per day (so 12 - 24 grams of gelatin).

I have definitely experienced the positives and negatives from gelatin in the past. I only eat the stuff because I am not a protein lover and rarely get enough daily protein if I don't eat a few of these squares. They are easy and effective.