I *still* can't get my macros / food sources down in a way that makes me feel healthy - can someone offer a fresh perspective?

BigShoes

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Hi everyone, thank you for viewing.

Intro:
I am still struggling to eat enough food from healthy sources to ensure that all my macros are being met, and that I am avoiding any general immediate (although relatively minor) negative health outcomes. Would anyone be able to help or provide new perspective?

Context:
Protein:
- I consume c. 100g protein per day - approx 400kcal
- around 70g-75g of protein from lean beef (c. 350g-375g of meat, or so)
- I consumer around 20g-25g of beef gelatin daily
- I also consume beef liver / kidney, eggs and oysters semi-regularly

Fat:
- I consume c. 90g of primarily saturated anima fat per day - approx 800kcal
- This is consumed with the animal protein as 20% fat beef mince
- even this may be too much fat - I find that this level of fat consumption gives me a white tongue / coated tongue.

Carbs:
- This is where I am struggling most. I know that carbs are not "bad", and that glucose metabolism is far better for long-term health outcomes (I am not new to Peat's research). But I am struggling to find sources of carbohydrates that I respond well to, feel great for consuming, and don't observe any negative health consequences.
- Based on the above protein and fats: in order to round to approx 2500 kcal, I would need c. 1300kcal from carbohydrates. That is 325g - which I believe is relatively high (although, this is not a bad thing).
- However, most carb sources I consume seem to cause some kind of negative health responses in some way, and I cannot find a balance where there isn't some negative symptom. The symptoms are minor, but noticeable.

Carb Sources I have tried are:
- Orange Juice & Apple Juice - I digest these fine. However, I don't do well with large volumes of liquid per day. Even c. 2 pints of juice per day feels like a bit too much (c. 400kcal)
- Honey - too much makes me feel a little sick. I also believe that it gives me acne on my face and back / shoulders. When I was "carnivore" c. 3 years ago and carbs / sugars were near zero, I got no acne at all.
- Cola - I seem to digest this just fine. However, same problem with the liquid volume as the juice above. To get any significant calories from cola, I would have to consume a high amount. Additionally, I think that cola is damaging my teeth (despite doing my best to send it straight "down the hatch" and not against the teeth) since the pH is c. 2, as opposed to Juice's pH of c. 4.
- Haribo / Gummy Bears - I find this to be a very easy source of sugar. I can consume hundreds of grams per day if left to my own devices :) plus there is an added benefit of extra gelatin. However, the more gummies I consume, I start to notice painful / "burning" bowel movements & looser stools (sorry, TMI). Could it be the waxes / colours?? I know that if this food is burning me on the way out, then it is NOT doing good for my insides, especially when reduction of endotoxin and "leaky gut" is so high on my priorities list.
- Dried fruit e.g. dates and apricots - these seem to be digested well enough. However, they also seem to harm the health of my teeth, and almost certainly give me acne on my face and back / shoulders.
- Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes - both of these make me smell of potatoes, seem to give me acne and can cause some stomach upsets and bloating the next morning - despite cooking them very well.
- White rice - I don't enjoy rice much. Also may be estrogenic.
- Others - I do not consume much dairy / milk, as I don't believe I digest casein very well (major constipation when consuming more than about 20g-40g of dairy protein per day).

In Summary:
None of these above carb sources are completely unworkable. However, I am struggling to consume them in any significant amount to get enough energy every day. I seem to be in a constant balancing act between tooth damage, acne, sluggishness / bloating, painful / burning bowel movements etc. Also, if I were to reduce the fat even further to avoid the white tongue (Which would probably be best) I would have to consume even more carbs to make up the extra energy.

Extra notes:
- Supps: ADEK, Calcium Carbonate to balance phosphorus, experimenting w. B Complex,
- I know this list looks pretty orthorexic, and perhaps it is. But I know these symptoms are very real. I can still cook and enjoy a nice meal, or go to a restaurant on occasion without freaking out. But I have been paying close attention to the above because "what you don't track, you can't measure."

Thanks in advance for any help.

Best wishes.
 

dukesbobby777

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Sep 22, 2020
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Carbs are easily the most difficult macronutrient to get right IMO.

Choices are:

1. Starches
2. Commercially sold fruit juices (99% of which are sold in plastic leaching bottles. Not very ideal if the juice is acidic)
3. Eat fruit (most of which is sprayed with pesticides or just not ripened and/or poor quality). I find most fruits wreck my gut, or just taste really bad.
4. Table sugar (nutritionally devoid)
5. Honey and/or syrups (many of which are allergenic and/or nutritionally devoid)
6. Relying on sugars from milk (finding milk that agrees with you is another game in itself)

And then you start moving out to the more obscure options..
 

DrJ

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@BigShoes burning stools is a bit odd. Are there any other clues like are they pale or loose or foul smelling? All of your symptoms including tooth damage to me would seem primarily gut related.

For me the safest diet is carbs all from fruit which is very nutrient rich to support the carbs and very low fat in case there is something off with the liver or bile production. And also because fats block carb burning. Never fails to elevate my mood and metabolism. At least for a week or so I would not worry so much about protein if I can get the carb burning going. Obviously long term you want protein but for a week or so with lots of fruit i wouldn't think it to be an issue.
 

michael94

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Oct 11, 2015
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Corn Tortillas make other carb sources better for me. Warmed Corn tortillas with my orange juice for example. Im not sure how hard these are to find as I imagine nixtamalized corn would be less common in England - but available in every grocery store just about in the U.S.

I like to use low fat cheese, Light string cheese is usually what I look for.

That might be something to try instead of so much meat and gelatin.
 

Can

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Carb Sources I have tried are:
- Orange Juice & Apple Juice - I digest these fine. However, I don't do well with large volumes of liquid per day. Even c. 2 pints of juice per day feels like a bit too much (c. 400kcal)
- Honey - too much makes me feel a little sick. I also believe that it gives me acne on my face and back / shoulders. When I was "carnivore" c. 3 years ago and carbs / sugars were near zero, I got no acne at all.
- Cola - I seem to digest this just fine. However, same problem with the liquid volume as the juice above. To get any significant calories from cola, I would have to consume a high amount. Additionally, I think that cola is damaging my teeth (despite doing my best to send it straight "down the hatch" and not against the teeth) since the pH is c. 2, as opposed to Juice's pH of c. 4.
- Haribo / Gummy Bears - I find this to be a very easy source of sugar. I can consume hundreds of grams per day if left to my own devices :) plus there is an added benefit of extra gelatin. However, the more gummies I consume, I start to notice painful / "burning" bowel movements & looser stools (sorry, TMI). Could it be the waxes / colours?? I know that if this food is burning me on the way out, then it is NOT doing good for my insides, especially when reduction of endotoxin and "leaky gut" is so high on my priorities list.
- Dried fruit e.g. dates and apricots - these seem to be digested well enough. However, they also seem to harm the health of my teeth, and almost certainly give me acne on my face and back / shoulders.
- Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes - both of these make me smell of potatoes, seem to give me acne and can cause some stomach upsets and bloating the next morning - despite cooking them very well.
- White rice - I don't enjoy rice much. Also may be estrogenic.
- Others - I do not consume much dairy / milk, as I don't believe I digest casein very well (major constipation when consuming more than about 20g-40g of dairy protein per day).

You didn't even mention fruits, with the exception of dried fruits and orange/apple juice - why? I have found that I personally don't do that well on a mostly liquid diet, but do better on a diet with solid foods, including whole fruits like apples, bananas, apricots, figs etc. There is so much variation when it comes to fruit too.

You also didn't mention whether you tried grains. Some people here don't like starchy foods, and less so grains, but in the case of someone trying to up their carb intake and not liking their options, grains are a possibility. Have you tried wholegrain spelt/rye sourdough bread for example?
 
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Can

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3. Eat fruit (most of which is sprayed with pesticides or just not ripened and/or poor quality).
You can always buy organic? Or eat fruits with a thick skin like bananas, they are being sprayed less because insects are less of a problem to them (and you don't eat the outside anyways). There is also a list of 'the dirty dozen and the clean fifteen' - fruits & vegetables that are getting sprayed more or less. So one can either buy ripe & organic, wash the fruits thoroughly (maybe with baking soda), or buy according to that list. Then those problems just vanish.

I find most fruits wreck my gut, or just taste really bad.
Fruits tasting bad? - Not to me, lol.

Them wrecking your gut is a different story - everyone has to figure out what they tolerate best individually. I like and tolerate whole fruits much more than fruit juice for example.
 
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abady

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Eat starches with butter (this gonna give you energy+ make you satisfied for hours) and the rest drink milk with coffee and cocoa powder, you don't need all the animal proteins you are digesting and stop taking calcium carbonate. try a high carb moderate fat low protein diet.
this is my cronometer as an example :
Web_capture_20-8-2022_144313_cronometer.com.jpg
 
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Eat starch, but with plenty of saturated fat whether that be butter or coconut oil, soak grains when necessary, also try sprinkling dextrose on starches as its cultured with amylase. I went on a date a couple of nights ago and ate absolute garbage and had no fallout with just sprinkling a teaspoon of dextrose onto the starchy carbs and of course vitamin e to buffer the fried foods

I also feel pretty mentally drained when i get almost all my carbs from fructose and limit fruit juice to about 2-3 cups a day and fruit to about 2 portions
 
OP
BigShoes

BigShoes

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Hi everyone. Thank you very much for your responses - all offering a very interesting perspective!

@dukesbobby777 totally agree with this comment and your summary - these are the problems I'm facing, because none of them *fully* work for me... as mentioned, no *major* issues, but I just don't feel great with them.

@DrJ sorry, TMI, but the burn feels more like minorly acidic, not as in a "spice"... an acid, not heat / spice. Very little smell, colour is not unusual either. Bear in mind, this only happens with like 300g+ of gummy sweets. As I say, I'm looking for easy and non-damaging ways to make up the c. 1300kcal carb requirement (or more) that don't cause issues - so yes, I have tried 300g-400g gummies (c. 1000-1350kcal) ;)

@michael94 corn can be quite damaging to the digestion though, no?

@Can I must agree somewhat with dukesbobby here RE: fruit. I am not averse to eating it, but difficult to make up an substantial calories with it (100kcal per banana or so? I wouldn't want to eat, for example, 13 bananas a day) - I will give it a try though. And RE: grains, I am coming from a "carnivore" world where grains are very much demonized... whilst that sphere gets a lot of things wrong, I have to still agree with them on most grains. Compounds such as Phytic Acid, Lectins, Saponins, Oxalates, Gluten... I don't think it's good for us.

@abady and @SaltiestSardine - doesn't Peat recommend *against* too much starch? Also I have struggled to enjoy / make up the calories from potatoes, yams, white rice etc. Plus, for a reason that I can't yet explain, I don't digest milk very well - tried A1, A2, Raw, Pasteurized, Jersey, Guernsey etc. etc. - I think it may be the casein but I'm not sure. I have even tried a "raw milk" protocol diet before, which did not go well.

Still a bit stuck.
 

Can

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I must agree somewhat with dukesbobby here RE: fruit. I am not averse to eating it, but difficult to make up an substantial calories with it (100kcal per banana or so? I wouldn't want to eat, for example, 13 bananas a day) - I will give it a try though.
Well, I didn't imply that you should use fruits as your sole carb source. I don't do that either. It would be too much fructose for me, and starches generally keep me satisfied for longer. Was just wondering why you didn't mention them at all, because I do find fruits to be wonderful food.

My breakfast nearly always consists of one Wellant apple, but I also eat a bunch of other foods, like starchy vegetables and grains on a lot of days. I wouldn't want fruits to be my only carb source, but they are an important part for me, in a balanced diet which consists of quite a few different foods. Balance is really key.

Btw, now that I mentioned it, you might also want to try out different variants of the same foods. For example, I was never a fan of apples until I found a farmer who sells these specific kinds of apples (Wellant), and I absolutely cherish them and feel great eating them.

And RE: grains, I am coming from a "carnivore" world where grains are very much demonized... whilst that sphere gets a lot of things wrong, I have to still agree with them on most grains. Compounds such as Phytic Acid, Lectins, Saponins, Oxalates, Gluten... I don't think it's good for us.
First of all, you recognize that it's the background that you are coming from, that has influenced your views. Maybe it is time to let go of some of that conditioning you have about foods such as grains. While the negative aspects about grains that you mentioned are indeed real, you have to realize something: There is no perfect food.

All foods have up- and downsides. You can pick any food you want and analyse it closely, and you will find hundreds (or more, depending on how closely you look) reasons why that food isn't good for you. Vegetables? - Lectins, Oxalates, all kinds of anti-nutrients (plus pesticides). Fruits? - Very little anti-nutrients, but a lot of fructose (which can be good or bad, depending on your view on it and how much you consume), a lot of fiber and sugars (which can feed pathogenic bacteria) and pesticides. Animal foods - little anti-nutrients, but depending on the type of food possibly unfavorable amino acid or mineral balance. Also heavily vulnerable to bad feeding, stress, antibiotic usage etc. Also from a Peatarian perspective, do you really want all that fat? Still need carb sources. Milk - some people react adversely to specific kinds of proteins in there, or to lactose. Eggs - contain quite a bit of pufas for their small size, some don't tolerate egg whites well. Etc etc.

And if you are somewhat knowledgeable about this, you will realize that I was being very superficial still. Instead of picking food groups like I did, you could also pick any individual foods and dissect them and there too will be lots of reasons why they are terrible for you. My point is, there are no perfect foods, only compromises - it's about finding what works for you. Because although there are no perfect foods, our human bodies have the great ability to assimilate all kinds of food, out of evolutionary necessity. You are here today because every single one of your ancestors lived long enough to have, raise and provide for their children, until those did the same. Your body is quite capable of eating non-perfect foods and assimilating their nutrients and their goodness, while leaving the rest be.

Also realize that the preparation methods of foods can mitigate a lot of their downsides. Pesticides can be removed to some degree by washing them off using baking soda in particular. People's sensitivities to proteins in milk or to lactose can be mitigated by picking specific kinds of cheese making or other preparation methods. Nuts and seeds (including grains and legumes) can have their anti-nutrients like phytates reduced by being soaked and sprouted. Other anti-nutrients like lectins or goitrogens can be destroyed by heat. A lot of them get reduced substantially by fermenting - that's why I specifically asked whether you tried sourdough spelt/rye bread yet, because the preparation method of grains can really make a world of a difference. Also, some people that have problems with gluten in wheat, don't have the same problems with gluten from rye, spelt or other old grains.

Another thing to consider is that sometimes things that are negative in large, can be beneficial in small amounts. I already alluded to this with fructose - a lot might be taxing for the liver, but a moderate amount can be great for blood sugar control. As far as I know, there are even studies showing that small amounts of phytates or gluten can be beneficial, because they feed microbes in the gut which digest and metabolize them into beneficial things. Don't ask me for the specific studies on this though, I wouldn't be able to provide them.

Now that doesn't mean that all things are equally good for you. Depending on (possibly) your individual ancestry, your current health situation etc, certain foods will work better for you than others. This all depends on your own personal situation, and it's probably impossible to give you the information you need through a computer screen on a forum in the internet. You have to try around and find what works for you. I wouldn't exclude foods like grains just because you find them problematic intellectually, based on things you learned - it's best to ignore what we know sometimes, and try out things as if we have not heard anything about them before, to get pure, unadulterated experiential feedback of how our body handles these things.
 
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Nixtamalized corn (masa harina) including the corn flour for making corn polenta, and tortillas made traditionally, are very good for me. I add some butter if I’m concerned about lowering protein, or cheese (a slice or two) if I don’t mind the extra protein. Has been working very very well for me.
 

abady

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Hi everyone. Thank you very much for your responses - all offering a very interesting perspective!

@dukesbobby777 totally agree with this comment and your summary - these are the problems I'm facing, because none of them *fully* work for me... as mentioned, no *major* issues, but I just don't feel great with them.

@DrJ sorry, TMI, but the burn feels more like minorly acidic, not as in a "spice"... an acid, not heat / spice. Very little smell, colour is not unusual either. Bear in mind, this only happens with like 300g+ of gummy sweets. As I say, I'm looking for easy and non-damaging ways to make up the c. 1300kcal carb requirement (or more) that don't cause issues - so yes, I have tried 300g-400g gummies (c. 1000-1350kcal) ;)

@michael94 corn can be quite damaging to the digestion though, no?

@Can I must agree somewhat with dukesbobby here RE: fruit. I am not averse to eating it, but difficult to make up an substantial calories with it (100kcal per banana or so? I wouldn't want to eat, for example, 13 bananas a day) - I will give it a try though. And RE: grains, I am coming from a "carnivore" world where grains are very much demonized... whilst that sphere gets a lot of things wrong, I have to still agree with them on most grains. Compounds such as Phytic Acid, Lectins, Saponins, Oxalates, Gluten... I don't think it's good for us.

@abady and @SaltiestSardine - doesn't Peat recommend *against* too much starch? Also I have struggled to enjoy / make up the calories from potatoes, yams, white rice etc. Plus, for a reason that I can't yet explain, I don't digest milk very well - tried A1, A2, Raw, Pasteurized, Jersey, Guernsey etc. etc. - I think it may be the casein but I'm not sure. I have even tried a "raw milk" protocol diet before, which did not go well.

Still a bit stuck.
ray says its fine if you eat starches but you need to cook them with butter.
 
P

Peatness

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Try organic grapes if you can find them - (Sainsburys, Tesco, Waitrose)

Grape juice too but I've never seen organic grape juice in the UK
 

michael94

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Oct 11, 2015
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Hi everyone. Thank you very much for your responses - all offering a very interesting perspective!

@dukesbobby777 totally agree with this comment and your summary - these are the problems I'm facing, because none of them *fully* work for me... as mentioned, no *major* issues, but I just don't feel great with them.

@DrJ sorry, TMI, but the burn feels more like minorly acidic, not as in a "spice"... an acid, not heat / spice. Very little smell, colour is not unusual either. Bear in mind, this only happens with like 300g+ of gummy sweets. As I say, I'm looking for easy and non-damaging ways to make up the c. 1300kcal carb requirement (or more) that don't cause issues - so yes, I have tried 300g-400g gummies (c. 1000-1350kcal) ;)

@michael94 corn can be quite damaging to the digestion though, no?

@Can I must agree somewhat with dukesbobby here RE: fruit. I am not averse to eating it, but difficult to make up an substantial calories with it (100kcal per banana or so? I wouldn't want to eat, for example, 13 bananas a day) - I will give it a try though. And RE: grains, I am coming from a "carnivore" world where grains are very much demonized... whilst that sphere gets a lot of things wrong, I have to still agree with them on most grains. Compounds such as Phytic Acid, Lectins, Saponins, Oxalates, Gluten... I don't think it's good for us.

@abady and @SaltiestSardine - doesn't Peat recommend *against* too much starch? Also I have struggled to enjoy / make up the calories from potatoes, yams, white rice etc. Plus, for a reason that I can't yet explain, I don't digest milk very well - tried A1, A2, Raw, Pasteurized, Jersey, Guernsey etc. etc. - I think it may be the casein but I'm not sure. I have even tried a "raw milk" protocol diet before, which did not go well.

Still a bit stuck.
Tortillas are Nixtamalized Corn
 

PeskyPeater

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as you are over 30 you may decrease your protein intake, increasing your metabolic rate.

soluble fiber and starches give you problems, the microbiome diversity is not oke. Bacterie spores of bacillus or coagulans help improve enzyme expression and digestion. acts as antibacterial and reduce bloating.

problems with liquid and slow thyroid is that, they result in hydrogen gas in places in the intestine that has a slow motility, causing bloating. cascara helps to move things along. together with a carrot salad and some wheat bran or oatbran.

try to consume dairy that is predigested like kefir, greek yogurt ,cheese, else supplement calcium to reduce endotoxin absorption. Aspirin helpt to decrease systemic effects of endotoxin that gets through the gut.

If you experience much IBS symptoms try losartan or candesartan or olive leaf extract with vitamin E mixed tocopherols with the bacteria spores.
 

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